DoorMan

I'm not really a hard line political guy but I can't take it anymore... If you are in the US and are unhappy with the BS being handed down, make your way to Freedom Plaza in DC at 11:30 am on 9/12/09 for a little jaunt down Penn. Ave. There will be plenty of us there.... Lots of cameras too..

Yes sir we rocked the house for sure. How many were there? We don't really know yet. Well into the hundreds of thousands. Most conservative estimates from up above have it at around 250,000 and the more aggressive reliable sources had us up at 450,000. One thing that is for sure there was alot of people that banded together to say "less is more"..........."hands-off my kids' piggy banks"........."hands-off my liver". More simply put, "Don't Tread On ME!" There's a couple cool pictures in here. You be the judge. The Metro was shut down in overload. The expressway in was bumper to bumper. Not one incident of crime either. The march was forced down the avenue by police early when freedom plaza filled to the brink an hour and a half earlier than expected. Marchers continued to come to and walk down the ave for hours after it began. A steady stream until around 1:30 For fair and balanced vid look here: If they panned right you wouldn't believe your eyes: http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/12/HP/A/23055/FreedomWorks+Rally+in+DC.aspx Read up on and join in here: Note the ultra opponents trying to shut their eyes and ears in the comments section. http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/max/how-many-people-came-to-912-taxpayer-march-on-wash There were other demonstrations in 45 states Saturday. TX, NC, Georgia, Ohio, FLA, VA were the most noticeable and vocal bunch. They were a breath of fresh air for acouple guys and gals from the land of Kennedy\Frank\Kerry. It was a headbanging and handshaking experience.

What a bunch of asses!

Nothing, my wifes making me go... There's been a sharp decline on several fronts here in the states over the last decade or so. Alot of what is being viewed as solutions recently are hotly contested. Time for some action...stand and be counted before it irreversable so to speak. Just good old hot button topics and major loss of liberties could be the result of doing nothing right now. Plus the weather this summer has sucked big time and I'm getting fat because of it....

And the price plus the extreme temperature range is a big benefit with these cameras. I have one coming in. These look like pretty good cost/benefit.

How many pixels are on the faces? The lens appears to be set to the widest angle to cover the entire front of the office from just a few feet. Zoom the lens to cover jsut the door and many more pixels will cover the faces. The coverage area and pixels on the faces is no different than any other security camera. However, if you compare this camera with another 1.3 mp camera using the same lens settings, you will really begin to see the difference of WDR in this bright parking lot / less-bright office setup. Best, Christopher Hadn't even considered the size of the men's faces just thought they definately looked large enough for some recognition. The darkness of them took me by surprise there above all. Zooming would help in the picture brightness I take it. It sounds as if one could brighten up the image at the expense of some wash outside to actually see faces inside? The DR would simply scale? Got it I think.. Thanks!

I'm the only barrel guy in this discussion and have made my limited experience quite clear without shame or excuse. Well like I said I've not seen this barrel distortion on the cams I've tried to date. I'm not "acting" at all here and never said it was a "major problem" either. I've never owned an SLR or DSLR. Never disagreed with the asertion that the police would not reject for barrel distortion. To your point above what I AM saying is I just saw 2 guys walk out the door with who knows what 12 feet in front of a 1000 dollar camera that is the "bees knees" for WDR MP technology and I couldn't ID them from here. Yes the sky looks great and the bumper is awesome and hey "roll out the barrel" distortion for all purposes of discussion. If I was the customer I'd expect better you can bet on it. I'll ask it again. Am I expecting too much from a 1000 dollar camera? Is this simply how the camera is setup? Could it be better you think? Can anyone explain to me why the major wash of the outdoor image when the men (obviously not perps but i dunno? ) opened the door to leave? Should could or would the camera have corrected for this eventually? Thanks!

Well to be honest I don't think I could. Look at 16:32:30 and 16:32:32. I mean from a small pool of possibilities I would be able to assume who that would be. But at a random location and situation where the perp could be anyone in the city or county or state etc. I'm not sure it would be enough? And this being al of what, say 12 feet away? Enhancement techniques maybe? I'm no CSI guy for sure.... My wife and I were looking through the photo album recently after delivering my daughter to first year of college. She shows me a picture of her and my son standing there together holding hands in front of a tree on vacation while very young. Brought back the memories entirely. Good thing it wasn't the only identifying photograph we had if there was an obduction and such. You couldn't tell anything about them really.

In the first place it is easy to correct images with barrel distortion, and in the second place, it's not that important. Are the police going to reject a positive ID because the image has barrel distortion? The bright sunny sky, the white lines in the parking lot, and the shiny chrome bumper are not blown out, and yet we can see good images of the men while standing in the shadow. Amazing. Just a guess, but I'm willing to bet that's at least ten stops. Too bad the night images are from within the building. Would love to see a dimly lit parking lot at night. Best, Christopher Yes maybe it isn't setup properly if like you said it is easy to correct for barrel distortion. I'm not used to seeing this on my 7 to 800 dollar cameras right off the wire. This is a lens flaw no? I really think there is quite a bit of illumination of the men as the outer glass surface is highly reflective tinted glass type.Or maybe my thinking is bass ackwards too... Time and more images will tell the whole tale on this one. Hard to tell with so little to examine. So far I'm just not feeling it for this camera.. At 7 to 800 dollars it would be better I think. It's great to see some images come from this long awaited camera though! Thanks TWG for posting these.

It's difficult to judge without comparison images, but the dynamic range looks very impressive. But the most important test for me is moving objects in low light. Best, Christopher Yes there is alot to like about this image. Judging from the moving mini van in the last pic there is a bit of blur though. I don't know if it is from motion (or how fast even) or the glass it is shown through but it is a moving object. Would suggest a slowish shutter speed I would think?

Why ? Think how many feet do u have from left to right ? how many pix do u have from left to right ? Get my point ? Well I brought it into grid and I measure 7 pixels (I think) across for each letter in the bulleted portion of the Legend. Even the larger closer text that (I believe) says Commuter Rail on the top right that is closer and a touch larger is difficult. Looks soft to me but I'm not an expert...yet Am I expecting too much here? This is a 1000 dollar camera right? Seriously though do I expect too much here?

Just for fun open any mega pix in full res on your own comp. let me know plz how do u like it ? But I think from what I see here other cams I've used so far do better. Certainly less curvaceous. Night time will sing the praises of this one probably. 3 MP would make all the difference most likely too. Scares me that the choice of lens is limited to what I see here...unless I'm mistaken about that. All right I'll shut up now..

I knida thought we should be able to read the legend and map that looks like it's 10 feet away at most. There is alot of pixelation on the drop ceiling tiles near the lights, also at the facia where the straight edges are sort of jagged. Yes much better than an analog for sure! But with all the hype maybe I was expecting too much.... Maybe this will shine in the dark. Just my .02. And is the left edge of that window really curved? This camera is lens specific no? Everything is curved....

Thanks! wow....I was hoping for better than that. Can't wait to see it setup properly. Hopefully this one was just slapped up there.

I agree and along similar lines .... I wish there was a consumer guide or report with a large number of cams tested and their result compared. In a solitary laboratory setting if possible. I see a couple guys here that do just that on their own and for their own consumption in a small shop and such. But nothing could compare to a test lab where variables are fixed and measurement uncertainty is minimised across all makes and models. Then a stamp of approval on the unit with true specs listed. If I had a nickel for every wish......

Yes and with MPG there is temperature, terrain, load and technique all not spoken for to derive emperically the rating. MPG testing just got another overhaul this year. Christopher, you may be too kind to say they are not lying. I'm not so kind in my beliefs. I'm not sure deception doesn't qualify. There are plenty of examples of lying or misrepresenting specs with cameras. They are both the same to me and I was as frustrated as anyone so went on to the quest for standardized test methods information. There is more honesty in Japan I learned which is probably why Japanese cameras are on the top of most guy's quality list. Speaking in general terms of course. It comes at a cost though.... Just thought I'd mention that The Axis method I linked has been in place since early 2006 as dated within the pages of it. Good luck on your search for the truth. I know I'll refuse to buy and try every make and model out there to find it as well, especially at MP cam prices....

Since you tested it to be ten times worse regarding shutter speed they must be flat-out lying? That wouldn't surprise me too badly. It would surprise me to learn they are testing to a newer method for newer cameras though. Since the CEA-639 specification only recently replaced the older (2003 I believe) specification that was EIA-639. I looked for my copy of the Japanese testing specification but could not find it readily. If you go to some Japanese website you will see that the cameras sold within Japan have a much worse (sometimes 8 times worse) Lux rating. The same camera sold here in the states meanwhile will have a much lower rating. Of course all of this should be moot if the MFG adopts CEA-639 and remains truthful with the results. Funny thing too is that ACTi has recently released the TCM series cameras in which they specify cameras in an identical fashion to the Sony high-end megapixel line. With several key measurables listed. This camera, the TCM-5311, has been extremely good at night for us here. But the best... I dunno...

The data sheet on the Arecont website does not specify the minimum lux rating for BW, but there are older data sheets on the web that specify 0.01 lux for BW. However, once again, there is no shutter speed associated with the 0.01 lux rating, so it really doesn't mean that much. There is a huge difference between 0.01 lux at 1/60s and 0.01 lux at 2s. Shutter speeds and lux values by themselves are of little value. To be meaningful, they need to be specified in pairs. Mobotix has taken the lead on this, and specify their lux values with associated shutter speeds. Companies like Axis do not include shutter speed with their lux values, and companies like Arecont don't even list lux value in their latest AV3130 data sheet. 0 lux. Yeah right. Thank you Mobotix!!!! Best, Christopher Here is the test definition as provided on the AXIS website.... "Shutter speed not to exceed 200ms". This is based on Industry Standard CEA 639, "Consumer Camcorder or Video Camera Low Light Performance." http://www.axis.com/files/tech_notes/Axis_MMI.pdf So the simple question now becomes "Hey Mr Mfg do you test to CEA-639?" All these guys do: Samsung, JVC, Philips, Sony, Hitachi, Canon, Panasonic, and Thomson Consumer Electronics.

Well..Like I said above there. You would need to acquire the test parameters set forth by the gov't testing agency. Therefore the comparison would be clear between Japanese cameras atleast.... After speaking directly with Sony Pro that is the truth as they know it to be . Specifying lux value, an IRE, an AGC and an F value is enough to determine a brighter camera from a darker one given the same fixed shutter speed and color temperature. I'll have a look around here to find the test method sent to me...

All Japanese camera manufacturers are bound governmentally by the same testing methods/parameters to derive specifications. From this you can take some assurance in the performance of these cams.....

With the HD4000 your choice of HDMI Out or Composite Out (BNC), selectable onboard.

Got it. Thanks all for the explaination. I see now how that could be a pretty frustrating routine. No experience with Arecont software yet but soon I will. Seems odd man out to the other brands I've used.. All will find many cams at once in list form and allow ip/password setup of these all in bulk fashion. They are just like you say with a tiny unobtrusive utility suitable to be left on the system for later use. I appreciate the help!

Arecont has built in web server in every camera and yes u can adjust parameter's of the camera p.s. They do have stand alone IP finder utility Thanks for clearing that up ak... But I must say that now I don't understand any of the dilema here, I must not be experienced enough to understand it. I was under the impression that all the features and functions could be configured with the cameras onboard web server configurator and ip finder utility.. Help me understand why the need to utilize any other tools or applications if one is not going to use them systemwide 24/7? What am I missing? Insn't it as simple as logging in to the web server, installing Areconts Active-X controls and setup the camera....done?

So I gather from this that Arecont does not have a web configurator useable within only a browser? Good to know info...

I'm really trying to get my head around all this stuff and have spent a large amount of time on this one. This is my first quection here and I tried to figure it out alone to no avail. 0.05 Lux at F1.2 (30 IRE, SAGC) Or 0.15 lx (50IRE, F1.3,AGC 30dB) Assuming the AGC's line up perfectly between the two and the Color Temps are identical. That is to say, are the f ratings gonna bring these into line as equals with regards to IRE if changed the lenes around? Which setup is brighter? Thanks all!