Fiona

Amen to that.

Thanks for explaining that to me. I read Page 11 very carefully before I posted the question. I saw the diagram but it didn't make any sense and it certainly does not show the back of the KBD960. (The Pelco diagram doesn't match your photo.) And asking how the power enters the controller is a reasonable and valid question. I've never seen a power input enter via a RS 485 port and I can't seen why Pelco would do that. Why couldn't Pelco use a 24 vac input that runs off a standard cctv power box rather than another mickey-mouse tack-on power supply - just something else to breakdown. Sometimes I wonder why surveillance companies make their products so esoteric, then I realise that it is intended to keep John Q. Public out of the loop. So much of all of this could be explained in simple and precise language but, of course, if that happened, the control of sophisticated CCTV would be lost from the elite inner crowd who have all the knowledge.

Anybody got a photo or diagram of the back of the PELCO KBD960 controller. Pelco Manual does not show the inputs. ftp://ws2.pelco.com/ProductManuals/C1519MC.pdf Does the PELCO KBD960 use a 3-axis joystick? The manual seems to indicate that the joystick only performs a two axis control (X-axis, Y-axis) ie. Pan tilt and no zoom capability.

Power input for a US sourced controller. PDF not very clear. Do they take a 110/230 volt plug or 12 volt or what?

The Holy Grail - Cameras Most electronic products today originate in Economic Processing Zones (EPZs) in Asia. These factories produce devices which, though identical, are sold on the market as Brand A, Brand B and so forth. Occasionaly, a genuine brandname product, i.e. manufactured on behalf of the known Brand, will turn up as a 1/3 price generic. Sometimes generics carry evidence of the expensive brandname left in obscure fine print on their products. The point is, if manufacturing is becoming concentrated, and if most of the stuff we buy is simply badged or rebadged (Mona Lisa?) generically-produced technology then hunting down the original manufacturers of high quality merchandise such as cameras, would allow the end-users, consumers, to get the highest resolution, longevity and efficacy per dollar spent. Cameras are not that easy to pin down as DVRs, nevertheless, there would almost certainly exist in both Korea and China large factories producing the lion's share of high quality unbranded cameras. And I would imagine those factories would give end-users a substantial bang for their bucks, so to speak. The problem is tracking down those factories...

The Korean Coal Face: OEM DVR Factory: http://www.ctring.co.kr/profile.html OEM Component Manufacturer: http://www.kdei.co.kr/english/e_about.html OEM Supplier: http://7techcctv.co.kr/portal/products/IPCamera.aspx Life time warranty on products: http://sicam.co.kr/content.php?co_id=aboutus Start-up Factory: http://www.microc.co.kr/main_company.htm Patent Holder: http://www.avico.co.kr/2007/about/about02.htm OEM to 10 Major Companies: http://dals.kr/ Aerial Reconnaissance Cameras for Military Use: http://www.photronic.co.kr/main/company.html Industrial Cameras: http://www.samwoosc.co.kr/about%20us.htm Patented technology: http://shico.co.kr/xe/?mid=companyintro

Rory, I have sent you a private message with the details you requested. The page subjects are listed below. I have removed the web addresses from the public post because I began with a simple discussion about sourcing cameras before it turned into a slanging match. Merry Christmas, Fiona. Here is the home page: Company profile: ISO 9001 14001, FCC and IP66 Certification: And here is the 100+ page catalogue: And here is the support page: Download page: Technical Support page: Diagrams in PDF format: Technical support manuals:

Once again, most consumers talk about warranty in a period of months - 12; 24; 36 - and accept that pathetic, brief, branded liability as a guarantee of longevity. Industrial standards aimed at by companies like Ikegami are measured in decades. And it is not generally known that in Japan, the Corporate giants rely on the supply of what amounts to generic components sourced from thousands of small manufacturers. I use one genuine Sony camera that has been in operation for twelve years despite the abysmal guarantee of only 12 months. The tenacity of the equipment is in-built from the standards of the people who built it - many of whom were mere small manufacturers. And similar tenacious manufacturers do exist in Korea and China: producing the components for Pelco and friends.

I am not going to mention specific Brandnames here, however, if a person had a generic item that was marketed by Brand A and Brand B, then obviously the information for that product would be widely available. When they start out with 'please supply the model number' abrogation route it is pretty obvious who controls the situation. And that is what I have tried to crystalise in your mind. Warranty is overblown - they are words on a page - because reliable manufacturers build to a quality and not to meet the minimum fiduciary standards. Oh gee, I'm going to run out and pay $1000 because of some minimum warranty rather than spending $333 on an identical product which came from the same factory when the factory itself will warranty the item. This thread strated in response to the fact that the camera rubric had the highest number of posts on the Forum. Go back and read the endless complaints people have with brandname products like the one you relentlessly promote: CNB; and wonder why it is that people are looking for a better solution to the camera aspect of CCTV.

I think you are missing the point. I don't want to mention specifics here because I don't want to undermine the sponsors of this Forum. I have equipment with the actual Brandname A (for example) in tiny print, even though the item was sold as a generic. So with that piece of equipment (which cost 1/3 of Brandname A's price) I am pretty darned certain where it came from and where to get answers. Warranty is overblown. Quality companies are backing their products in case they fail. Even direct suppliers offer 2-3 year warranties.

Soundy, I would say that premium generic equipment shouldn’t need support. Besides, if it did, it would be available through the company that rebranded it. Chris, I’m talking about the wee small band of enthusiasts who know about rebranding. I am not broadcasting this knowledge to the wider public. This information ought to be very, very useful to the installers and merchants who support this Forum. Otherwise we are all just at the end of a very long line of importers and on-sellers. I like the idea of going to the source, or at least knowing some details about that source. Sean, I don’t think that generalisation is absolutely true. Certainly I agree that the Samsung, Pelco, Panasonic, Dedicated Micros gear appears on a different playing field. But I am not really focused on Brands who make equipment that is unnecessarily esoteric. What I am talking about is robust equipment that performs to industry standards and is not taxed by the enormous bureaucratic structure of the Corporate world. Sean, I know that it is still possible to source premium CCTV equipment directly from EPZs because I have done it. And besides, surely installers need to get the upper-hand on this supply problem to maximize the viability of their livelihoods.

I had assumed that the connector/plug and socket would have been standardised. (Industry standard.) Also check this out. I've heard of trial and error but CNB lists 79 discontinued cameras. http://www.cnbtec.com/en/html/product/product_list.php?maxx=10 Does this auger well for the future?

Does anyone have any experience with the Mona Lisa 600TVL Ultra High Resolution CNB-CCM-20VF/CCM-21VF with built-in lens (comes in 24 VAC) or the Mona Lisa 600TVL Ultra High Resolution BBM-20F/BBM-21F lens optional (also avail in 24 VAC)? http://www.cnbtec.com/en/html/down/data_down.php On Page 13 of the BBM-20F/BBM-21F User Manual it talks about soldering a lens cable to the auto-iris connector plug ???? Wouldn't it have been simpler if CNB did the soldering? Anyway, I've got a couple of new enclosures just waiting for the box cameras.

Thanks a lot Soundy...

Anyone know a web address to download the Pelco D Protocols please?

Or maybe I should have just asked for the command for a tour group. I thought it was 76 Preset. Come to think of it, is there a command for say, tour group 2, or tour group 3 etc...?

Will the Pelco Spectra IV SD4CBW23 accept the 35x module without modification? (Making it the same as a SD4CBW35) I believe the 23x and 35x are almost identical so I would imagine the board should recognise it.

I once read that speed dome firmware upgrades can be achieved through the RS485 cable. It certainly made me curious...? But beyond that I did not pursue the problem.

I've been using the Dahua DH-DVR1604LE-A for about eight months now. http://www.dahuasecurity.com/product.aspx?p=cpyzc&p_kind=3&c_kind=262&c_kind3= It is pretty much state-of-the-art. Dahua claims to have 50% of the entire Chinese market in DVRs, so that all other Chinese DVR manufacturers (combined) share the other 50%. Dahua claim a 50% sales increase last year alone and has staked its reputation on its DVR platform which is identical across all of its DVRs. This means that they essentially use the same software. The main differences between their models is 4, 8. 16 etc., cameras and the number that can record in full D1 resoultion. The 1604LE-A can record D1 simulanteously on cam 1 and cam 9, the other cameras taking the lower resolution and/or frame rates. I have to say that the recorded image is spectacular. The GUI is controlled through an intuitive mouse and it is dead easy to use. I have the rare and optional remote and have never needed to use it. It has PTZ out on the back to control pan tilt etc., and a plethora of other functions that just go on and on. The unit it cool and very quiet. It draws less than 23 watts of power and is so efficient it doesn't even have a fan. Dahua is going to be a force to be reckoned with in CCTV DVRs in coming years. They have good support on the Dahua website usually through the Dahua Techs like Ivan and Kevin. http://www.dahuasecurity.com/feedback_list.aspx?p=fwyxz&p_kind=4&c_kind=9&c_kind2=192&c_kind3= Having said that, many of the Dahua employees in Binjiang District, Hangzhou are rude and arrogant. Their left hand does not know what their right hand is doing. I enquired recently about the DH-SD60C09 High Speed Dome and was given the run-around for weeks until Rita in sales overseas@dahuatech.com contradicted Kevin (who then contradicted himself) and said that model was out of production. I then pointed out to them it was offered in their current catalogue along with false claims about IP67 weather protection. Needless to say, they were not impressed. Anyway, it seems that Dahua are mostly interested in conquering and monopolizing the DVR market. I guess because the DVR will become the cornerstone of all future CCTV surveillance. (If I have stepped on anyone's toes about the Ebay recommendation, then would someone please remove the detail above.)

A question nobody asked was: Did it drift out of focus when set to Manual Focus. Survtech makes the good point that the module may drift out of focus under difficult lighting conditions but it shouldn't drift out of focus at all if it is set to Manual Focus and the Focus is set. Even when you set it to a Preset, the camera module seems to be influenced by being set to Manual rather than to Auto Focus.

I can't find any studies by Pelco about HEAT affecting their brand of PTZ Domes, however, Pelco are obviously aware of the HEAT problem. Pelco undertook a painstaking study on the affect of HEAT on the Endura Systems: http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/85257689000007EE/all/6002A200897D645E852577CF0008B114/$File/c2670m.pdf I suspect Pelco knows exactly the lifespan and failure rates of their Spectra Domes based on an induction gleaned from thousands of Spectra IIIs & Spectra IVs installed for years in hot (115 Degrees Fahrenheit) climates worldwide.

So just the two RS-485 wires to the RX- & RX+ Inputs on the Backboard. (p.4 on following PDF) Pelco IV Back Box PDF (16 pages): http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/85257689000007EE/all/439C64321C59844E852576AA006A3D12/$File/c3418mb.pdf Thanks a lot to Soundy and hardwired for making it crystal clear.

The Pelco IV info refers to an 'Optional keyboard controller'. Will Pelco IVs (all, some most?) out of the box accept a generic Pelco P or D protocol Controller without an 'Optional keyboard controller'?

And what about the Sony Modules like the FCB-EX480 etc... Can the Spectra IIIs or Spectra IVs accept upgraded modules - like swapping the FCB-EX480 18x for a FCB-EX780 25x or even the FCB-EX1010 36x

Thanks for the TXB Translator Board PDF. It now makes sense. The Board literally translates - as you said - other protocols in a form recognised by the Pelco decoder.