Zark

Has anyone used thermal imaging cameras? I need some advice. I want to do a research project evaluating the airway of sleeping subjects, comparing those with obstructive/mixed/central sleep apnea with normal controls. We want to see if degree of temperature change in the upper airway on a breath by breath basis, correlates with the % of airway obstruction/closure and most importantly, which part of the upper airway does not experience the expected temperature change thus identifying the location of airway closure. This is very important because right now no one is able to identify specific structures of airway closure during real time, so when people are referred for surgery of the upper airway to try and prevent sleep apnea and snoring, the surgeon performs a "general resection" instead of targeting specific tissue. Because the surgeon has no specific information as to what part of the airway to cut out, about 40-50% of the time the offending tissue is missed and the patient still has sleep apnea after going through very painful and expensive surgery. People occasionally die from this operation so there is a real need to locate the specific tissue or tissues causing the apnea, so we can either make the call to not operate or make operating a much more effective endeavor. I want to place a thermal camera right up next to a patient's neck while asleep, having apnea, and try to see the temperature changes within the neck from a side view. I need advice as to cameras, lenses and so forth. This would also enable people to have sleep studies without having to endure alot of wires placed all over the body. Any help or leads would be appreciated. Thanks ZK

There's just something about being able to see in the dark. I like it.

Thanks I was thinking in the neighborhood of $12K. Sure beats a million dollar MRI that won't really work well for this. (The conventional sleep lab setup including recording equipment and facilites costs over $100,000 per bed. These figures are fresh on my mind as we just expanded from 4 to 8 sleep lab beds.) ZK

We primarily do research from a neurological standpoint, including original investigations through Phase IV FDA clinical trials. This deal with sleep apnea is one of many things we think about on a daily basis. The truth is, CPAP is the most effective treatment but not everyone can tolerate that. The many types of throat surgery are never more than 60% effective, and the ENT's definition of "effective" is a 50% reduction of symptoms on a follow up polysomnogram, which many would not consider effective at all. So all surgical treatments are just not where they need to be. One of our colleagues (ENT) is actually doing a procedure similar in theory to Hyoid Suspension in which he cuts a rectangular piece of bone out of the front of the chin, rotates it 90 degrees and attaches it back over the hole. Since the tongue tissue is attached to that chin bone, the forward advancement pulls the tongue a few millimeters ahead in an attempt to prevent it from relaxing back, occluding the airway. The problem is, many times the obstruction is lower in the neck, in an area the ENT's call the Devil's Triangle. They won't do surgery down there because complications are high. Right now we can't tell if the patient's problem includes this area. If we could see thermal images to locate this problem, then we would know exactly who surgery would work 100% for and be able to identify those in which surgery would not be successful. That would be a great advancement. Sleep Medicine in general is about 30 years old. Relatively new. There's lots of things we have just not thought about yet. Thanks for the replies, and rory, thanks for giving me some advice on cameras, etc. That's information I needed. Our facility website is: www.raleighneurology.com ZK

Sony tech support said the cameras' upper voltage range was 29 VAC and it should work fine. ZK/Zark

If 24VAC runs cooler, is better for long wire runs and is less prone to surge damage, then is there any situation where you would choose to use 12VDC? Are there any advantages of using 12VDC over 24VAC?

Thanks Pardon the newbie...

So what kind of cameras should I use for digital video?

Rory, what do you mean by "pixelized?"

I turned off automatic mode change and placed a jumper between COM and pin #1 and it went into B&W mode. When I took it off, the camera goes into color mode. Since I only need one camera per room and they all will be recording different patients, I'll just run a control wire to a switch at the monitoring station. Thanks for your ideas! Another thought...to avoid having to run a switch, I like the idea of using an adjustable light sensor with a relay. Where, exactly, can I buy some of each and what should I buy? Thanks Z

I have several SSC-E473 SuperExwave color cameras that automatically switch from day to night mode when the lux gets low. By the time they switch, the image is really dark and basically useless. I need to externally, manually, trigger them to switch much earlier. (I have IR lights.) I'm sure the instruction sheet supplied by Sony makes sense to you experienced people but I'm having a hard time with it. It says: Pin #1 External Control Output. Outputs the color and B&W switching signal. Pin #2 COM Ground for External Control In/Out. Pin #3 External Control Input (Accepts high impedance signals only) When H (+5V) is applied between this terminal and COM, color mode is selected; When L(0V) is applied, B&W is selected. How do I wire this? Thanks Zark

I work in a medical facility that records brainwave and sleep study tests using special software developed in Australia. The software company specifies using Winnov digital video capture cards. All I can say is when we tried using the Winnov Videuum 1000AV card with B&W it blurred the image. (Image was perfect until it ran into the card.) Now we are adding more computers and I need to buy more of these cards, now updated to Winnow 1000 PLUS AV. I called the company today and asked if the new cards were any better at recording EIA B&W than the old cards. The tech support guy was not aware there were any past problems with the old cards when recording B&W. This is in spite of the fact that their website lists a known problem of the old cards recording B&W with some cameras. What I had to do to get good video with the old cards was to switch from EIA B&W to color NTSC and that recorded fine. I still have the B&W equipment and want to use it with these new cards but am concerned that I might be in the same situation as before. Has anyone used the Winnov 1000 + AV cards with B&W cameras? What do you think of Winnov? I suppose I don't have much of a choice in the matter. thanks

Thanks for the replies. I finally was able to speak with Sony tech support this afternoon and the guy said I had to use an external DC power supply and "apply +5 volts to pin #1 to switch modes. Pin #2 goes to earth Ground. Pin #3 will produce +5 volts when +5V is applied to Pin #1 so other cameras can be triggered on down the line. Pin #1 takes a TTL level, high impedance signal." That's what he said. I had him repeat it to be sure. Thanks Zark

Thanks to both of you. I'll try it tomorrow. [Has anyone out there installed these cameras?] Am I the only one using these things?

It does have an adjustment for either 5 or 1 lux but it loses resolution/color at higher (dim) light levels. I need to see the subjects lit up on infrared if not using bright enough visible light. By the time the cameras switch, the picture has been very poor to useless. This is in a lab, recording video on seizure patients and the technicians turn down the incandescent lights to keep patients calm. So it would be fine to be recording the pts using infrared while all they see is low incandescent light. However, the doctors want good color when the lights are up. That's where I'm at. thanks