MiamiRob

Hello. In 2010, my condominium installed a new security system. Because my career is in Technology, I had an IP-based camera and access control system installed rather than an analog system. Many members of this forum gave me excellent advice about that system and I continue to be very appreciative of that help. IN BRIEF: I am posting to ask if anyone knows of a camera manufacturer who sells PTZ video analytic cameras. I am trying to replace two broken Ioimage PTZ cameras. Ioimage no longer sells PTZs, they only sell fixed cameras. I would like to find another video analytic PTZ vendor. IN DETAIL: About fifteen of the sixty or so IP cameras installed the property of the condominium at which I live are Iomage video analytic (VA) cameras. Five of the cameras are PTZs. Two of these five PTZ cameras are broken and cannot be fixed. (The cameras were damaged in a strong storm.) Ioimage no longer sells video analytic PTZs. They only sell fixed VA cameras. Ioimage has offered to replace the two broken cameras with new PTZs for $2,500 which is we paid for the cameras originally. In that Iomiage no longer sells PTZs, I would prefer not want to use their PTZ product. I would like to find another video analytic PTZ manufacturer that is committed to the PTZ VA business. I would like video analytic cameras that perform the video analytics within the camera itself, not using a central server. The Ioimage have internal analytics software and this has worked well. Ideally the PTZ cameras from another vendor would accept "hand-offs" from our existing Ioimage fixed video analytics. The Ioimage cameras have worked very well in terms of their video analytic capabilities. However, there have been reliability issues. Over time, we have had problems with both the Ioimage fixed and PTZ cameras. With the fixed cameras, the infrared filters have all had to be replaced. Because of a manufacturing defect, the IR filters would move into place but then not retract. At first, our security company was sending the cameras back to Ioimage one-by-one for repair as the filters failed. However, when Ioimage finally realized that there was a widespread problem, they sent someone to our building to replace the filters in all our fixed Ioimage cameras. Prior to the current PTZ failures, we have had two of our five PTZs fail at various points. The PTZs just kept spinning continuously. Because the PTZ failures happened in the first year under the warranty, Ioimage replaced the cameras free of charge. Our building is totally sold on the value of video analytic cameras. We feel that the cost is well justified. The ability of the cameras to make intelligent decisions about events and alert our guards only when required has been tremendously valuable. The "hand-off" from fixed cameras to the PTZs works very well. (Assuming the PTZs are functioning properly.) I have personally spent hundreds of hours learning about and configuring the cameras. I have done everything from performing the initial camera set-up to configuring the system to alerts the guards when the video analytics detection rules send the guards alerts about intruders and other events. The initial setup of the camera requires some work. The slope of the ground, height of the camera, etc., all must be entered correctly or the video analytics does not work well. I am sure that many of you who are professionals are better versed in these cameras, but I thought I would take the liberty of telling you some of what I have learned: Ioimage considers the gold standard in video analytics to be fixed cameras. They view video analytic PTZs as "gravy". In the mind of Ioimage, ideally a property would be totally covered by fixed VA cameras because the fixed cameras have better resolution. Of course, complete coverage with fixed VAs is expensive so my building went with a combination of fixed and PTZ. The fixed cameras, based on how they are programmed, "hand-off" to specific PTZs. This works well except... 1) there are issues with determining priority in terms of which event (detected person) should be tracked. In that the fixed camera could detect another event while the PTZ is already tracking another event, it is possible that the PTZ could be instructed by the fixed camera to move away from an intruder to track something non-critical like a resident walking a dog when Security would rather the cameras track a stranger walking on the sidewalk a hundred feet away. 2) Fixed cameras can hand-off detected events (e.g., an intruder) to other fixed cameras and to PTZ cameras, but PTZs are NOT able to hand-off events to other PTZs or to fixed cameras. In other words, in terms of telling other Ioimage video analytic cameras what is going on, PTZs are dumb. 3) Once a event is handed-off by a fixed cameras to a PTZ, if the tracked subject moves out of PTZ camera range and is not detected by another VA fixed camera, tracking will stop. UNLESS another PTZ camera happens to be in a position to view the subject and is enabled to autonomously detect and track. In this case, tracking of the subject by the second PTZ will begin. BUT if a fixed camera configured to hand-off events to the PTZ instructs the PTZ to monitor another event, the subject\intruder initially being tracked will be dropped by the PTZ and the new instruction from the fixed camera will become the priority. In other words, fixed video analytic cameras run the show. PTZs follow instructions from fixed. 4) a PTZ camera can function without accepting a hand-off from fixed cameras and can perform its own video analytic detection and, when an event is detected, the PTZ will start tracking. This works well, however the loss of the PTZs ability to accept hand-offs from fixed VA cameras is a loss of functionality. Ideally there are enough cameras so it is that all PTZs work in hand-off mode. 5) Note: Rules can be set up to allow a PTZ to do its own video analytic detection as well as accept detection hand-offs from fixed cameras, but this setup can create big problems with detection priorities between fixed and PTZ cameras. If multiple events are detected simultaneously, the PTZ can end up quickly jumping between detected events. I sincerely appreciate any info or advice that anyone can provide about video analytic camera vendors. While I would like to know about video analytic PTZ cameras, I am also interested in hearing people's experiences with fixed video analytic camera brands other than Ioimage. Thank you. Rob

Does anyone know if Keyscan access control software requires that a file server running some type of Keyscan software be installed or if Keyscan does not need a file server and stores the configuration and all events in the various boards that come with the system? The security company installing the system in my condo building has a server listed as one of the required compenents for the Keyscan system but I don't see any mention of a server in the literature in the Keyscan site. http://www.keyscan.ca/English/Products_SystemVII_E.html Thank you very much. Rob

Thank you, Sawbones. Rob

I missed seeing your post when I was reading earlier today. All I can offer is that if any of you ever need help designing or supporting a computer network or have any questions about servers, switches, routers, LANs or WANS, I will be happy to help. Also, if any if you are ever in Miami and would ever like to see my condo's security system once it is installed, I will be happy to give you a tour. In that the Ioimage PTZ lead time is about ten weeks, we will not have everything online until late July. Working on this is one of the most interesting things I have done in a while. You all have taught me so much. Thank you. Rob

Thank you for the info, Rory. On a fixed camera, what is the purpose of the wire that connects from the lens to the body of the camera? Is there a motor in the lens that allows the camera to be focused using software? Robert

I cannot thank everyone enough for this great information and advice. It is incredibly helpful. PTZ cameras don't need to be focused at the camera side, do they? Can't PTZ be focused using software on the computer. Or do PTZs auto-focus? Robert

I sincerely appreciate the input. And, yes, the cameras are IP cameras. In situations where a laptop is not able to be used because there is no wired or wireless network connection available at the camera location, (other than the connection for the camera itself) how is focusing and positioning typically handled? Assuming there are two or more people working on the install, is the person at the camera talking to another person who is looking at a monitor somewhere else on the property and getting instructions\feedback that is used to positioned and focus the camera? In terms of wall-mounted fixed cameras and PTZs, how much time would typilcally be allocated to install each of these types of cameras assuming that confuit and cabling are already in place. Thank you all very much. Rob

Based on everyone's experience, how much time is typically required to install a typical dome camera in a hallway drywall ceiling assuming that cat6 and wiring for power (not using POE) have already been pulled through conduit from the main tech room to the installation location? Is it resonable to say, on average, that the camera could be connected to the wiring, mounted in the ceiling and aimed\focused in two hours? Or is that too much or too little time? Thank you. Rob

OK. I will stay with wired cameras in the clubhouse. Thanks for the advice. Rob

I am posting to request comments on the possibility of using wireless cameras in the 4000 sq. ft. clubhouse of my condo building instead of the wired cameras currently planned for installation in that space. The clubhouse is being rennovated. The space was completely gutted and is now being in the process of being built-out. Work on the building is expected to be completed in late July. Soon, conduit will be installed for about six security cameras that will be placed in the clubroom and gym. I would like to consider using wireless cameras to save the cost of conduit, wiring\connecting. I would also like the flexability to be able to add cameras in the future without needing to run cable. Today, I began wondering if wireless cameras will work in this space. A wireless access point is planned for the clubroom so we already are putting wireless in the building. Thanks to all the great advice and input I have received in these forums, we are installing a property-wide IP camera system that I think will pretty great. The system will be supported by two redundant Cisco 3750 switches in the main tech room and a Cisco 2960 switch in each of two other locations on the property. Wireless access points are being installed in the main lobbies, the clubhouse and at two or three exterior areas around the property. I would really like to use some wireless cameras in the interior spaces if there are wireless cameras that perform as well or better than fixed wired cameras. Are wireless cameras even something I should consider having installed or are wired cameras always better in security systems? I know that Cisco makes wireless cameras but I do not know anyone who has ever used them. (Not that the wireless cameras would have to be made my Cisco.) Thank you. As always, I sincerely appreciate everyone's help and advice. Rob

As a follow-up. the monitors we will use are: Five HP ZR22w 21.5" monitors for each of the lobby desks. http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&objectID=c02000523&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN#A0 Link to detailed monitor specifications http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c02000657 The monitors support DVI. They cost about $350 which is about $100 more than the original monitors but, in addition to having DVI inputs , the monitors have a higher resolution and are height adjustable. Thank you for the help on this, Matt. Rob

Matt, Thank you very much for catching that the monitors are VGA-in only. I totally missed that. I definitely want the monitors to be connected DVI. I will try to find a monitor that accepts both composite and DVI inputs. If such a monitor is not available at a reasonable price, I will find an adaptor. Rob

In the lobby of our condo building, there will be two security desks. The desks will be mirror images of each other. Each desk will have five 22" monitors. -- Monitors one and two will be used for the camera system. -- Monitor three will be used for the access control system. -- Monitor four will be connected a general purpose computer. -- Monitor five will be used to communicate with visitors that arrive at the front gate. We are installing a system that will allow arriving visitors to see\talk with a lobby guard when the visitors' cars pull up to the front gate. The security company has suggested the following monitor: HP Smart Buy LE2201W 22" Widescreen LCD http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884469-3949223.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN The monitor looks ok to me. However, I've never had to select a monitor for a security desk. I would like to make sure that the monitor is ok before we purchase ten of them. Any comments and \or advice would be appreciated. Thank you very much. Rober Robert

Does a supervised strike cost a lot more than a normal strike to buy and\or to install? It sounds like a great idea. I never even thought about the possibility of someone preventing a door from locking by taping the strike back. Rob

Thank you tomcctv. That's very nice of you to say. The progress I have made with my building's system design would never have happened without all the great input that you and others on this site have so generously provided. I am sincerely appreciative. Rob