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If I read the website correct, Derwent makes the Extreme IR Illuminators?

I will try to print the wiring diagram out tomorrow, then scan it, and try to post it here. I am in the process of building another panel for a vacation home I am building, but this panel is Stainless Steel. No, I couldn't afford to buy it new, but found it a local garage sale. Grandpa died, Grandma sold everything. Grandma wasn't allowed in garage while Grandpa was working on projects, so all "projects" got sold for $10 each. Bought a few of them. The main reason I started this , was that I love my color JVC cameras. Of all the color cameras I tried in the last few years, couldn't beat my JVC. Only thing that beat my JVC color camera was "nightime". Went out and bought Pelco b/w for nightime. Added IR. Reminded me of the old "Reeses " candy ads. Remember?.. Chocolate..Peanut Butter. How can you get them both together??? Then one day, accidently,my neighbor said " too bad you can't make one work only in the day, and one work only at night. " I hate to be challenged like that. Lets see...make things simple....no control boards....inexpensive parts.....hey, what did I do for a living for over 20 years? I built and installed industrial electrical panels. I figured that if I could build 3 phase 480vac panels, I could surely build a simple panel to control 24vac cameras . Sat down and wrote a simple wiring diagram of what I wanted. Wired it up and made it work. Can't patent something that simple. Just wanted to make sure it worked "realtime", so mounted it and have had it working for, guessing, around 10 months. As soon as I can figure out how to post the wiring diagram, I will. After I do, I hope everyone who wants one will go out and build one. Maybe someone will come up with something to make it better, and share that with all of us. If someone will let me know how to post pictures, etc. in this forum, that would help me.

One thing I never thought of , yet, is to mount the 12vdc inside my "photocell panel" to turn on my infrared lights (the ones I am testing are 12vdc). In looking at the Extreme panel further, I believe they are using control boards inside their panel to control amount of IR light on their cameras. Much like using a "dimmer" on your home lighting. Actually , just a rheostat inline with power. If I put 12vdc in my panel, I might have to add a small fan to help keep it cool. So far, I have not had to do that. If I put a fan inside, I will have to add a vent also, but have had to do that before. I would punch a 1/2" hole in the bottom somewhere, install Myers hub, and thread in a 1/2" bronze air vent from a pneumatic system. This keeps critters out, but allows air to move inside panel, being as it is outdoors. Lets see if I can point anyone to the Grainger catalog, for use as a reference in this panel. Relay, Grainger part no. 2W929 (only 8 pin).Photocell, Grainger part no. 6P007. I don't normally buy parts at Rat Shack unless I have to. Remember, Grainger is just for reference. They supply a lot of industry. Heck, maybe someone could buy this stuff at Wally World!! I think if someone were "stumped" on this panel, that it would be a great project for a local high school student electrical classroom to design and build. Buy the parts for them, and give them a reward for designing it!! You might be helping the next CCTV generation make a career move!

Actually, this design is about as simple as you can get !! My panel is 12"X 12"" and I have TONS of room left inside panel. I can actually add a circuit for 12vdc (which I am going to try this weekend). I could have used a lot smaller panel, but just had this one lying around. You can go to Home Depot and get a simple panel for this design for about $20. Photocell @ Home Depot- $6. Ice cube relays about $7 each. Right now, I have two "three pole, dual throw" Ice cube relays inside. This would power up to12 cameras, 6 b/w and 6 color. Assuming around 5 watts per camera or so, use a 120/24 transformer with at least 150va. There would never be more than 6 camera on at any time, so probably would never use more than 30-50 watts. I found an old 12vdc power supply board and will try to add this to my design tonight. Remember one thing, I just don't have the fancy control boards that show up on some "factory made " panels like this. I count on photocell to make the decision, and so does every streetlight in America!! Of course things fail, but my 6 dollar photocell has almost a year on it. When it "fails", my color cams will still work, it just wouldn't switch to b/w until I get a new photocell. But then again, I take a 6 inch piece of jumper wire and make them work for the night. I didn't invent this, believe me, as this is probably the simplest panel I have ever built. Let me figure out how to post wiring diagram, and all you out there can build this for yourself!!

"Ice cube tray"???Where did I write that?? ICE CUBE RELAY!!! You're killin' me!! Look in a typical Grainger catalog, or look at the Radio Shack website, something, to see what I am talking about. I guess since I have used thousands of them in my life, I take it that everyone understands what an "ice cube relay" is. That is what is used most in industrial applications. An "ice cube" is a clear relay, so you can see the contacts and what position they are in. In a dual throw relay, there are contacts which are normally "on" when the relay has no power to the coil. Then, there are contacts which make, after the relay has power to its' coil. Relays like this are used all over in industry, as they cannot be in both positions at the same time, which would be a bad thing for whatever machine you are trying to fire up. On an 11 pin relay, there are two contacts for the relay coil, whatever voltage you are using, and there are 9 pins left. Three that move, three that are normally closed, and three that are normally open but close when the relay get power to its' coil. These "ice cube RELAYS" plug in, and plug out, couldn't get more simple. The base has a matching wire termination points and matching pin receivers for the relay. Everything I made in my photocell controlled panel can be replaced within SECONDS. Somehow, you still need to make 24vac, and somewhere there has to be a transformer. 24vac is super common in residential. Your doorbell probably uses it, Your lawn sprinklers use it. Very safe voltage. You wouldn't want to work on 120vac lawn sprinklers valves, would you? Not me. Look around your house, in a closet somewhere, there is a transformer that transforms 120vac to 24vac for your doorbell, so people aren't killed when they ring your doorbell in the rain. Your thermostat control for your home furnace uses 24vac and should have a transformer somewhere at the furnace. In my photocell panel, I need 120vac for three things; #1the photocell itself,#2 the coil to fire the relays,#3 the transformer to go from 120vac to 24vac for the cameras. Somehow, I still have to make 24vac for the cameras, so may as well put the transformer in the same panel, and use a 120vac coil "ice cube relay", and may as well use a 120vac photocell. I will try to write a decent wiring diagram and post it when I get the chance.

I guess it could, it's just that I never put DC voltage that close to AC voltage inside a panel normally. I think I will try it this weekend and see what result I get. I built my panel for under $100, everything included, also the raintight panel. I don't use any "high tech" control boards , though. Ice Cube relays are about 7 bucks at electronic store, and they are easily replaceable. Dry contacts will last for years and years, I have a lot of experience with them. The contacts are rated for 10 amps each. Can replace ice cube relays in about 5 seconds!This type of panel building is pretty common place in industrial applications. In fact, most of my friends would laugh at me if I told them I built a "high tech" panel and used only two relays. I would help someone build this panel, I just wouldn't sell or market it. I basically got frustrated in trying to find the best cam in both worlds, so I went into panel building mode. I also built my own "bullet proof" camera housings out of stainless steel, but that's for another forum!

Hey, I used to build machinery panels all the time! Love building panels, especially new designs. I built panels which were over 6 feet wide by 6 feet tall. Programmable controllers inside. This day/night panel is far too basic for me to sell, anyone can build this in a day. Just remember, two voltages, 120vac and 24vac. Just keep them separate! If your cams are 12vdc, you will need to have another panel, as I wouldn't want to put DC voltage inside with all the relays, etc.( I might try that though, and test my 12vdc cams. ) Nowadays, all items are "DIN" mount on DIN rail material. Circuit breakers, fuses, terminal blocks, etc. etc. Everything I put inside panel is "UL listed". If you can mount security lighting, you could build this panel, believe me. Run one leg of 24vac to each cam, just like running neutral in AC wiring. Use relays to power other side of AC. Color cams (daytime) use the normally closed contacts on relays (11 pin). When light goes dark, photoeye trips, sends 120vac to relay coil(s), relays move to other side of contacts which are the BW cams. 11 pin ice cube relays are common and will allow 3 BW cams and 3 color cams on each relay. I use DIN mount fuse blocks, mini style. Fuse everything!!

Have done exactly that!! Use color cam in daytime and great Exview BW at night. I made my own control panel. Run all cam wiring back to it. Basically, get a decent size panel, I had an old one lying around.Needs to be a raintight panel at least. Mount a 120vac photocell on top . Use Myers hubs whenever you exit the panel, since it will be outdoors. You will need to make a backplane to mount all your accessories on, which will mount inside the panel itself. Punch three 1/2" holes in panel, one on top, two on bottom. You will need to use two 11-pin "ice cube" relays and sockets (Din mount) for six cameras (actually up to 12 cameras) These will be "3-pole, dual throw"You also need to mount three strips of "DIN" rail inside to mount everything on. Mount your transformer (at least 150 watt). You need a 120VAC power cord, three prong. The photocell will always have power, but when the lights go out, it switches on, and sends 120vac to the ice cube relays. The 24vac transformer is used on the stationary poles of the relays, and allows only one set of contacts to be made at any time. Run 120vac cord into one of the bottom hubs, and run all your 24vac (camera) wiring through the other. Must all be fused (again, Din mount fuses) though. I will try to get some pics up, but I built this last year and it works great for me!

I agree on the 18 versus 20 guage verdict. Wouldn't use 20 guage at all. Check out current carrying capacity of both. Especially when using 12 VDC. There is a reason that Electrical Codes have minimum sizes for residential,commercial, industrial, etc. Even have used 16 guage THHN many times. Must run THHN in conduit , though. Check this out for yourself though.

Just wondering who are the U.S.A. dealers for Sunkwang Cameras and DVR's? I have been hearing a lot of good things about them from installers, but none of them will tell me who their dealers are. (And they call themselves "friends"!!) Are Sunkwang cameras outsourced in another name?

Do you think that the CCD has a lot to do with realizing the benefit if the IR? For instance , does the Sony Exview CCD have better IR recognition than the other Sony CCD's? Do all the cameras you mentioned before have the Exview chip in them? I would think that the Exview CCD would make a camera "lower light" recognition, but since IR is a different wavelength, does it help?

It looks as though each of the Extreme models come in various wavelengths? In a past post, you also recommended keeping the IR light source away from the camera? or were you refering to the "all in one" IR cameras we see a lot of now? It seems to me, that the higher the wavelength of the IR (900 nm versus 740 nm) would be less visible to human eyes, but when does it get out of reach of the CCD of the cameras?

In using these Extreme CCTV cameras with IR, which IR wavelength do you most often recommend? And at what angle of view? I noticed that Extreme sells two different IR illuminators with two different LED wavelengths. Is there some sort of standard when it comes to IR? Such as " 2.8mm lens, viewing at 30 feet distance, should use XXXX wavelength and XXX degree field of view."

You're absolutely right on the Pelco EH3512's. Mostly what I use and install. I do also like the EH3508's, but here in California, not needing the fan and the heater too often. I lucked out last year, as I went to an auction at a local "self store" site. Someone didn't pay the bill on the unit, but when the owner went to open it and start the "bidding" process, I noticed dozens of these Pelco EH3512 and the 1450 mounts, but in the boxes. So no one bidding knew what they were. Bought the whole storage unit ( I won't state for how much) removed them, called the local sheriffs office and asked about the former owner. No problems. Just went out of business due to divorce. Just wanted to make sure they were not stolen from some contractor. Anyway, you won't be sorry by using the Pelco housings

Then I guess my "question, part 2" is; what are the top 5 best "true day/night cameras"? I expect this to be in everyones' personal opinion, but business related, of course.

I do not work for "Consumer Reports" or any manufacturer of power supplies, so I am not about to tell you that a certain power supply is safer than another one. Most of these power supplies that come with the lower end 12VDC cameras are very basic and simple. You have to be the judge of what effect , if any, would be if there would be a short in the wiring, or at the camera. I have worked in the Industrial Electrical field since the late 70's, so I see what large industry uses in terms of power supplies, power transmission, Ethernet cabling, etc. I see and use 12VDC all the time, along with many other voltages for control applications. In each case, I don't believe I have ever used or seen a power supply that wasn't fused, either on the control board, or inline somewhere. Please check with someone local who works in either commercial or industrial electricity, as a residential electrician might not be as familiar with circuit protection other than "home style" circuit breakers. Another good resource I have found, is a local Bussman Fuse representative, who will gladly tell you of upcoming lectures on the importance of fuses in all applications. Good luck!!

Just to test my UPS systems sometimes, I do just that. I unplug the unit from the wall and see how much time I get. Never had a problem doing that. One time, with just my home DVR and 4 cameras , I got 44 minutes of runtime with the UPS I mentioned. I also once tried it with my home 27 inch TV on the line also. With TV,DVR,4 cams, I got 23 minutes of runtime on the UPS. When you state that you plug the cameras directly into the UPS, you should be cautious of that, as you should really have some sort of circuit protection inline ,( i.e. fuse for each camera.) along with a decent power supply in place. Look on many manufacturers sites for these fused power supplies and control panels.

Take a look at the Ultra ULT31502 in the 1000VA model. You just can't beat this for 70 bucks! I have bought many of these from TigerDirect, and never had any problems. Just be sure to charge it for a day or so before you plug your devices in and count on it. Looks like you only want to spend $50 or less, but just like going out automobile shopping, you end up spending more than you planned, but you know because you shopped, you got a good deal.

Has anyone done installs on the Panasonic 484 series? The only person I know who has done any at all is a good friend of mine who just put in 3 of them at a local motel which has had problems with hoodlums in their parking lot. I haven't had a chance to get to see them in use however. The motel owner wanted the day/night application as he had "googled" some information I guess, but couldn't himself to get on a ladder and climb up two stories to the eaves of his motel, therefore my friend got involved. Just wondering if there is someone out there who uses these Panasonic's on a regular basis? I know they are new, but sometimes there are people who always use the newest stuff. I haven't ever seen the Extreme CCTV stuff, but I hear the products are top of the line, but top of cost also. Have bought a lot of Pelco cameras though, they are right here in California. Never any problems with the Pelco stuff at all.

I know that both Pelco and Panasonic ( just to name two) make color-day and b/w-night cameras. Never have installed them, though. Would one of these options make better sense than going to one of these IR cams? The one new Panasonic I hear a lot about is the WV-484 series. I can't remember the Pelco model. A friend of mine installed three of the Panasonics at a local motel, and told me later that the motel owner loves the camera. How would the Mace "53" model compare to those higher-end models? Would the IR be of any help, when the area is actually being lit, as in a parking lot with sodium vapor lighting?

I see a lot of chat here on this forum about the newest IR cameras. I myself have purchased and installed several of them. Not too happy with the ones I have done install on , though. I guess I have higher expectations that most of the business people who I deal with. All customers have been pretty happy, but they, for the most part, are updating from 10 year old systems (i.e. VCR's , etc.) so they really don't have anything to compare their own situation to. Just would like to ask about the best cameras for the price ranges ; GOOD for anything $100 or under, BETTER for anything $200 or under, and BEST for anything $300 or under? Most the IR cams I have used have been $200 or under ( about 90%). Any recommendations? Most of these will/would be installed on the insides of businesses which will use no, or very little, available light. Many would go on the backside of buildings, where there are a lot of shadows created by the buildings themselves. Most small business owners just don't want to spend over $200 to $300 for a camera, much less a decent DVMR.

Would like to toss this question out to the more learned , networking types in this forum. What is the best way to remotely view a DVR over the internet, without using the manufacturer supplied program? In other words, I cannot always take my laptop (which has remote view program on it) out on the road. I would like to view my DVR using Internet Explorer with high speed internet connection at both ends. Must I upload my DVR images to a FTP site, then view? Or, since my DVR came with program CD, must I only be able to use it, or end up purchasing a video server? Thanks.

Thanks for help. If I knew someone more knowledgeable in networking, I wouldn't be here. Networking solutions are mostly above the average person, just ask around and see for yourself. But I think we all know that. I install and program Allen Bradley PLC's often. I understand how machinery networks. PLC's control pretty much everything in modern factories. But find out how many people can understand, much less program, PLC'c. Even local Kronos "punchclocks" are on the ethernet. In other words, I am not too worried about finding a job when I need to. Back to my DVR. If the people I bought it from were helpful, I wouldn't be here in this forum. If you have suggestions for me, thankyou, if you don't, please just read and move on. Thankyou to all who have tried to help me in this, I have no doubt I will have to figure this networking issue out for myself.

The thing that has always got me with this new DVR is that after I do all the port forwarding of the router , and assign the DVR an address. I can unplug, wait a few minutes, then re-connect the DVR and my router will recognize the DVR and its' IP address. Ping command comes back as "timed out". Just can't connect with provided software. My last DVR with MJPEG, had almost similiar connect software. I still haven't been able to "Telnet" the DVR, or anything for that matter. Never have done that before. I can get into the DOS prompt, get to the Telnet prompt, but never get to finish, or see what the end result is supposed to look like ( when accomplished correctly).

Yep, done all that several times. Since I can't access my old Cobalt Server, which is on the same router, I think my problem is in the router. I saw an update on the Motorola website this morning, so I think I will try to update first ? I have my old server direct connected to my router also. The server has a link light on, and shows valid connection also, but I can't get into it by using the IP address already assigned to it, like I used to. Will keep trying on the DVR though. I know I am just a "click" away. Thanks for the continuous help!!