SpyGuy10

I've been hearing a lot of good things about Avigilon, although all in the high-end market. Do they have any cameras that are competitve with CNB's cameras? Also, does Avigilon offer a hybrid IP cam (analog and IP outputs)? That's a requirement for my client. How does Avigilon handle NVR software licensing?

I'm rather surprised that no one here has even tried CNB's NVR software. Am I to assume that it's too low-end? Or that it's simply "junk"?

Once again, thanks to all for the informative responses. So, out of curiosity, since the data load is dependant on the scene lighting and activity (among other things), how exactly does one go about planning an IP CCTV system so that the network is not overloaded? Does everyone just specify CBR cameras, or is there more involved? Is there an online guide or reference (theory and/or practice) that I can read on this subject?

Thanks for the advice. Those look perfect for our application and the price is right too!

Thanks for the lead. I looked at their web site and it appears to be capable of doing what we want. I'm a little concerned about the lack of documentation on their site, as well as the lack of contact information for the company. But if I can't find a more professional application, we might just use this.

Thanks for the advice. I seriously doubt it would affect any airport operations here. This is a small private airport with uncontrolled airspace: no tower and no precision instrument approaches (i.e., VFR only). Not even automatic weather reporting, although we may add AWOS in the future. Nevertheless, I will confirm with FAA prior to proceeding with any installation.

If a new build, you might consider spec'ing the install of coax and UTP even if you use neither (e.g., if you go with the laser system). That way there are future options if needed. I have no affilliation with the manufacterer or this distributor; I just did a quick web search out of curiousity. It looks like the 300m version is available for less than $1,000. So I would expect the 100m version to sell for less than that. You may have a point about qualified installers, although I did watch an installation video on the manufacturer's web site and it looked pretty simple: mount the transmitter on the bottom of the car, mount the receiver at the bottom of the shaft, plumb and center the receiver in the laser beam, level, and test. You may want to contact the manufacturer to see if they have any recommended installers in your area. For a job of your size, and considering that their system may be fairly new and they might still be trying to build market share, they may be willing to work out a deal with you that includes installation in exchange for promoting your install in their marketing materials.

^^^ This solution would also use an analog camera and encoder. The only difference is that the physical cabling between the elevator car and the building's CCTV system would be replaced by the laser transmitter/receiver set. If available signal cabling is not already installed in the car's travelling cable harness, then adding it would be very expensive for a 21 story building from what I've read (multiplied by 14 cars!). Plus, you do have to consider maintenance for those cables.

This laser transmitter/receiver system looks intriguing: http://www.qccess.com/air100/what.html It has a 100m range (up to 25 stories). There is also a 300m version. The only downside for your application is that it appears to be analog only. So that will limit your resolution and you'll have to add an encoder on the receiver in order to tie into your NVR system.

Looking for an IP pinhole board cam to go into a DoorKing access control keypad. It doesn't need to be megapixel.

Thanks for the info. I do know that DoorKing sells cameras for their entry dialers, but like all DoorKing products, they are very expensive: Door King 1812-147 CCTV Color Camera Kit ($450 ~ $700) Door King 1812-144 CCTV B/W Camera Kit ($450 ~ $520) Those prices are based on a quick web search, but are representative of the market. I know that when DoorKing sells, for example, their DoorKing-branded AWID access cards, the price mark-up is VERY steep. I've seen the video output of one of DoorKing's previous-generation B/W entry dialer cams (model #1812-040), and it was not very impressive (I don't know how the newer-generation cameras look). So I was thinking of putting together my own and at least matching, if not surpassing, the capabilities of DoorKing's cams. I believe I could buy a pinhole camera and an encoder for the same price as the DoorKing. I was just hoping that I could get an IP pinhole camera and bypass theneed for an encoder.

Sorry, I forgot to provide a link... http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=1177 And a photo... And some specs... [Camera] Signal System: Progressive image processing Scaning System: 16:9 Progressive Image Sensor: 1/3" Progeressive CMOS Sensor Sync. System: Internal Effective Pixels Number: 1920(H) x 1080(V) [2.0 Megapixels] Horizontal Resolution: 1100 TV Lines Video Output Level: Select NTSC/PAL 1.0Vp-p (BNC 75?, composite) Lens Mount: CS Mount Day & Night System: ICR (CDS Type) Min. Illumination: 1Lux (Color), 0.1Lux (B/W), 0.05Lux (B/W, DSS On) Back Light Compensation: On/Off Flickerless: On/Off White Balance: Auto/Manual Exposure: Auto/Manual Function: Color, B/W Elec. Shutter Speed: NTSC : 1/7.5~1/8,000 (21 Step) [Video / Audio] Compression: H.264 / MJPEG Frame Rate: Dual Mode : H.264(30fps) / MJPEG(30fps) Resolution: Full HD(1920x1080), SXGA(1280x1024), 720P(1280x720), D1(720x480/720x576), VGA(640x480), CIF(352x240/352x288) Audio: Two-way (full duplex / ADPCM G.726) [Network] Protocol: IPv4, HTTP, TCP, RTSP, RTP, RTCP, UDP, SMTP, FTP, ICMP, DHCP, UPnP, Bonjour, ARP, DNS, DynDNS Supported DDNS: 1.CNB DDNS 2.DynDNS.org 3.Reference code with SDK LAN Interface: Ethernet 10/100 Base-T (RJ-45 Type) Suppot PoE: Standard IEEE 802.3af supported [security] Access Level Setup: Multiple user access levels with password protection Network Security: IP Filtering [Alarm and Event Managerment] Image Detection: Motion detection (Select 3 Regions - each area) Sensor Detection: Sensor In, Scheduling, Alarm out After Event Process: JPEG Image upload over FTP server / SMTP (E-mail server) [Applications] Browser: Internet Explorer 6.0 or higher Monitoring Application: XNVR, CNB CMS and Utility (IP-Installer, etc) [Maintenance] System Upgrade: Firmware upgrade over HTTP PTZ control (RS-485): PTZ Protocol Service (User define update) [Mechanical] Operating Temperature: 0°C ~ 40°C Power: DC 12V Max. 5W Dimensions/Weight(Net): 71(W) x 65(H) x 143.9(D)mm, Approx. 366g

Feedback would be appreciated!

A homeowner was doing some rennovation construction and needed to relocate a post that supported an outdoor PTZ dome camera and IR illuminator. The camera is a Panasonic WV-CS554 and it was working prior to this incident. The camera was disconnected (coax & power/ptz) and removed from the post (as was the illuminator) so not to be damaged when the post was dug out of the ground. The camera was stored inside the house. After the construction was completed, the camera was re-mounted on the post and reconnected to the cables. But now it doesn't work. When connected to power, the PTZ mechanism makes a 360-deg rotation and you can hear the iris click open, but the camera is not producing a usable image: it just outputs a dull solid green screen with some stationary raster lines. To ensure it wasn't a problem with the coax cable, the signal was tested at the camera output lead using a portable display. The same green video was observed. Voltage was also checked at the camera connection power leads and is good. We cannot imagine how this camera could have failed while un-powered in storage. It certainly wasn't dropped or mishandled. Any ideas what the problem might be?

That's a shame. Any recommendations for a decent color analog board camera with pinhole lens?

I have a Panasonic lens salvaged off a box camera that failed. The lens is a WV-LZ81/6A. It is a powered-zoom lens with a CS mount, 8.5-51mm, F1.2. I'd like to find a box cam that I can use with this lens. The lens uses a "video drive" signal to control the auto iris, and that eliminates cameras that only offer a "DC drive" auto-iris signal. I called CNB and all of their box cams are DC drive only. So I'm seeking recommendations. Thanks!

Thanks Horizon, I think you may have nailed it. I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but as soon as I started to read your analysis, I got that "Ah ha, yes now it makes sense!" feeling. I actually had an experience with bad caps in a Samsung LCD computer monitor a while back. The display would work fine as long as I left it running. But as soon as I powered it off, it wouldn't work again until it had gone through a power-on recovery period. The older the caps got, the longer that recovery period lasted. I finally replaced the caps and now it works like new. Considering my past experience, I'm kind of kicking myself at the moment for not making the connection. But I had been worried that perhaps one of the family's young children or dogs might have knocked it around while it was being stored in the house. So I guess my mind was fixated on that possibility.

I understand about the price/features trade-off. Thanks for pointing out that it probably doesn't have IR capability (I'll confirm the next time I talk with the CNB rep). As it turns out, this camera is not compatible with the Panasonic lens I took off the defective cam, because the lens uses video drive for the auto-iris, whereas the CNB cam uses DC drive for auto-iris control. So I'm not looking for a box camera that will work with the existing lens (Panasonic WV-LZ81/6A with CS mount and video-drive auto-iris). Any recommendations?

A homeowner in a high-end home has an older analog CCTV system that was installed by the previous owners. The box camera at the front gate failed when a nest of fire ants decided to make their home inside the camera body. The cam is primarily used to identify people wishing to enter the estate (although it's mounted high on a post looking down, so it's mostly just identifying the top of the car). Recently, a truck backed into the front gate and severly damaged the gate; this happened while the cam was non-op so no one was caught and the homeowner's ate the cost of the repairs. The wife wants high-res to identify perps and catch license plates (although this would probably also require changing the position of the cam or adding a second cam). The husband is more interested in spending as little as possible and was content with the (poor) resolution of the old B/W cam that died. Originally, I was planning on replacing the cam with a CNB BBN-24F: a nice MonaLisa analog box cam. The reason for staying analog was because the husband does not want to replace the existing coax with Cat-5, even though he is finally coming around on the idea of replacing their antiquated DVR system (that is so complex, no one in the home knows how to operate it) with a modern PC software-based DVR. But all the cabling is in conduit, so it really wouldn't be that expensive to upgrade to IP, and she may change his mind in the future. With that in mind, I'm looking for a relatively low-cost hybrid megapixel box camera. That way I can connect it now to their existing analog system, while allowing an upgrade path to true megapixel IP system later on. So I'm looking at the CNB IGP1030 Hybrid IP Megapixel Box Cam. It's only 1.3 megapixel, but then again it's not outrageously expensive either. Any thoughts or recommendations?

So if the lens tests good and we decide to keep it, can you recommend some good box cameras (in the $100 to $300 price range) that would work with the video drive auto-iris? I'd primarily be interested in analog or hybrid, but would like to see what IP cams are available as well. Thanks!

I am replacing a Panasonic analog box camera that failed due to a fire ant infestation within the camera body. As far as I know, the CS-mount lens (model: WV-LZ81/6A) is still functional, although I don't have another camera to test it. This appears to be a quality lens and I see no reason to replace it, even if I upgrade the cam body to a megapixel hybrid IP/analog camera. My concern is whether the auto-iris lens connection will be compatible with the new camera. I would have thought that this would be an industry standard, but I'm not so sure. Part of the problem is I cannot find any documentation for this Panasonic lens that states what the signal wires are or how to identify them. When I search Panasonic's web support, I can only find manuals (well, actually just two page scans) for their WV-LZ81/10 or WV-LZ83/6. Those would probably be close enough, but neither document has the needed information: both documents simply state: How to install the automatic iris zoom lens (1) Make sure that the lens selection switch is set to DC position (for same other models, set the lens selection switch (LENS, STD/OPTION) to STD position). [Note: They are referring to a switch on the back of the camera body, not on the lens itself.] In another Panasonic document (a spec sheet for one of their cameras), it shows a list of lenses as optional accessories. The list includes: - WV-LZ81/6A (NTSC) - WV-LZ81/6 (PAL) Why would the camera's video format affect the lens? The following provides a clue. In an operation manual for a Panasonic box camera, it states: Installation of Auto Iris Lens Connector Install the lens connector when using a video drive ALC lens. (1) Cut the iris control cable at the edge of the lens connector to remove the existing lense connector and then remove the outer cable cover as shown in the diagram below. The pin assignment of the lens connector is as follows: Pin 1: Power source; +9V DC, 50mA max. Pin 2: Not used Pin 3: Video signal; 1.3 V[p-p]/40 kOhms Pin 4: Shield, ground (2) After connection, assemble the lens connector. So apparently the lens takes the video signal and uses that to control the auto iris (explaining why there are two versions of the lens: one for NTSC and one for PAL). But the instructions give no clue as to how to identify the wires inside the lens cable for connecting to the pins. At this point I'm still hoping that all lenses and camera bodies adhere to some industry pin-out standard. (But then why would the Panasonic camera manual give instructions to cut off the old connector and solder on a new one?) Next I looked at the manual for the CNB IGP1030 hybrid box camera body (which I'm considering as a replacement). This shows the auto-iris connection pin assignment as: Pin 1: Damping coil (-) Pin 2: Damping coil (+) Pin 3: Drive coil (+) Pin 4: Drive coil (-) Clearly, this is very different from the pin-outs for the Panasonic camera. I can always remove the existing connector on the lens, change the wire-to-pin connections, and put on new connector. But that won't help if the signals are not compatible. Any advice on how to make this old Panasonic lens work with the new CNB camera? Or will we have to purchase a new lens?

Thanks Matt for raising me up out of my confusion. So I guess the next step is to have the lens tested to make sure it's fully functional before basing a camera purchase decision on it. Or would you recommend just buying a new lens? It seems a shame to scrap all this nice glass, but if it severly limits the choice of cameras and/or features (or forces the purchase of a significantly more expensive camera), then it may not be worth keeping.

I doubt the price point for CCTV cameras will change that significantly in a couple of years. Digital cameras, web cams, and cell phones are all high-volume consumer products that have strong market forces to drive the technology up and the prices down. CCTV cameras are still a niche product. True, the technology is improving and the prices are dropping, but no where near the pace of the other products mentioned. If it were me, I'd simply upgrade the entire system to IP with NVR software. But it's not me so I have to be sensitive to the client's wishes and budget. Based on the husband's desire to do this economically, I doubt I'd get much traction trying to convince him to buy a new IP camera in a "year or two" after he just paid for a new analog camera now. The point of the hybrid is that it allows and immediate in-line replacement for their existing analog system, while providing an upgrade path to IP if they ever commit to changing out the cabling. Yes, but that would necessitate replacing the cable to the front gate, something the husband has said he doesn't want to do. Of course the wife may override that decision if she were to see the differences between analog and IP, but I don't want to start a fight either. That would also take longer to implement and they want to get the camera back online ASAP. True, although I don't think CNB makes anything that would be considered "poo", and would not lump them in with the cheap junk sold on Ebay or elsewhere. I looked at the specs and, certainly the 1 Lux minimum illumination is not at all competitive with their analog box cameras (the CNB BBN-24F has a listed min illumination rating of 0.000025 Lux). But where did you see that the IGP1030 cannot use IR illuminators?

You can read the specs for the camera at CNB's web site: http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=1078 I don't know anything about the "Hybrid DVR; But what's really amazing about this cam is that on CNB's site, they show the cam working with a software app "CNB XNET CMS/NVR". I just spoke with CNB's tech support and that software is included with the cam (actually, it's available as a free download from their web site). The software has 16 channels. As for price, I have not yet contacted any distributors. But a quick web search shows the cam selling in the $270 to $330 range.

True, but even a human test is somewhat subjective. Besides having to take into account the various angles at which a person's face can be viewed, you must also consider that the human brain must perform very complex analysis in order to recognize a face, and that analysis is influenced by a number of factors. Obviously, if the test subject is known to the viewer, then that subject will be MUCH more readily, positively, and quickly identified than if the subject is a total stranger. Also, it is well-known (at least among those whom are intellectually honest) that people are better able to identify members of their same race. While I agree that human subject testing is very useful for comparing CCTV systems, it is not as objective as using a test target. I think license plates tend to provide a useful metric, at least for outdoor cams, as they are standard in size and composition (within a country) and they are universally available.