renz05725

Soundy or anyone else that feels they can answer. Soundy responded to a question about cabling methods earlier this year and had the above mentioned statement about 12vdc cameras and baluns. Can you explain to me why there is a problem with ground loops and signal quality. Would there be polarity issues as well? The reason I ask is simple. We install all of our systems with rg59 cable (siemese) with power supplies that have dedicated fuses for each output. We do this because we do not want to have any issues with quality of pictures or power issues to the cameras. Obviously going with rg59 over cat5e/6 is way more expensive, as well as using the compression connectors over 45 connectors. We are seeing our competitors going with the cat5e and balum method more and more now. They are able to keep prices lower, as you can buy almost 3 boxes of 1000ft cat5e cable for what you'd buy 1 1000ft spool of rg59. At the same time though I am seeing them struggle with quality of picture, power issues and I've heard some of their technicians discuss polarity issues. Are they using the wrong cameras when going with the cat5/balun method? If going with this method of installation, what factors should be looked at when deciding on cameras, dvr and power supplies? I have heard the distance isn't to big of a factor when using cat5e/6 cable. Is that entirely true? I am the owner of a small Telecommunications and Special Systems company. We have been in business for 2 years now. Originally I was a IT administrator and moved into the commercial sales and led me to this path of where I am now. I have been selling surveillance systems for about 4 years now (thru my company and my previous employeer). I like this site, because it is very informative and allows us to get information we need and learn from what others are doing. While going thru older, posts I ran into your response Soundy and it fasinated me enough to want to know why 12vdc doesn't work well with baluns and cat5/6 cabling. Thank you in advance for any responses.

Soundy these where Digital Watchdog Cameras and yes they are dual voltage cameras. Actually they are fairly decent priced cameras with great output from my experiences with them. rory, Im not sure what type of baluns they used, I'm pretty sure we have them in the boxes we took out of that site. But I guess part of the problem is they used cheap Hawk-I security cameras and some CHEAP video card that was installed on a PC that was used on a daily basis for work related operations as well. In all honesty the original installer simply didnt know what they where doing at all. It was the electrical contractor that thought it be easy to pick up that work and the low voltage network cabling as well in his contract. Only thing is, you have to know what your doing when picking up either one of those types of work and they didnt. We got the clean up work and full new install on a bigger surveillance system and the testing and recabling of the voice/data cabling which was GREAT!

Sorry if I put this in the wrong forum. How do I put this in the dealer forum and where is it?

j4str?!? What do you really want? You ask a question and these guys answer you and it seems like its not what you want to here. They are telling you basically don't throw your money away on cheap equipement and install it on a low end pc and you just don't seem to get it!?!?!?!? Whats the point of asking for advice if you don't want to take any of it when you get it and keep aslking the same questions hoping to get a different answer. Basically it seems like if you've made up your mind, so go out and throw you money into what you've set your mind on and when you are done, come back and let everyone know how it went.

My whole reason for this thread is not to start an argument, but to look at a potential change for this new year in the way we cable some of the systems we install. We ran 32 cameras at a local buisness here and ended up purchasing 9 boxes of siemese cable at $150 a box (1000ft spools) which if you do the math is roughly $1300 in cable alone. If we had done it in cat5e the cable would have been roughly $600, so there is a $700 difference there. Thing is, we took out 8 cameras from this building that another installer had put in which were all run with Cat5e and baluns that looked like CRAP! The cameras looked goldish green at the dvr with the refresh lines going up and down each view on the cameras. The average run was about 400ft, but we had some cameras at 630 ft. I didn't want to take the chance on this job and put in cat5e cable and have to pull it, because it didn't work for me, the way it hadn't work for the previous installer. So we ran siemese cable with 2 16 channel power supplies and the cameras look picture perfect. Which is what all our customers want and for the most part lets me know all systems are go and the install was a success. If we had run a cat5e cable to the cameras that were 630ft away, would we have had a power problem? What type of baluns need to be used for that type of length? I really want to look at cutting cost this year and it seems one way might be to go from siemese to ethernet based cable on our surveillance system installs. But I want to make sure we know what we are doing before we do anything, because I am not a fan of having to do anything twice and spend twice the amount of $$$ on re-work.

I went on google and youtube toget a little more info and found a company that says that brown white is industry standard for video signal and that all other pairs must be used for power if u expect the camera to recieve the correct voltage. How true is this? Also coming from an IT background our primary cable is always blue white and then orange, green and lastly brown. I would have assumed that would have been the same here. Soundy seems to put the same in his example to me. R these guys wrong in their standard or is it a simple open base conne t as you prefer standard when it comes to color code on cables?

so active baluns would fix ground loop problems even on cheap 12vdc only cameras? I see baluns priced as low as $9.99 a pair to $29.99 a pair. Now paying more doesnt always mean better, but what i guess would I look for in a balun, if your saying that cheap baluns are the cause as well?

Does anyone know what restrictions Arizona has for security system/surveillance system installers? Licensing? Insurance? Bonding? I have a job that has been sent to me and it is in Arizona. The only thing is, I'm not sure what the law requires in that state. Here in Texas we have to be a licensed company to install with insurance coverage. Does the same apply out there? Hope someone here can help.

I've been approached by a small school district here locally to possibly upgrade their outdoor security cameras. They are using a ONSSI DVR system and the cameras i quote them need to be compatible. The problem they are having is in the cameras night vision capabilities. They have had 2 other companies come in and provide them cameras. These cameras are supposed to be capable of picking up video in no light situations and adjust when light becomes available. The problem they have had both times is that the cameras they have recieved both work great in no light situations, but when a car drives up or head lights come into picture, the cameras automatically get blinded by the lights and white out. They want a camera that does the night vision, but automatically adjusts to when flashes of light /head lights come into the picture. What cameras should i be looking for or at? What should i need to now about the ONSSI system that will come in play? I'm coming here and asking because even though there are acouple of other sites that offer help. It seems that this site has the smarter or informative members...

Yes, they are using a OnSSI which i am not to familiar with. They have their own security department and are simply asking us to get them better cameras and install them. They where sold on this OnSSI by the initial company that sold them the cameras that didn't do what they wanted them to do. As for these cameras not being cheap. Obviously they have seen what going cheap has gotten them 2 times already and are now asking for a proper solution. I've looked at the Panasonic WV NW484S camera. Do any of you guys have experience with this camera? Is it as simple as the getting a better camera with a better auto iris? Do i need to get a camera that can mask out high burst of light from a occurance to properly get a picture of what is going around that burst of light? I'll look into the arecont camera mentioned. Thanks for the help guys, i really appreciate it. I

I am putting together a proposal for a 29 camera system here in my area. I will be installing digital watch dog cameras and possibly their 9000's series DVR to keep the system uniformed. But i was wondering if anyone new of a good reliable 32 camera DVR (PC based is all that is out there from what i have heard) that they would recommend. USAG has sent me a quote on their 32 camera DVR and the price seems really good, but I am not familiar enough with their products. I have used in the past a Workstation PC with a Video Insight card. What systems do you guys recommend me to look into? They really want to only record motion (and there will be alot of it). 24 Cameras will be indoors and be simple 2.8-12mm varifocal lens cameras. the outdoor cameras will have IR and 3x optical zoom. Time period for recordings before purge will be 21 days. They will want to be able to remote view this location from out of state and will have 2-3 users logged in at once viewing the same thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have installed several surveillance systems the past couple of years and have always done so the way i was first shown : siamese cable (rg59), compression connectors and 1 main power distribution unit/power supply for the system. I have recently run into a system that i am being asked to trouble shoot. They used Nighthawk bullet cameras with cat5e cameras, power baulins and it is being run to an video insight pc card. The majority of these cameras are about 300-350 feet from the mdf where it is being stored. The owner worked with 2 individuals on this project. He worked with a distributor who sold him the cameras, baulins, video insight card and cat5e. He then outsourced the labor to another company that had requested the cat5e cameras and baulins. Well the company that installed has taken off and the cameras look like crap. I asked the distributor why they choose to use cat5e with baulins and he basically said that the installers wanted it that way because it was cheaper to buy the cat5e (obviously) than the siamese and they would make more money. My problem now is that i need to go check both ends of the baulins, check the cameras and the card (basic trouble shooting) and try to figure out why they look like crap. To top it off, they used the cheapest cat5e they could find on the market, which probably is not helping the situation. my question is: why would you use cat5e over siamese other than cost savings? Am i missing something thinking that siamese is the way to go as long is the run is not longer than 750ft or ip?

how much bandwidth is being used when someone remotely logs into the a dvr to view what is going on at their site. Does icamera and dvr settings matter when viewing remotely? I see alot of DVR's or i guess i can say 99% of them now offer remote access via IE/Firefox. But what type of internet connection is actually needed to actually view what is truly being picked up on the dvr/cameras? sorry if this is a newbie question... but i am struggling with this and would like to know.

I have a customer that wants to set up 2 ip cameras at his location. He wants to be able to log in with 3-5 other users at the same time and view what is going on at his location. I am not sure how this works, will 2 frames per second be sufficent and not chew up his dsl bandwidth? He told me that another company had told him he would need at least 3mb of upstream off of his dsl to do this, which is basically pushing him to a t1 of internet... is this true/realistic? What should i know or be looking at if i even attempt to get this project going? I'm a newbie here and have found this place to be like Disney Land for newbies trying to learn...

No, you don't need to put power AT the cameras - like I said before, just remove the current centralized power supply, mount power bars there instead, and connect the existing power runs that now terminate in the box, each to its own adapter. I'm not familiar with that brand, but from looking at the various different listings for them, those particular cameras seem to be fairly mid-low-end. Most listings I found had them selling for $110-$140 (although a couple places were selling them for well over $200). Guess you don't always get what you pay for Unfortunately, the common-ground design is pretty standard even with better 12VDC cameras - only the ones with built-in power regulators really get away from that problem, because the power ground is then separated from the video ground. 24VAC cameras avoid it because they necessarily need a transformer/rectifier/regulator to step the voltage down (since the internals in most cases still run at 12V). where would i get these power bars from?

are the bandwidth issues the same as logging into a dvr vs. logging into an ip camera?

would that be a better method than going ip cameras?

is it fair to say that using a dvr vs. going ip camera is eaiser in the log run to have mutliple user log in to and view?

this is in a warehouse and the cameras are up high in the open rafters of the building. there is not power where the cameras are located and i would need to run really long extension cords to them to supply power or have an electrician come and put some power next to them. They are about 20ft high (all of them). from what you have read off the specifications of these cameras and know from the industry, are these lower end/cheap cameras?

how do all these daycares and adult daycares do this very thing? He actually saw this done while dropping off his dad at an adult daycare.

is the best solution simply tearing out the cat5e and putting in saimese? I'm not talking about most cost effective, because obviously they went that route and it is killing them now. I'm talking about simply getting the cameras to work clearly, recabling with siamese would be the easiest soltuion and true solution, short of these cameras being crap? the cameras are Hawk-I HAWK-147IRCB.

does the amount of users logged in matter or affect bandwidth? This company has 768kbps upstream and 3mbps downstream as the speed of their dsl. basically he wants to view his convienence stores in pecos, tx from dallas tx. He wants to view live video of them and see if they are working and where they are at in a given time. He wants to be able to access from where ever he is at (he is indian from india and wants access from india when he is over there). Plus he wants his gm's, local managers and himself to be all online at the same store discussing what is going on. is this possible with this type of upstream at 2fps and is 2fps enough to give decent video at medium quality 320x what ever it is? No video storage is necessary, what they are really after is viewing the live footage. What ip camera(s) would you recommend? Is there a way of getting these cameras linked up on one location (via internet) to be viewed as needed/wanted?

yes these are 12vdc cameras