akelley

I take it zoneminder does not support in camera MD? Does it support speed up on MD at the server? I know Milestone supports this, so in theory, you could drop the frame rate down to 1 fps for each camera while monitoring for MD, and then on MD event, speed up to 15 or more FPS for the recording. This drops the CPU requirements significantly as the majority of time, most of cameras are just streaming 1 fps, and when there is motion, maybe 1 or 2 cameras then stream full FPS.

badgcoupe, May I ask why you chose to use server software for motion detection and not the camera's MD? People keep saying that Milestone is a CPU "Hog", but they rarely ever specify whether they're using server side MD or relying on the camera. In my experience with Milestone, when using the camera's MD, CPU usage on the server is not what I would consider any more than any other VMS running in a similar mode. I've seen Milestone Professional being run on an i7 server, 24GB RAM, and 10K enterprise class drives, hosting 32 cameras of mixed 1.3 - 4MP (ranging from 5 - 15 FPS) and not seeing CPU utilization above 30%. That figure will jump according to the number clients attached, viewing X number of cameras live and recorded playback. But in my opinion, when set up correctly with decent cameras (that support MD), Milestone is not really that much more resource intensive than other major VMS systems. ExacqVision is the opposite - known for a minimum amount of system resources, but they support far fewer cameras than Milestone. May I know which version Milestone Xprotect you are using to test your Dahua cameras? Xprotect Go??? or Essential??? Milestone Xprotect only support 1 model of Dahua camera, and that is the IP-HF3300P or a PAL version. This is a 3MP camera, did you have 4 units of 3MP cameras tested using MS Xprotect at your home. Also what is your Core i5 CPU usage in terms of % = 10% or 30 %??? when doing live monitoring on 4 x 3MP cameras + software motion detection is enabled in MS Xprotect on 4 cameras? Your answers is much appreciated. Thanks. I am using xProtect essential with software side motion detection. It utilizes about 25% of the processor (according to task manager.) I am running 3 1.3MP bullets and a 2MP bullet style camera. When live viewing it jumps up to about 35-40%. I'd say the biggest bottleneck in my system is the conventional mechanical 7200RPM hard disks. The only time I notice any speed issues is when reviewing motion detected footage in the monitor application. I'm not sure about the support for the 3MP but I would assume ONVIF would cover that with Milestone, they seem to do well supporting ONVIF supported devices. I started with the trial to ensure before I bought anything.

Okay, it's "next month" so where are they? I kid, of course, but I really would like to see how well these perform. If they can get a decent dome without IR bleed, variable powered LEDs, with Axis quality PQ, and they keep the price reasonable, I think they'll definitely appeal to more users. In time, perhaps they'll even equip their "consumer" M series with night vision capabilities. Always wondered why the ~$500 M5014 wasn't at least capable of night vision (even without built in IR lamps).

So I decided to test one of these out for myself and have to admit I'm impressed with the quality considering the sub $200 price. But one thing that does concern me is that on my camera there are two admin accounts, and one user account by default (admin, 888888, and 666666). When I went to remove the two numerically named accounts, it would not let me. Does everyone else have these as well? It concerns me because I can't change the password or remove the accounts so in my opinion, that's a serious security issue as anyone with the default passwords would be able to access the camera and potentially change settings using the 888888 admin account. I haven't contacted Empire Security yet as I wanted to see if anyone else has the same issue, and/or a justification for why these cameras are set up this way. I really don't like the idea of "backdoors" into my equipment, and I can assure you, neither would my clients.

I like Axis cameras, but I have to say my experience with Axis Camera Companion (ACC) left me feeling the software is half baked, at best. I had it hooked up to a p3367-ve and a M5014. When it connected to the M5014 and was used for any extended period of time (like >15 minutes) it would cause the M5014 to freeze up, requiring a hard reboot (cut power). One of the more intrussive issues I found was that when it was used with the p3367-ve it caused a noticeable degradation in FPS on the camera. I figured this out because when you point ACC, it sets up its own Admin account, and installs some Axis programs for motion detection and other functions. I figured out that it was these programs that were running that was bogging down the camera. In other words ACC can't use the camera's native MD application so installs its own, which appears to be not nearly as efficienct. When this was running, the p3367 went from the full 12.5 fps down to sub 10 fps. As soon as I disabled the ACC applications, everything went back to normal. I think ACC is good for a limited number of cameras (and probably only for the lower end "M" series) - they just need to figure out why it causes them to freeze up (I was never able to fix this on the M5014). ExacqVision now offers an integrated version of their VMS that works directly with Axis Edge recording cameras - ExacqVision Edge. Haven't had the time to test it out yet, but maybe that's something you can do on your blog, Buellwinkle

Not sure what you mean by it doesn't have http port because it certainly does as you can access the camera with a web browser, and you can change the port from the standard 80. I have no problem doing this and was able to access the camera remotely (outside of my network) by forwarding the camera's http port in my router. But it appears the video stream does not work over http for this camera, or it uses a non standard method all together. By the way, I was looking on your site (Empire Security) and couldn't find where I could download updated firmware. I also couldn't find this on the Dahua website either. Any idea where I can get updated firmware?

I'm also interested the quality of the Sanyo that Tom mentions. By the way, there was a slight typo in your model number. It's not VCC- but VCD- for the domes. Anyway, I would be interested in seeing night time shots and video if possible. I've recently installed a Samsung SNV-7080R and while on paper it should be a great camera, in reality, I have not been impressed at all. Not sure who the OEM for Samsung and Sanyo are (Panasonic maybe?), but so far, I haven't been impressed with Samsung - Axis by far has been the best IP cameras I've installed and used. Mobotix certainly has a lot of features, but you really need to take training to fully exploit their full feature set. I remember a while back I was testing a Q24 and I swear I couldn't get that thing to do more than 5 fps, no matter what settings I tried. Disappointed because it really was a perfect solution for my client (if it would have worked, that is).

Thanks for the responses and it's a good point about not exposing the camera port, but not every situation uses an NVR. And considering this is a sub $200 camera, it will likely find its way into many consumer hands who may not be able to weigh the exposed port vs. pass through NVR options (or want to pay for the NVR). Also, in my testing I have not been able to get my "goto" Android AP (IP Cam Viewer Pro) to access the camera through standard http port - only rtsp.

No one else has these accounts, or are concerned? Buelwinkle, I know you have tested these cameras. Any thoughts on having a default admin account you can't disable or change the password on?

What's the make and model?

You should contact the manufacturer directly for tech support. I contacted the service but the gave me solutions that did not fix the problem. They told me to reduce the resolution and disable the "Smart Coedc" but as I thought nothing changed. When I arrive close to 3 GB of available space I receive the message "Data base corrupted"...... Unfortunately I have not seen this problem on the cameras I have installed. I would test with a different SD card as that could be the issue. If you have a name brand card, try that. Some of the off brands aren't always as reliable. The other suggestion would be to re-flash the firmware with the latest (even if the camera already has the latest).

Thanks for the info on the availability. That's too bad. I have a project where I could use two of these in the next month to 6 weeks.

Most any of the consumer level cams can achieve this. Check out the Panasonic BLC* series. They even provide sample HTML code for embedding the stream in your own page (the stream is fully configurable as well - size, frame rate, user control of pan/tilt, etc.) These cameras can be had for about $150+ on Amazon. Even many of the cheaper cams sold on eBay (and Amazon) can do this as well. Loftek, Foscam, EasyFN, etc. These are usually sub $100 cameras. A quick Google search will provide the stream information required for embedding in your own web page.

Yeah, I'm also eagerly awaiting the new models with built in IR lamps. Any word on availability?

Does ExacqVision allow you to enter settings for cameras that aren't in their supported list? There's a couple of models missing from their list that I'm surprised they don't support (i.e., Sony SNC-RZ30N - but they support the PAL version SNC-RZ25N). Some VMSs allow you to enter a camera manually if you know the proper camera settings (like streaming directory). I suppose I could just download the trial version and see for myself, but if someone already knows the answer and could save me the hour or so of setting up the software, I would appreciate it!

A word of caution on the new p series low-light capabilities. I have a p3367-VE that uses the new low light sensor (though I don't think it's the Light Grabber technology), and from my experience with Axis, it has a pretty bad flaw with vertical lines showing up in the image during night mode. See my post here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=30322 Other than that, the camera is amazing in low light, especially considering it's a 3MP sensor. I'm eager to try out one of the new models with built in IR, and perhaps at a lower MP, the vertical lines won't be an issue. Anyone know when Axis will actually release the new models?

Anyone seen this problem with the p33 series from Axis? Here's a p3367-VE I recently installed. As Axis is known for, it's got great image quality and solid frame rates, even at 5MP. The problem I ran into is when you view the camera in BW mode, there's a very prominent vertical line running from top to bottom in the left 1/3 of the screen. Here's a day shot to show that no vertical lines are present: Now here's the night shot where you can see the vertical line clearly: Now for the good part Axis sent me a replacement. The bad part? I still see vertical lines even on the replacement. Though the line is not as prominent, but it's there nonetheless. And it appears that there are more than one line this time (I have other shots where the lines are more visible) Here: At this point I'm waiting to hear what Axis has to say. They claim that this is "interesting" enough to them that they want to send the camera to Sweden (?) to be checked out. This is my first experience with a p3367, but I've never seen this with any of their other cameras. Anyone else seen this on Axis or any other camera?

Interesting, Mike. It would be great if a firmware update would fix my vertical lines, but Axis never even suggested a firmware update. I suppose the camera is too new still...

Seems somewhat vague without specifying what the video contains. In the US there are privacy laws that depending on what is being recorded and where it is recorded, dictates what can be recorded, how long it can be stored (or how long it must be stored), and who is doing the recording/storing. For example, police surveillance that records public spaces have requirements around storage and access to archival video. There are federal guidelines around personally identifiable information as it pertains to data (DOB, SS#, medical data,etc.) which can also be applied to video when combinations of those data are recorded. At the state level it varies as to what can be recorded (i.e., audio) with the consent of those being recorded, but I'm not aware of any state statute that dictates how long a recording can be stored for private entities. There have been many cases where private citizens have been arrested for recording police , which the police claim is interfering with law enforcement. So in that case, you're not allowed to store it at all! It would seem to me that if that held legal precedent, then no one would be able to set up security cameras on the chance that they would capture police doing their work they don't want recorded. I also believe that specific industries have their own requirements for how long video is stored, such as the casino/gaming industry, but can't point to specifics as I have never done any work in that industry. I would be curious as to specifics around these laws in other countries, so please share if you can.

Any of the Mobotix resellers here know when the 24 version of the current DualNight M12 and D12 are coming out? Any other new models/products from Mobotix we should be on the lookout for? Really hoping for a D24 soon for an installation I'm doing in about 2 months...

buellwinkle, if you get a chance to test this out, that would be great. In my experience, it's a mixed bag from manufacturer to manufacturer (and even between camera lines within manufacturers) in terms of quality and what can be recorded. Axis p series cameras do an excellent job at recording to an SD card in terms of image quality and stated frame rates. I've found on their lower end (consumer line) M series, the quality isn't quite as good, and doesn't always keep up with specified frame rates at highest resolutions. The realtime streaming from the P series is excellent, while the M series is so so (I've had M5014s crash after streaming recorded clips). Hopefully, firmware updates will improve the quality of streaming recorded clips for the Axis M series. Samsung recording to SD card is really bad. Can't seem to record more than 5 fps at any resolution. Of course, the quality and type of SD card is also important (wouldn't use anything less than a type 4 - I use type 10 in all of my cameras, even though it's probably overkill, but I'm assured the throughput these higher MP cameras produce can be handled by the SD card).

If you're referring to simple events such as motion detection (MD) or detecting external triggers (alarms) an NVR is simply notified (via the connection stream) that an event has occurred, which the NVR then determines what to do, based on that specific event. For example, a MD event could mean that the NVR is to begin recording the video stream at 30 fps, send an email, and send an X10 command to turn on an exterior flood light. So the camera just provides the event trigger based on the camera processing the MD event, and the NVR decides how to respond to it. You may have read some threads on this board where people ask which NVRs are capable of detecting motion on the NVR or having to rely on the camera's on board processing to detect motion. There are benefits to both, of course. Other types of analytic you may be referring to such as people/object counters, people/object trackers, etc. are manufacturer/camera specific. For example, Axis has a development platform that you (or third parties) can write these types of applications that run on the camera. Based on your requirements, these cameras can simply send out event triggers or send specific data (i.e., the number of people counted going through a door each hour) to an NVR or other computer that would know how and what to do with this data. You typically only find this on-camera processing in higher end cameras. Intelligence at the Edge simply refers to the camera being able to do this type of processing. Storage at the Edge refers to the camera being able to record/store video on the camera (SD card) or to an attached storage device such as USB drive, NAS, etc.

I have never seen this on any other IP camera (even the cheapo $99 China cr*p cameras sold on eBay). More importantly, I've never seen it on any other Axis camera (and according to Axis, neither have they). So, they either know what's wrong and aren't telling me, or they really are clueless, which is even worse.

Here's the update. They've replaced the camera twice now (on my third one) and there is still the same problem. I'm quite surprised that Axis doesn't seem to care about this issue insofar as issuing a recall or offering a "buyback". They say that they are aware of the problem, but can't do anything about it now. I hope that this same problem is not seen on the new p3364 camera, touting their LightFinder technology. The p3367 has a different sensor the all the other p33's with a supposedly higher light sensitivity, which was why I went with this model. Now I'll wait and see how the new models with built in IR LEDs perform. I will say that the p3367 is excellent in very low light without any additional white or IR illumination.

I would check the figure again with a reliable network monitoring application. 20 mbit/s seems very low for all those cameras, especially at 30 fps. And the issue definitely appears to be network saturation or a switching problem. Is it possible/feasible to upgrade to gigabit ethernet?