cglaeser

Uncle. Actually, this discussion has been helpful for me. Industry standards for specifying light output have existed before Ansel Adams used his first Brownie. I've long been puzzled why there were no such standard specifications for IR illuminators in the security industry. I now have a much better understanding as to why. Best, Christopher

Regarding "spot on", you never mentioned a camera. It's apparent from your reply that we are talking about two entirely different topics. I'm talking about matching cameras and IR illuminators, which is not possible without mentioning, um, a camera. Consider the fact that sensor sensitivity is improving each design cycle. That would mean that if these charts are spot on today, they will be off by a factor of 2 in 18 to 36 months. I think you need to be a photographer to appreciate the specifications to which I'm referring. Best, Christopher

Beam pattern charts are helpful in a couple of ways. First, it's an easy way to present the coverage area of a beam pattern at a given distance, and second, it's an easy way to present the difference in effective distance relative to each beam pattern. It's worth noting that both of these concepts can be presented independent of the manufacturer. However, the actual distances in these charts are arbitrary, and each manufacturer just picks an arbitrary base distance for a given output, which is completely independent of distances reported by any other manufacturer. Which is to say, these charts can not be used to determine if an illuminator from one manufacturer will have more reach than an illuminator from another manufacturer, or if a particular illuminator is the best match for a particular security camera. In contrast, photographers use guide numbers, which is an industry standard for specifying the power output of the flash. This allows photographers to purchase flash heads from any manufacturer and know in advance what the exposure will be at a given distance. I repeat. Manufacturer specifications do not provide the information you need to select the best IR illuminator for a particular security camera. Selecting the best match requires trial and error and experience. Best, Christopher

Yes, well, the rubber meets the road when you actually place an order. Quality IR Illuminators are not cheap, and the cost increases with power output. If you purchase an IR Illuminator that is either under powered or over powered for the intended use, that is money wasted. Currently, installer experience is the only reliable method for ensuring the right model is selected. Best, Christopher

Samsung has announced several new cameras using the new W5 chipset. The improved lux specifications look compelling. One of the new cameras is the SCP-2120 12x PTZ. Unfortunately, this mini dome PTZ is indoor. Does anyone know if Samsung plans to introduce an IP66 outdoor version with similar specifications? Best, Christopher

+1 Faster shutter speed also reduces the effective distance that moving objects can move during image capture, thus reducing motion blur. Thus, slower shutter speed can be useful in low light, but at the expense of increased motion blur. Best, Christopher

20% of an unknown is still an unknown. I disagree. The information in this chart is of little use in making an actual model selection and purchase of an IR illuminator with full confidence that the subjects will be properly exposed at a given distance. In photography, when selecting a film or a lens or a flash for a camera, there are industry specifications (e.g. ISO, guide number, etc) that make it easy to get perfect exposure. There is no such industry standard for IR illuminators, and proper exposure is largely done using the installer's experience and/or the experiences of others. Best, Christopher

No, not really. Suppose you wanted to illuminate a subject at 50'. Would you need a RayMAX 25, 50, or 100? That chart does not help with real world questions. Photography solved this problem many years ago. You can mix and match film, lenses, and lighting from different manufacturers and set shutter speed, aperture, and other settings, and expect to get perfect exposure. Not so in the security industry. You can't design the lighting based on numbers and know in advance the exposure will be spot on. You have to ask others for their experiences, or try it yourself and see if it works. Best, Christopher

About a year ago I researched this same topic. I contacted technical support at several security camera and IR manufacturers, and asked questions and reviewed posts on this other other forums. I spent hours on the phone researching this. Here's the bottom line. There are virtually no specifications that are of much help regarding power requirements and effective ranges. In photography, we know precisely how a camera and lens and lighting will perform, but in CCTV, it's pretty much left to experience. For example, I have an Axis 223m in poorly lit 50' driveway. No one could tell me which product would be required to see effectively to the end of the driveway. I had to purchase a RayMAX 50 and complete the install to determine that it was an adequate solution. If someone has experience with the particular camera and/or IR, great. Ask them questions. But data sheets are pretty much useless in this regard. Best, Christopher

I think end user price is $150 per license. Best, Christopher

You might also consider the relatively new Panasonic 502. Best, Christopher

+1 Best, Christopher

Fair enough. My point is that the statement, "It all comes down to pixels on target" is grossly misleading, particularly for the DIYers that visit this forum. There is far more to surveillance system design than pixel count. If a DIY selects a camera based solely on the number of pixels on a license plate at some distance, the probability that the system will work is pretty much zero. Best, Christopher

If you can't promote a position based on merit, switch to personal attack devoid of any content relevant to the topic. Best, Christopher

Suuweet. Thanks! Best, Christopher

What do you mean by optimal response? In particular, is it too dark at night for the color sensor to function? If so, then the color sensor has more detail during the day, and the b/w sensor has more detail at night. Best, Christopher

As a long-time participant on dpreview.com, I've read many confused comments on sensors, lenses, and FOV. This is yet another example that hurts my brain trying to decipher. Clearer image around the edges? Ouch! Best, Christopher

There is too much movement in the branch and leaves. This is a simple problem in need of a simple solution. Post record is not some esoteric or complex feature. Many cameras support post record. exacq needs to implement post record in the next release. Best, Christopher

I can not use a motion window to cover a tree branch that is on one side of the field of view because the constant wind would essentially mean continuous recording. The tree branch is sparse, so it's easy to see someone behind it. If someone walks left to right, the pre-record will record them while they walk from behind the tree branch and through the field of view. However, when someone walks right to left, there is no post-record, so the recording stops as soon as they leave the main motion window. Best, Christopher

It does not all come down to pixels on target. There are other factors that must be considered, such as low light performance. 3 mp is worthless if it's too dark to see an image on the monitor. Good CCTV system design requires an understanding of issues beyond simple pixel count. Best, Christopher

Try the free demo. It has all the features of the licensed version but is limited to one camera at a time. I used the demo for several weeks and then decided to purchase the licensed version. Best, Christopher

Perhaps you already know this, but just so you are aware, for a given f stop range, a 35x zoom for a 1/2" sensor is considerably larger than required for a 1/4" sensor. That's why most 35x PTZ cameras are 1/4". And, considerably larger means a lot more money, again, assuming same f stop range, quality of glass, etc. Best, Christopher

There are other considerations for detail in addition to mp. A black underexposed image will never have sufficient detail, no matter how many mp. You also need to consider the low-light lux performance. More pixels do not come for free. Everything else equal, more pixels means smaller pixels, and smaller pixels means fewer photons are collected. Camera design has many trade-offs. Best, Christopher

For a given sensor size, fewer pixels means larger pixels. Larger pixels collect more photons, which means better low-light performance. You can see more detail in a properly exposed 1.3 mp image than a black underexposed 3 mp image. In addition, Mobotix uses a color sensor for day and b/w sensor for night, which further enhances the low-light performance at night. Best, Christopher

Did you complete the install of the 4160? Best, Christopher