SpyGuy10

Care to elaborate on the GeoVision flaws? Have you tested or compared Nuuo to GeoVision?

So the Intellicam has HDMI output and the XTS Video unit does not? Then they are not exactly the same unit, right? If so, that begs the question: What other differences are there between the units? Perhaps the XTS Video DVR uses a lesser quality encoder or compression chipset. I really don't know, but it seems to me that even if the two systems are made by the same Korean manufacturer and uses the same chassis, faceplate, and controls, that doesn't mean they are identical units internally. If the Intellicam unit has HDMI output and the XTS Video does not, that would seem to bear out my argument. It's possible that the manufacturer makes one system to Intellicam's specs, and a similar-looking -- but different system -- to XTS Video's specs. I'm not trying to promote Intellicam. I have no affilation with the company other than being an interested possible customer. I'm just trying to get educated so I can make an informed buying decision. And to do that, we need to compare apples-to-apples and clear up any confusion or misconceptions.

Here are some images I captured from the Gen IV (Intellicam) live-feed demo of their G4-XLAHD: These are all from real-time streaming video feeds at CIF resolution, 30 fps. Click each image to see at the full resolution as captured on my PC. Unfortunately, no one was walking through their lobby at the time I captured these, but I have seen people in the feed in the past and you can recognize facial features, etc. I'm not suggesting that CIF is as good as 4CIF or D1; obviously it cannot be at only half the resolution. But as I said earlier, I was surpised at the clarity of these CIF images, even expanded to a single full-frame. And I believe these are the same quality as recorded because they would have to compress with H.264 to stream these feeds over the Internet. Rory, is this what you consider "blocky"? Or did you see something else on your demo?

Which model was that?

According to the specs for the G4-XLAHD, it will record two channels at 4CIF/30fps (with the remaining 8-channels at CIF/30fps), or all 16-channels at 4CIF/6fps. I haven't seen the playback quality so I can't judge how the H.264 compression affects the recorded video. But I believe the system streams H.264 compressed video over the Internet, so the quality of the live-feed demo should be the same as what the system would record. Actually, the CIF resolution doesn't look bad expanded either. But then, I don't have a 4CIF feed to compare it to. Of course I know that at double the resolution, the 4CIF will look much better. But I was actually surprised at the clarity of the CIF video on their live-feed. I'll post some screen shots from their demo live-feed. I am reviewing the Nuuo unit and I like what I see so far in terms of specs. But it is a considerably more costly solution, given that it's $1,000 for an 8-channel card, not including the cost of the PC. It will be a hard sell to management to convince them to pony up more money for less channels. If I go with the Nuuo DVR card, will I need anything else besides the PC to build the DVR part of the system? Is server and client software already included? Can someone tell me what it costs to add IP camera licensing to it for a hybrid system (for future upgrade/expansion)?

Sorry, I thought it was clear I was just talking about the DVR/PC-based monitoring/recording part of the system. All cameras, cables, labor, etc. are already expensed and not part of the $1,000 budget. As for the resolution/frame rate/number of channels, it should be comparable to what we'd get from the G4-XLA16HD from Gen IV (since that's the unit we're considering purchasing, and thus the topic of this thread). The specs on the G4-XLA16HD are: 16-ch analog video input CIF @ 30 fps (on all 16 channels) Option to record 4CIF @ 30fps (on 2 of the 16 channels; the 14 other channels would be CIF @ 30 fps) Option to record 4CIF @ 6 6fps (on all 16 channels) H.264 hardware compression Pentaplex operation Monitoring/control/configuration over the Internet To be fair, the $1,000 really should include the cost of a PC (for a PC-based system). After all, even if we have a PC, it's still part of the cost of the system (and a standalone DVR doesn't need a server PC). But I'll also consider recommendations for a PC-based system that doesn't include the cost of the PC in $1,000 budget. Also, is there a consensus on the added value of 4CIF versus CIF? I saw Gen IV's live demo of 4 cams at CIF resolution and the images were surprisingly clear. Would we really need more than 2 channels of 4CIF @ 30 fps? If so, then I would consider an 8-channel solution, provided that the resolution on all 8 channels are 4CIF or D1 @ 30 fps.

My mistake. Drop the word "best". Better yet, let me re-phrase... If a client came to you with $1,000 for a DVR or PC-based monitoring system, which system would you recommend?

Ok, so what's the best DVR, NVR, or PC-based solution for $1,000?

That's a good argument. But it looks to me that it's still hard to beat the price point of a dedicated DVR. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise... But at $900 just to license 6 channels of Exacq VMS (and that's not including the cost of the hardware), that 16-ch DVR for $896 is starting to look pretty good.

If they're not an authorized dealer, how are they getting the sofware to sell? Are you suggesting that they are selling pirated software? In any case, how is an end-user to know what the MSRP is, or whether or not that reseller is an authorized dealer? If exacq has a gripe, they would need to take it out on the dealer, not on the end-user. Unless exacq can prove that an end-user knowingly purchased illegal software, then they would have to support the end-user's purchase. Otherwise they'd be setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

So Exacq will punish the end-user by not supporting the software after it had been legitimately purchsed from an authorized dealer because that dealer had a $10 off sale? Nice.

Please clarify. So the licensing only allows you to connect/record/monitor one cam per channel? If so, then that's a very expensive solution. That would mean if you wanted the equivalent of a 16-ch dedicated DVR, you'd have to pay $2,224 in licensing fees! Is the $25 annual upgrade fee per channel also? I was actually thinking about going with the Exacq solution, but not at $140-$150 per channel!

server/client specs I don't know what you mean by that answer, but the requirement I quoted was for the server's processor, not the client's. Client requirements are "Intel® Celeron® Processor 420 at 1.6 GHz or greater" (Windows). But don't you need the Q7404 to get quality H.264 compression / full frame rate / D1 resolution encoding? Are there lesser-priced encoders that produce similar quality? http://www.midwestsurveillance.com/exacq-evip01-p/evip-01.htm?gclid=CMzYpquyy6ECFRmjagodrA5VfAThey're listing it on sale for $10 off. (I hope I'm not getting them in trouble by posting this here.) Anyway, I still don't know what they mean by "1-Channel" on the software. Can you explain?

If the Atom works fine, then why do the requirements for the Exacq VMS software specify that the server have an "Intel® Dual Core Pentium E2160, 1.8 GHz or greater"? Ok, I just looked at the exacqVision EL and discovered it includes 16 analog inputs. So that means it's more than just a "server"; it's also an analog video encoder. So I guess $3,000 is not too bad a price considering an Axis Q7404 4-ch encoder costs $1,000. Still, I think a better option would be to build your own system based on the Exacq VMS software as you suggested. Yep, I was searching around and came up with those same prices. That encoder is expensive! If starting with a new system, then I think it would be better to skip the encoder and just go with IP-based cameras. On the other hand, I really like the specs of the CNB VBM-24VF MonaLisa and V1167NVF WDR cameras. But damn, $1,000 for just 4-channels? So what IP cams are in the same performance and price class as the CNB cams? Also, the best price I found for the VMS Software was $139. But it was listed as "VMS Software 1-Channel". So does that mean you can only monitor one camera? How much does it cost to add additional channels?

I know power supplies are not as sexy to discuss compared to new cam technology, but still an important part of the CCTV system. I'll be installing CNB dome cameras which are dual-voltage rated: 24VAC/12VDC. I was planning on going with 24VAC to minimize voltage drop along the siamese RG59/18ga cable. Any reason to use 12VDC instead? I don't think the CNB cameras (VBN-24VF or VCN-24VF) come with any power supplies. Can anyone confirm that? But even if they do, I would like to install a power distribution panel for the cams. I want surge protection and RF noise filtering, and individual fuses or circuit breakers on each output channel. So any recommendations for a 8-ch or 16-ch 24VAC power distibution panel?

An Intel Atom server? Now that's an oxymoron! The Atom processor was designed specifically for netbooks and other low-power (and lower-performance) mobile internet devices. I honestly cannot imagine how a company can justify designing (and pricing) a $3,000 "server" based on a processor intended for low-cost/low-performance consumer netbooks. I think the low-power "green" marketing is just a gimick to justify putting an underpowered processor into an overpriced "server". Is there really anything special about the exacqVision EL? Or is it basically just a dedicated rackmounted PC appliance? If so, then for what it is, the processor should be at least desktop grade, or the price should be substantially less. So I assume the Exacq software can perform on any standard desktop PC running WinXP, Vista, or Win7? If so, why would anyone shell out $3,000 for the exacqVision EL? If it's an enterprise rackmount system you're looking for, you could buy a 1U rack-mounted Dell PowerEdge R200 with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, 2GB RAM, and dual 160GB hard drives for $550. But I am intrigued by the use of using a PC-based software solution over a dedicated DVR. So... 1. So how much does the Exacq software license cost? Is it a one-time purchase or a annual fee? 2. How much does an Axis Q7404 4-channel encoder cost?

Starting at US$2,250 without any cams? Ouch!

Vigil appears to be a software-based solution designed to run on a server/client network. And I'm guessing it's expensive, even before you shell out for the server. And if using with analog cameras, then you will need a digital network encoder for the video streams, right?

I think you mean the Q7404. But all that does is convert your analog video stream into an IP-based encoded video stream. You still need some kind of recorder to capture, manage, and playback the encoded video, right? So would that be a dedicated unit, a PC add-in card (hardware), or just PC-based software? I took a quick look at Exacq and I'm guessing it's a software solution for managing the encoded video (i.e., a software "DVR"). Is that correct? But it appears their software is designed to run on a server. Their "low cost" exacqVision EL is priced over $3,000... hardly a comparable replacement for a sub-$1,000 dedicated DVR. What am I missing here?

Yep, if someone really wants to damage or disable the cams, little will stop them. I'm concerned more about someone prying them off the ceiling and walking off with them.

No pictures necessary. I can understand what you are doing. Using the wood boards as a backer will certainly improve the mounting strength versus just screwing into the drywall (or using drywall anchors). And that will help keep the cameras well-mounted to the drywall (no chance of accidental or casual pullout). But it really won't stop someone from ripping it off the wall or ceiling.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the dimensional drawings on CNB's website, it appears that the only difference between the VBM and VCM models are that the VCM cams are 14.5mm [~9/16"] shorter (101mm height vs. 86.5mm exposed height). That's not much of a difference and the VCM will limit intstallation options. What am I missing here?

Theft and/or vandalism of the cameras.