nifter53

I'm also looking at a custom built luxroit PC with an analog card. Any experience?

I've been asked to install 12 indoor domes and 2 outdoor cameras at on old folks home, apparently they fight a lot... I normally sell exacq NVR's and IP/Megapixel cameras, but that's way over their budget. I'm looking for some recommendations for a tried and tested solution, nothing fancy. Indoor cameras need to be domes, no IR needed, no WDR needed, they cover common areas that have the lights on all day/night. 4mm fixed is fine. I may need 1 or 2 vari-focal. (4-10) The outdoor cams need to have IR up to about 20-25'. Gets to -30c here. As for the DVR, I'm open to either PC based or standalone. They have a capture cctv dvr at another location they seem to like. Their only requirement is they need 1 month of storage and can view/playback the footage from the DVR directly and over the internet via a windows application. Thanks for the suggestions!

Wow, haven't check this post in a few days and... I do appreciate all the feedback. I'm in a pretty diverse market (northern Canada). Businesses have little money but the public sector has a lot off funding. I do some IP work (axis, iqeye, stardot, arecont, exacq...) and... elcheapo chinese stuff (mostly for coffee shops and places when the owner want to see their staff/store from home) The real cheap chinese stuff has a horrible picture and the DVR's need to get rebooted once every few months, but they work for the most part just to see how busy your store is. The megapixel stuff look amazing and the exacq software is very reliable. To be honest though, these systems need some baby sitting. Firmware updates, network optimization, stoage optimization etc... The reason I 1st started this post is because I'm green to the "middle ground" market. The customer that wants something 100% reliable but not cutting edge technology. I know panasonic, sony, pelco, bosch are players, but leave those for the banks and jails. If I'm gonna spend money, I'll buy megapixel and do a bit of baby sitting. (that's my 2cents) I've gotten some good feedback that CNB is a reliable vendor and the cameras should be in the area of $150-300 retail, and a decent DVR (one without the poor english translation) should be in the area $1500-$2000 retail. In contrast, the coffee shop setups were using $40 cameras and a $200 pc based dvr (still working 1.5 years later)-my cost The IP setup was using $1000 cameras and an $8000 NVR (still working 1 year later)-my cost I guess my next setup will hopefulyl be using $100 cameras and a $1000 DVR (still working 10 years later)-my cost Thanks again for all the input.

excellent, feedback from the man himself 'rory'. So, I've taken your advice and found the following (below) retailers/distributors here in canada. Their selection seems limited (at least what they show online). But I did find the following. http://longtech.ca/phpcode/web/view_detail.php?product_id=1410 or http://longtech.ca/phpcode/web/view_detail.php?product_id=1378 and http://24vs.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=314 Funny thing, I only discovered this 24vs.ca site tonight while googling "CNB Canada". Oddly, their #1 selling camera is the speco CVC6146HR. LOL I'll take everyone's advice and stay away though.

I've read many good things about CNN here, but cant for the life of me find a Canadian distributor. I called speco today and got a login to their demo DVR system. For the price it seemed to work just fine. As for their cameras...no experience. If 150cad is high, what price range should I be near for basic domes and a 16 port DVR (with the mentioned specs)?

For the camera I'm thinking either a speco dome or a generic korean (below) SPECO ~$150 Resolution 550 lines Illumination .5 lux Format 1/3” format CCD sensor Lens 3.6mm lens Electronic Shutter 60-100,000m sec., 256 steps Output Video output/BNC Pick Up Device 1/4” image sensor interline transfer type 542 (H) x 492 (V) S/N Ration Better than 50db Sync System Internal Sync. Consumption Current 80 mA Gamma Correction 0.45 Operating Temperature 4°F to 131°F / 30 to 90% RH Power Requirements Reg. 12V DC power supply (UL & CSA listed) included Dimensions 4”Dia. x 2.5”H Weight 10.5 oz. GENERIC KOREAN ~$150 600TVL High-Res WDR Dome Camera 2.8mm~12mm Vari-Focal Lens -. 1/3” SONY Super HAD CCD II -. 600 TV Line Resolution -. 2.8mm~12mm Vari-focal, Auto Iris Lens -. 0.0001Lux (sens-up ×256) Day and Night Function -. WDR Wide Dynamic Range (Long and Short Exposure) -. True Waterproof (IP68) and Vandal Proof -. Digital Zoom (x1~x10) -. 3DDNR (3D Digital Noise Reduction) -. LSC (Lens Shading Compensation) -. DIS (Digital Image Stabilizer) -. Controlled by OSD Menu with Privacy, Motion Detection -. Easy Installation / 3-Axis -. DC 12V / AC 24V Dual Power Only And for the DVR... Speco DVR16TL250 16 Channel Triplex DVR 240FPS 250GB HDD ~$1000 The Speco has lower "specs" than the generic, but I'm unclear if the generic would actually produce a better picture?? Anyone have experience with the generic ones vs the brand names? BTW: everything is made in china anyway right.... Thanks again for the input!

The only downside to that is that the site manager can quickly do some price shopping to see how much $ I'm making. I'd prefer to purchase a system that they themselves couldn't go out and buy.

Hi there, I'm looking for an outdoor PTZ for an airport. I've narrowed it down to Axis. (I had considered bosch but they are still getting their onvif drivers fully rolled out for PTZ support) Does anyone have any experience with the below cameras? AXIS Q6032-E 35x D1 AXIS Q6034-E 18x 720p AXIS 233D 35x D1 My debate is whether to go for larger zoom @ D1 resolution or less zoom @ HD resolution. Thoughts?

Hey Mike, Thanks for the reply! I really like the sanyo HD5600, it looks great. The only problem is that one end of the runway is about 1km from the camera. I'm concerned that the 10x zoom will not be enough. The Axis 214PTZ I've got doesn't cut it with its 18x zoom. What distances have you used the HD5600 with. Also, do they make an outdoor enclosure for it? It's cold up here. Thanks again!

Just a quick question. What do you use to support dome cameras to drop ceiling tiles? Thanks!

Thanks for the replies. I was 1st thinking about using a 1"x4" board, screwing through the tile, then into the board. The board would be longer than the tile as to span across the metal grid. Thoughts?

Hi There, I'm putting together a system for a local airport. Here are the details so far. Server: Windows 2003 64Bit Dual Quad core Xeon @2.0 Ghz 8GB Ram 8x 2TB HD (Raid 5=12TB) Exacq Software Outdoor Cameras 4x Stardot 5MP H264 D/N 1x Stardot 1.3MP MJPEG D/N Indoor cameras (Here's the question) I have a budget of roughly 600-700/camera and I need 6 Cameras I'm currently testing the Vivotek FD8161 and the Acti TCM3511 I'm considering from the Arecont AV2100DN and AV3105DN and from IQINVISION the IQD31SI-F1 I would prefer a minimum resolution of 1.3MP, but will probably be ok with 720P for some of the cameras. 2 of the cameras can be box, but the others must be dome. The lighting is fairly consistant in all locations, overhead pot lamps. 4mm lens works fine for field of view. Does anyone have any experience with the above cameras, or know of a camera(s) that they have used in the past that would fit this budget and works well? Thanks!

It's for a local airport. 11 cameras. 5 Outdoor, 6 indoor. They keep the lights on 24/7 inside and light up the tarmack as well. The SSD drive have great access times, but I'm estimating I need 11TB of storage, so....

Server is a poweredge 510 with perc6/i. Drives are WD Black 2TB, on par with Raptor drives. IP KVM should not be necessary. Exacq will allow remote cam/server management and rdp will allow for remote os maintenance. Or was there another reason for suggesting this? Thanks!

The server is running 2k3 64bit and exacq is running fine on this. 2x quad core xeon 2.0ghz CPU and 8GB Ram. OS- RAID 1 (2X1TB)= 100GB OS partition and 1.9TB DATA DATA- RAID 5 (6x2TB)=9TB I'm hoping for 60 days retention. 4x5MP H.264 (I may reduce 2 cams to 1080p) and 1x 1.3MP Startdot outdoor cams and 4x 720p H.264, 1x 2MP H.264 and 1x 1.3MP H.264 indoor cams. I think I've decided on IQeye basic domes and Axis M1114's for the inside cams. I'm going to test the Vivotek FD8161 and Acti TCM-3511 to compare. anyone see issues?

one More thing... can you suggest a few dome cameras as well? Thanks again!

Wow! I couldn't have asked for a better answer! Thank you!

I purchased a 520TVL camera (811X508 pixel) and also purchased a 4port DVR card that supports 640x480 from my supplier. Being confused about the whole resolution thing, I asked them if the DVR card would only display/record at a resolution of 480, not 520. They said that no cards or stand alones on the market can support a resolution of 520TVL (811X508 pixel) or higher. So the question is. If you can't view or record any higher than 480, then why buy a camera that has a resolution of 520, 580, 600 etc? This all seems so simple, but yet so damn confusing...

As this is my 1st post, I'd like to say hi to all. I'm very new to the industry and this message board has been a great place for me to learn. So thanks to all that share their knowledge here. So, after much reading about different security cameras, I find myself confused about the camera specs & features vs. price. For example 2 different manufactures will list identical specs but one is 1/2 the price. Aesthetics, durability and longevity aside, will the image quality from a $200 1/4" Sony CCD 470TVL (ie. Bosch LTC1423-20 Flexidome) camera be roughly the same as a $50 1/4" Generic Chinese Sony CCD 470TVL camera. Being new to the industry, I will not be offered corporate or government contracts that have big budgets. Instead, I will be out there doing coffee shops and small clothing boutiques (I’ve got to start somewhere). I'm looking for sound advice about what to look for and what to avoid when looking at different camera manufactures. Thanks very much!

Hi There, Just wondering what the budget range is for most of your customers. I understand that there will be the $800 setups and the $8000 setups, but on average...what would you say is the average installed price for the systems that you normally setup? Or answer this way, what is the cost of your average 4/8/16 camera setup with DVR (Installed)? I'll be the 1st to answer. I've only done 3 setups so far and the average cost to the customer was $1200~$1700 for ~4 cameras and a dvr.

Once again. thanks for the great feedback. My goal is to plug away using a variety of inexpensive manufatures for the home/soho market and stick with "known" good manufaturers for the medium sized businesses. The known manufacturers seem pretty well documented here. Bosch, Panasonic, Nuvico etc. I'd like to see more about the "hidden gems". Like finding a great bottle of wine for $8. I really think there is a market for the small stuff. Just need to do some trial and error with different manufacturers to see which ones are a good bang for the buck. I'll do my best to post results from the different manufactures I test out, good or bad.

Hey Amsmt, I really understand your situation. I come from a computer backgound where everything is "pricematched". Dell sells a PC for $900, but you can get the same specs for $500 from acer. I was hoping to get away from this with the CCTV world, since many of the brands used are not disclosed. It seems now that with the CCTV world, end users are going to Costco and Tiger Direct and seeing systems with 8 cameras and a DVR for $800. Even the banner above this message I'm typing is advertising cameras for $38 and DVR's for $135. However, everyone here keeps mentioning how you can't get a decent system for that price, you need to spend thousands. I think my end goal will be to break the market into 3 audiences. 1) Home and Small Business: seldom requires legal action. System is used more for interest and the rare, "incident". The odd glitch is acceptable, image quality can identify faces in good lighting within close camera range. 2) Medium sized business: footage is used in legal matters both internal and external. no glitches can be present. Camera's can recognize faces during most lighting conditions and within medium camera range. (as for that 50camera grocery store setup, they rarely capture faces and the police frequently let the thief go). 3) Corporate/Government (they won't touch me for 15years...) As for prices... 1) SOHO: $250/Cam Installed, 4CAM-DVR$500, 8CAM-DVR$650 2) Small Business: $600/cam interior (exterior $800/cam) Installed, 4CAM-DVR$1200, 8CAM-DVR$1500, 16CAM-DVR$1700 I realize there are many other factors that contribute to the quote, lighting, building construction, distances etc. I feel that I'll be able to get the job done, that's not an issue. Rather I'm trying to figure out the best balance for me and the customer. I don't want to sell crap, I don't want to scare people off with outlandish prices. I want to make money and put in a reliable system that fits the end users needs. Thoughts?

I figuered there would be a huge range from the lows to the highs. The 1st few setups I did were for a customer that wanted to monitor their staff's "work ethic" and monitor their house. So essentially, it was only one customer that wanted 3 systems. I used a chinese manufacturer called winbo (SAV). Their equipment is so,so. I live in a very remote community and no one else in the area is willing to do survellience work. I've been asked to do maintenance on existing systems. Ie. a grocery store with 49 cameras and 2 DVR's. The cameras are panasonic and the DVR's are Capture and Viewgate (PC based). I feel the differences between the grocery store $20,000 setup and the one I did for my customer are pretty minor. Maybe the durability of the SAV stuff will show it's true colours in time. I've also quoted some higher end jobs(~$9000). One was for a fuel depot using stardot SC IP cams and a PC with Luxriot. But the fuel company gets rebates from imperial oil, the store setup I did is a mom and pop shop paying out of pocket. I figure if I'm the only show in town I've got to offer a range of options to cover everyone needs, big or small. This is why i've asked this question. I'm just trying to figure out what most businesses have in mind for a budget for survellience. Trust me, I'd like to sell everyone an $8000 system and never have to worry about it again, but that's not gonna happen.

Finally, Here's the images and layout. The store is about 25'x35', 3 cameras were used with a PC based DVR. I'm hoping to get some critical views on (1) Image Quality, (2) System Design (I know it's a very basic design). Thanks for your comments! CAM 2&3 1/3" SONY Super HAD CCD Lens: 3.6mm 420 TVL 24 IR LED 0Lux/F1.2 (IR ON) TILL CAM 1/3" SONY Super HAD CCD 520 TVL 4mm~9mm Vari-focul, Auto Iris Lens S/N Ratio:More than 48dB IR LED Unit:36 IR LED Synchronous System:Internal, Negative sync. Auto Electronic Shutter:NTSC: 1/60s~1/100,000s Gamma:R=0.45 Video Output:1Vpp, 75Ω DVR CARD frame rate: 120 fps H.264 resolution(s): 640 X 480, 352 X 288, 320 X 240 Compression ratio: average 150M/C/H And Some ScreenShots 330AM 730AM 330PM 450PM Layout

I've gone and done just as you suggested. But...seems I need a minimum of 5 posts to be able to link to the images. so... here's post 3