Birdman Adam

Looks like that DVR can only do 30FPS at 4CIF, can't even do D1 at all.

Your images you just posted are very interesting - really shows how different settings will help with capture! I don't think the DVR I've chosen can duplicate views on to other channels. If I need to manipulate a picture, (contrast, brightness, polarize, etc) I can use GIMP to do that easily. Looks like contrast can help out a lot to bring out the difference between the plate background color and the lettering color.

Aren't these percentage values always a percentage of the cameras view? The distance at which I'm capturing doesn't really matter, as long as the plate takes up at least 18% of the pixels. For D1 resolution, we have 720x480 = 345,600 total pixels 345,600*18% or 0.18 = 62,208 pixels So the license plate must make up at least 62,208 pixels to be readable by a human. According to the manual, the REG-X maintains a shutter speed of 1/1000 all the time - shouldn't have any problem with blur there. All I need is the REG-X - I'm only capturing cars that are starting out about 10 feet in front of the camera. After that they are pulling directly away from it, there will be plenty of time in which the plate will be above even 30%. Maybe I should draw another overview, as the camera pole will now be only a few feet off the side of the road, looking down a ~200' straightaway, up a slight hill. Angle will be less than 30 degrees. Calculation shows the 16mm lens will be perfect for viewing the right lane of the street, and a wider view after that. (Our street is not full width, each is actually about 7' wide).

Looks like less-than-good DVR recording to me. I bet if you plugged the camera right into the composite input on a TV it would look so many times better.

Don't ya just hate it when problems arise from stuff like that? I can't tell you how many times one little thing messes up a system like that so easily... And then when you figure it out, you give yourself a big slap on the head!

But what he's saying is they base their distance recommendations on what a computer (presumably with their software) needs to see a plate accurately. I do agree that us humans can still read plates better than computers, which means I have a little more room than what they say I do.

That's very interesting that that could be a problem! From the AL-400's specification sheet: It looks like the DVR I've currently chosen would be able to switch to 2CIF if it is really needed. I'll also be sure to record at a full 30FPS with the picture quality setting maxed out. I'll only be using 2 channels with a 500GB HD. Are there recommendations really for ALPR??? I'm kind of surprised. So I guess I have a bit more leeway than I thought.

OK, so I must use 30FPS. I can do that. I don't see how recording D1 instead of 4CIF would be a problem. Sure there might be a few lines of noise at the top, bottom, or sides, but that doesn't matter. The camera's view is still there. I realize the LP camera only views IR light. Thats why I aso have a WDR for getting car details. I would say 80% of the cars going in go about 28MPH. Remember this is going to be viewing up a steep hill. The other 20% either go 20MPH or 35MPH. No-one looking for trouble is going to be going 50MPH into our neighborhood, before they have even done anything, especially up the hill like that. The viewing dimensions at 20' are perfect to view the right lane up close, and the whole road farther back. I am going to put the WDR viewing towards the main road, and the LP camera viewing up the hill. That way if anyone whacks it, the vandal dome should be able to handle it, with the LP camera recording plates from the back.

So how about the Nuvico AL-400? It does 120FPS at D1, so I can easily do 30FPS on each of the two channels. Compression is h264, supposedly better than the others. USB backup appears to be easy, as I read through the manual. Networking looks nice, with what appears to be a client program that can be set up on others' computers.m A little bit about the Siamese I may be getting: It comes with pure copper center conductor, but the shielding is pure copper with an aluminum foil underneath that. Will the aluminum be a problem? May be a pain to peel back, but I don't see any other problems, as the copper layer is still on top of that. Its funny that the siamese with the extra aluminum shielding costs more than the siamese without it...

-I agree that I should have 30FPS on at least the LP camera, and preferably on the WDR cam as well. -So sounds like most DVRs will auto-restart. -I will go with a UPS, sounds like its worth it. -That EB1304 looks like a good DVR! Anyone have first-hand experience? How about compression? Looks like I would have to buy hard drive separate? Looks like they have a good list of recommended models.

The thing I'm debating right now is; if the DVR can start right back up after a few second outage, do I really need a UPS? I suppose its going to stop the DVR from having to start back up after every little blip.

-I'll go with a weaker post. Safer in an accident, plus if someone whacks it, may fall over and satisfy them instead of getting out to beat it. -Moving the camera downhill some and looking the other way is a great idea. That will reduce my angle some, and cars will be going slower in and up the hill. Plus, if someone has just robbed a house, they would drive out quick, not drive in quick. -Since the DVR location will be near networking anyways, I'll go ahead and tie in with their router & set up DDNS host to their modem. That is a good idea to be able to test weekly, and other homeowners can be in on it too. -I'll look into a UPS (750VA) as well!

I'm not sure what I could really do to help that... I can't really put a bullet in an enclosure, I can't mount it high, because plate capture won't be good. The actual chances of someone getting out of a car to hit the low mounted bullet camera instead of the vandal-dome are pretty low. Even the chances of a simple mailbox-baseball incident most likely won't happen. Also, I'd have to check, but we may have insurance that would apply to the setup.

-Even on the separate post, The max height of the LP camera was going to be ~3', with the normal camera above it at ~4'. We have some people who like to play mailbox baseball, so having the valuable camera lower on the pole reduces risk of damage. The vandal-resistant dome should kick away a bat easily: -This post would be mounted fairly close to the road, on the neighbors land. Probably 1-3' from the edge of the road. -I know I'm only catching plates in one direction, because NC only requires rear plates. Our neighborhood is a straight entrance street, with a 1 mile loop at the other end of it. This is the only road in or out. -Both the DVRs I have suggested so far will record both channels at 15FPS each D1 resolution. -I really don't need any networking capabilities, as there isn't a point in live viewing a license plate camera. -Once I get familiar with what ever DVR I choose, I will be making a simple 'instruction manual' on how to retrieve data, so anyone can get the video even if I'm not there. -Can DVR's be set to start back up after a power outage? This is really necessary as we have a lot of power blips long enough to shut computer and the like down. I know in computers you can set auto-power-restart in BIOS? -Oh, and I know this only shows who came and went. Coupled with the multiple separate systems individual homeowners have (including mine), identifying cars shouldn't be a problem. In the event of a crime, we can eliminate cars one by one until we have a list of unknown cars left. Would only really be 1-2 at the most.

The heading of the road was 21 degrees. 21+35 = 56 degrees. The line is actually at 35 degrees relative to the road, but I had to use google earth's heading measurement which is relative to north. It actually worked out pretty good! I would give/take a few feet because I'm not sure how accurate google earth's ruler is.

After reading around, "Never-Focus" doesn't look like such a good idea... How about the Nuvico EVL-405N.

Yep, looks like Siamese is better in the long-haul. Plus, I've figured out its cheaper to run conduit and two siamese runs instead of two runs of direct burial siamese. Any opinions on the ECOR4F-250 DVR?

Really? Theoretically it will work, but I guess I'll go back to 16/2 or 18/2 and one cat5. Any comments on this:

But the thing is cars driving by will always get into that range. I might not get a car at 50', but as it drives up the hill, I'll get it at 20'. I don't need to look at the very end of the street, as the straightaway has no houses on it between the camera location and the main road. I just need to eventually get it going up (or down) the road. Also, it would be cheaper for me to buy 1000' of cat5, instead of 500' cat5 and 500' 16/2. Then I will use two pairs from one cable for video, and all pairs on the other cable for power. I calculated voltage drop at 2 amps, and it looks fine. I should be running less than 1.5 amps anyways. Oh, and new diagram:

Yea, I was a little surprised at the price too! Looks like I am getting one of the cheaper ones even, at ~$800. They easily go to $1-3k. But those are for much harder applications. The good thing about this project is that its is split up through a homeowner's association. So out of ~30 homeowners, each will pay less than $50 for the initial setup. Plus, with the way everyone is fed up with these criminals, they are happy to pay!

CRAP! I totally put the view the wrong way!!!! Yea, the way you drew was the way I was thinking of going! Well, it looks like my plan is starting to come together... I'll use that REG-X-816-XE for capturing plates, one of CNB's WDRs for car detail. Does anyone have a problem with mounting a CNB dome vertically, as opposed to the usual horizontally? I don't want rain-drops to obscure view. On the other hand, I don't want idiots to be able to rip it off too easily from a pendant mount. Although the post is only going to be 4-5 feet tall, so maybe it doesn't matter... Power will be ran in conduit through 16/2 wire. I'm still looking for a nice place to buy 500' spool of cat5... DVR will be housed in the basement of the neighbors house, probably near where the utility feeds in. Now no power runs are needed, just a power strip plugged into an existing outlet to power monitor, DVR, and camera PSU. Does anyone have an opinion on how good the DVR I chose is? Can DVRs be set to turn back on after power outages? Digging trenches is nothing new to me, I've done it before to run power+water to my aviary! "Ditch-Witch" works good. Plugging 10' sections of PVC conduit together, cementing each connection, is going to be the worst part! And I can't forget to call out the guys to mark all underground lines like electricity, water, telephone, TV... Wouldn't be nice to cut into a 7200 volt power line! The distance from the neighbors mailbox to the main road is almost 180', so distance from end of road to camera pole would be about 175'. Width of the road is almost 16'. There is no lanes, per say. The road isn't really wide enough to mark lanes, so people usually go down about the center. I really need to get (almost) the whole width of the road, because people may drive to the right, or left. So you could say width of the camera view should be 8' at the least. Car speeds are usually less than 35mph, always less than 50mph; (if you go any faster, you'd fall of the road easily). That being said, the license plate camera I have chosen, (REG-X-816-XE), has a fixed 16mm lens, 1/3" sensor. Quoted plate capture distance is 15-25 feet. This makes the cameras view at 20' downwind 6'x4.5'. Actually will fit fairly well. especially because road will be viewed all the way down the line, so even if car isn't in initial 20' area, plate should be captured soon after.

Man, you guys have so many ideas better than mine! It makes way more sense to run direct-burial Siamese to the house & set up the dvr in there! especially because the enclosures I was looking at were like $300+. Even better: I'll go with direct burial/or in conduit cat5 for signals (2 cameras) and run 16/2 for power. With good baluns, video should make it 400ft, right? And with 24VAC power, any loss should be small, especially with 16ga wire. At first glance the camera you suggested looks good - I'm going to look into it!

Thanks for the advice! I know I am in for some tinkering, but thats OK, part of the fun! Here's a quick diagram of the area: Now that I think about it, that REG-X technology looks good! So new idea: -REG-X-816-XE for capturing license plates This gets plates, but doesn't really provide vehicle recognition, will work day/night without other light sources -VCB-34VF w/lens probably maxed out to 10.5mm for vehicle model/detail recognition WDR will help get good vehicle details, and should work in day and some at night (REG IR will help), wont usually get plates This seems like a better solution than trying to use a 'normal' camera to get plates. Plus, it simplifies the amount of things to buy, one psu, no camera enclosure, etc. So on to DVR and enclosure? I've been looking at this DVR: http://www.everfocus.com/product.cfm?productid=2&tab=specs It's small and cheap, but I don't need anything high-powered. Does it come with a power supply? It looks like it would be easy to retrieve information. Features and connections look good. The HD is 250GB, but I'll only be recording on 1 or 2 channels, at D1, 20-30FPS each, so it should last 2+ weeks, which is all we need. The last thing I'm really at a loss for is an enclosure...

Thank you for all the information so far! Sounds like I'll be morphing my ideas a lot, which I kinda figured might have to happen. So, about the post. Scruit, you were right on the money - A neighbor very near the entrance has already volunteered to have the camera setup on his property - besides the road. About the pole. I simply have no idea of where to obtain a nice looking 5-6 foot tall metal post - hollow on the inside for wiring. I do like the metal idea more, will probably look better. GL0550AV link: http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=952 BBB-34VF link: http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1141 About the cameras. I guess I just cant figure out in my mind why I would need such a big lens! I mean the road is about 16 feet wide, with a 50 yard straightaway at the beginning. The road doesn't have lanes, everyone just kinda drives down the center. Seems to me just maxing out the default lens to 10.5mm would be fine. If I used a 50mm lens, it would be looking at such a narrow part of the street, cars would be hit and miss. However, I'm no expert, so I want to defer to you guys. How about a BBB-34VF - the box version of the VCB-34VF, with the GL0550AV lens. That lens is from 5-50mm, a much bigger range of adjustment. Lots more playing room! Since it looks like I'm now going with box camera(s), I need to think about enclosures! Obviously they need to be secure and lockable. All metal would be needed. Do I really need a heater/fan combo? Temperatures would be from 5-95 Fahrenheit. Of course partial sun hitting the enclosure would probably raise the temperature? Do you guys have a brand recommendation? All the ones I've looked at online are aluminum, and most have heaters/fans, but its unclear what size they are, how they open, can they be locked, etc. Also, are the mounts on box cameras and box camera enclosures all universal?? How does the "EVERFOCUS EVER3512"(just google it) enclosure look to you all? The "WDH-605HB"? Do you guys just use nonmetallic ENT tubing like this to connect between the camera enclosure and dvr enclosure? The power supply for the camera(s) will be a normal wall-wart, spliced in. I already have a nice 12VDC one. Now it looks like most heater/fan combos in enclosures use 24VAC, so maybe Ill have to buy one of those instead... I found a nice 24VAC 20VA wall-wart. That works out to about 833 milliamps. That will definitely fit a BBB-34VF. However, the illuminator may put me over the top... Now for illumination... Those raymax units look good, although rather expensive. How about the "VT-IR124-24"? I can't see any type of visible light going in on the pole, could blind people at night too easily. Does anyone have a recommendation for a weatherproof enclosure for the DVR and power supply?

I think that may still be the problem: Maybe the voltage drop is reducing the composite signal to a point where the DVR doesn't like it, but the monitor will still show it. If you have another (bigger) power supply, it wouldn't hurt to try!