nadort

Back to the question,...my opinion IP versus analoge is a question wich several answers. Who am I I work as a profesional by a govermental organisation in the netherlands as an register security expert (RSE) with a mix of both systems. We are talking then about a huge profesional system (around 2000+ camera's) with specified requirements where cost are not so important. We pay from 900,-- euro for the cheapest to 6000,-- for a special. The requirement and specs what we want to see counts. Some time you can do it with IP and some times you need an another one (low light intensifier, IR-laser, thermal heat seaking). IP camera versus Analoge camera With the normal IP camera's you stil can not do all the things you can with the other options and till the time you can we need to use analoge and other camera's Digital versus analoge cabeling All our camera's are connected to a seperate glassfibre network and digitized and the images stored on huge dvr's at a high resolution for a long period (months). We can afford to have a separate networks wich one of them we use only for cctv so we do not have any trouble with the computer people abouth bandwith use when you do not have it you must talk and get approval from the computer automation department. with IP you can look at camera's anywhere from anywhere in the world ( advise use a secure crypto protocol so you know sure your the only one who"s looking). Normal cabeling or RF transmission has his limitations but is somtimes also ussefull when it does the job. Digitised images versus analoge. The time of analoge tape dvr's is over so there no discussion about that. With digitised image"s streamed to your security management system you can search or trigger alarms using biometric or special software as advanced motion, direction, riot/violence, counting or face recognision detection so you can handel a large system and do not need 2000 operators to watch the screens. You also can merge the immages from several camera"s (IP or analoge with an thermal and or IR-laser camera) into one new projected image. With analoge images the more sufisticated searches are not possible. Only simple videomotion where the system mostly do not sees the differance between real motion and rain or snow. Presenting the images We displaying the image"s is on several Barco projector walls (HD-TV quality over HDMI) or on normal (spot)monitors (RG59). We do not use lcd or plasma because the image quality is to poor. that my opinion ...so shoot on it

When we use flir is it always as 2nd camera option. That means that the two images are merged together in one. When we want permanent recognision on a large area Like a parking lot we use mostly sentry 21 megapixel scope camera's and merged them. A sentry cost here arround euro 1700 a piece (2400 us dollar) http://www.ttbindustries.com/sentry_scope.htm. They give you a sight 90 meters wide and 60 meters distance permanetly and you can zoom in without loosing the other content of the image. The software merged the low light camera, the flir, the laser search light and the sentry together and you can choose wich images you want to have together on your spot monitor.

must be a type error. When you wanna make a profit as an installer you can do it for approx $8.000,-- per camera position In europe i pay for a licenceplate camera 1.250,-- euro = 1.075,-- british pounds = $ 1.770,00 http://www.webcamcenter.nl/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/3/products_id/694?osCsid=a89e612de7acb28931ad60f4cfe35b58 20 feet pole $ 2000,00 placing the whole thing in concrete, (truck delivery, crane, labor, power supply etc) $ 3000,00. In britain the is standard a glasfibre network alongside the track so wirring to the server is not a big deal. Than LPR software o the server in the control room and your done. When you wanna make a profit as an installer you can do it for approx $7.000,-- per camera position

for good boards look at http://www.videologyinc.com/index.html This is an american company who bought the Philips CCTV Special Products Division when Bosch took over so you must can buy it in the USA At the design studio in the netherlands work only former ex-philips designers and the prices are good.

I am from the netherlands and we use normaly no IR assisted camera's because of there lack to see in rain and fog and poor image quality. The only use we have is with a 1200nm narrow focused laserbeam searchlight to look inside a darkglassed car or house We normaly just ad more lights, or buy good camera's with low lux optios. When thats not possible or not wanted we use an (extra) thermal imaging camera.(2nd camera option). The price for the mentioned IR camera is much to high. In the usa you have for $ 3325 a good B/W outdoor thermal imaging camera. No ilumination needed, sees in rain and fog and gives no blur. See http://thermalvideo.com/thermal-imaging-systems/flir_vsr-6.htm

its funny to see a super had 1/3 ccd camera wich need 1 lux for colour, and than you need to go IR to get a "good" black and white picture. Go to the sony website where all the original models are with the real specs than you see that you maybe don,t need IR and have a real good camera. You have an original sony type ssc473SSCE473 1/3" SuperEXwave Color Video Camera with 540 Lines (Day/Night Yes) for $364.00 U.S. (sony advise List Price but can be found for sale for $200 ex lens and housing) http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-SSCE473/ or a jvc-tkc920u ($160). Buy a good lens and a outdoor housing and you have a good system. If you don't have light than ad some extra lights wich go on with an Passive infrared detector. Also nice whem you came home and its dark and the lights go on. succes

In the netherlands all installers use the elbex ewm40 cctv camera analyzer. They are made in Japan by ELBEX and they have an office in the usa in Los Alamitos, CA 90720. I have there adress but i don not know if i may put it on the forum with the ewm40 you can measure everything you want to know. real colour vs presented colour, TVL, IR radiation, wave length, IR reflection sensitivity on ccd IRE output VPP output LUX reflection on several different sort of reflecting objects and so on They are rather expensive arround 1900,== euro (arround 2655 USdollar) Than we use the rotakin test kit and a cctvlabs testchart

It still looks like an normal IR camera to me. Almost at the end of the first clip when de left girl is walking towards the camera, the camerahave to readjust because there is a large reflection of someting on here dress. If you want that I believe you that it is something else than the person must look from a short distance direcly in te lens for 2 seconds. Everybody who works with IR back-up ligting knows what happens with the eyes.

How to measure the tvl of a cctv camera was the first question and a read a lot of things that i never used. Wy ....when we do something we must know for sure. I am responsible for a lot of camera's wich give legal evidence and the must work as our specs required. TVL is nice but not the most important part. Other things are the size of the chip 2/3, 1/2, 1/3 or and yes they sell them 1/4 inch CCD or what to think of cmos. The choice of the lens of the camera, F rating, IR correction, zoomlens or measured and so on The lighting outside, yes or no IR or sens-up Than you have the DVR recording speed, resolution/compression. Display monitor, TUBE or TFT or backbeamer projector, led or plasma I can afford very expensive camera equipment but most of the people have to do it with the normal stock So just make a good paper with demands what you want to see live and recorded day and/or night. Observation, Recognision or Identification, And go shopping for a good price and let the installer demonstrate if it is wat you want. for the installers or big spenders on this forum who want to go profesional and want to show to non technical buyers that therre specs are right We use for a quick checks on site the Rotakin doll. For testing the TV CCTV Test chart en checking the specs of a camera the camera analyser EWM40

Sorry for my late reply on the test chart but Yes thats the one and its very handy for a quick check. The other equipment of that firm (cctvlabs) is also very good but also expensive. To test a camera on site we also use what we call a "Rotakin" test Doll

Yes I think also that you have a power probelem. Following the normal specs on cat 5 there is a voltage drop of 2,8 volts at the end of the cable (320 meter or 1050 feet). In the specs must been given how many amps the camera use when IR is on and how many it use when IR is on. When you put 0.2 amps/24volts in the wire and you meassure it you shall see that the voltage at the end is arround 21 volts. When the IR gets on, the amps demand is going up and the voltage drop is getting bigger and the system gets faillures. greetings and succes george van de Nadort

I am a newie here from the netherlands but we use here a test chart from a british firm CCTVLABS . Its a nice chart and measuring the tvl, bandwitdh, gamma and resolution is very easy and you do not need a lot of equipment on site. I do not know if there is somthing like that in the USA.

I think there is a light source. when you look at the videa you see the camera react on the reflection of something on the dress of the girl. The image get overloaded and the camera has to re adjust. At my work we operate a lot of different systems IR and laser an light amplifiers and for me it looks like an simple IR lamp. I would like te see the girls walking towards the camera and so i can see wat happens to there eyes. Thats how you can see if its IR

My name is George van de Nadort, I am from the Netherlands and I am and I work as an cival servant at a cctv controlroom and i am responsible that the whole thing (600 cams with dvr's and intercoms and a big securitymanagement system) works. I studie technical security management (Msc).