normicgander

Not too sure about MSRP for the avermedia unit- seems dealer cost. At those prices, for the most part they are DIY products anyway........

The NBFAA is just a union mafia trying to kill the small cctv shops via regulations. This is the most rediculus waste of taxpayers money and government resources. Any fool knows that a company installing video surveillance/alarm equipment in sensitive gov areas or facilities will already have/require a bb check or security clearance....end of issue. The states already do this stuff, especially for alarm installs. (now the terrorism card? gag me already) Scorpion where do you find this stuff?

Seems that $2500 is dealer cost in the open here (no big deal- our industry is corned up). I have sold several SA6416 DVRs and overall it's an excellent unit for the cost (the de-interlace filter is a major selling benefit). As a side note, I don't think Avermedia understands the US market (end-user field requirements as with the CMS software, Remote console software connects only to one DVR, confusion in what the units can actually do, tech support issues, sales practices). The fact that your competition is selling Honeywell is useful information, but shouldn't be a big concern. Compare feature sets of the Honeywell compared to the units you wish the offer. Ask your customers what features they actually require and educate your them on what your DVR(s) can provide......as well as your outstanding tech support .

Rory, TeleEye is one of a few which DVR OEMs which spec multichannel processing for recording and IP streaming as you mentioned. Saw them at ISC, but they don't have US office yet....

lol They will foward input to HQ....

I installed one unit. Not bad for the price and the image quality is above average. I agree with Rory's suggestions, but I don't Aver will listen in my experience with them. The unit should also allow for individual channel record rate/quality adjustments....

Has anyone heard or dealt with Instek Digital? http://www.instekdigital.com/ Thanks, normic

Of cousre there is dynamic and static scenes for which the total surveillance/transmission chain or system must handle. Even before A/D process performed in DVRs/IP encoders, one could argue that the odd/even field based NTSC compatible or EIA-170A video compostie signal is flawed for video surveillance applications. Perhaps cost and simplicity were factors. The developers of the NTSC systems never intended or anticipated that someone would want to "Freeze" a frame of video with two temporally different fields, 1/60th of second apart (just hope the subject stands still). Their reason for using odd/even fields was reduce the bandwith of the NTSC RF spectrum (analog compression ). So, with respect to "D1" and most DVRs, this can be a problem with recordings involving targets of interest moving within the capture video. I only mention this because there are issues even before the D/A process. This is why the use of progressive scan imagers for higher quality images are the future IMO (hopefully there will be options to UDP/TCP network transmission). As for testing methods to obtain an objective figure of quality, the method used in broadcast, such as testing cameras also uses static test charts and signals. I'm sure they too are aware that TV content involves movings objects and scene lighting etc. But, you have to start somewhere. I agree MPEG transmission is an issue, but the applied compression will effect the ability to discern detail even in static scenes also. Once the bits are gone due to compression, so goes the image detail. There is the need for an objective measurement stanard for digital systems, to include dynamic and static conditions. That's the reality in the field. Perhaps IEEE will address this issue for the CCTV industry. Good discussion..

I've heard very good things about this company Indigo Vision. From their white paper, this is what I've been whining about: Today in the digital world we have become accustomed to using terms such as 4SIF and mega-pixels to specify resolution as the number of pixels samples used per image. Unfortunately this is both helpful and misleading. The number of pixel samples used only governs the theoretical upper limit of usable resolution. The actual usable resolution of a system cannot be directly inferred from the number of pixels. Usable resolution is important to CCTV operators as it determines the level of fine detail that they will be able to see. A higher usable resolution will enable an operator to: Read a car number plate from a greater distance. Identify a face more clearly. Examine a portion of video in more detail.

http://www.indigovision.com/whitepapers_resolutionandtvl.php This is interesting...

It's not hard at all with the right test equipment. It's standard in the broadcast world. Even VCRs in CCTV had rating of 240 color and 300TVL (not scan lines) B&W. Of course lossy compression is necessary, that's not my point.

Rory, this image was taken from an Avermedia SA6416 DVR, 720x480, highest quality with dynamic deinterlace filter. The vehicle was moving rather fast so image blurr is a factor. The DVR did a good job blending the 2 fields.

H.264 is the ITUs version of MPEG 4 part 10 and is the same. Image/video quality is proportional to the encoding method (4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0 etc. which can reduce bit rate itself because the eye is not as sensitive to loss of color information), the allowable system bandwidth and the level of applied compression for either image (jpeg based) or video (mpeg based) methods. The bottom line IMO, is that DVR OEMS over compress to obtain longer record times because it's good for marketing. Some argue that JPEG2000 and other forms of Wavelet compression methods produce better still snapshots for forensic purposes. For streaming video applications perhaps MPEG is more optimal. Most DVRs use 4:2:2 encoding which is why a 720 x 480 image is reduced in size. So how can it be D1? Then come the decimating compression- that "Excellent/Superior/Good/Normal/Why even bother" settings in the menu. But it's still D1 right? We need a industry standard for DVRs/IP video in TVL.

Those features are standard now. I would keep them. Perhaps the GUI interface/menu needs enhancement. But, I'm sort of confused. What or who is your market? CCTV dealers (direct) or Joe Blow via the internet? This is a free country don't get me wrong. Heck, ISC west demonstated that with all the Asian OEMs, anyone can be an instant e-tailer/manufacturer/distributor. When I visted your site it mentioned something about offering direct to customer product pricing, cutting out the dealers, distributors or resellers or something to that effect. I have no problem with that in our free market, but as a dealer, I didn't give the product another glance. My point, is that DIY folks and dealers are on this forum and not many dealers would sell products, where their customers can buy direct. Therefore the person who made the original post may not get many or any responses. Good luck...

I hear you! To be in this business as a dealer is hard work to balance being both competitive and providing the good quality product. It never ends. I have a few DVR boat anchors in the shop. However, it's typically (one or more) the local GUI/menu, archiving ability, and remote viewing software that falls short. The term D1, because of the different levels of applied compression, is an absolutely meaningless specification. There is no figure or standard measurement of merit (TVL would be better). Does not D1 quality vary from DVR to DVR? With respect to analog input DVRs, D1 implies frame recording. We won't even talk about interlace distortion in dynamic scenes.

If you are wanting dealer/pro feedback it could be unlikely because it appears they sell direct to everyone....

Doesn't Intellicam Digital Security sell to end users to cut out dealers and distributors?

It’s very cold outside, I’m too lazy to go ice fishing and have no installs today. So while getting booth numbers for ISC West and checking out what’s new at various company websites, I found this article to share from the Arecont Vision website: http://www.arecontvision.com/security_electronics_july05.pdf Mr. Brooks does make several good points, but to state that the “PAL DVR imageâ€

Well said Rory. Four key elements which can be applied to most occupations: 1. Education -Involves the development of knowledge. -Academic materials and subject-matter study provides the foundation to develop a more successful employee (technician). -Makes you more competitive, flexible and adaptive to changing situations or problems in the field or place of work. 2. Training -Involves repetitive activities which leads to skilled behavior or practices. -Examples: soldering, the termination of cables, use of test equipment etc. 3. Experience -Developed over a long period of time. -Learn from the older folks . 4. Passion/Attitude/Mission -In order to do anything well, you need to like and believe in what your doing.

securitysys- I hear what your saying. Many businesses will say our quotes are high and they can get it direct on the Internet or Sams Club. Frankly our industry has **d itself out. It's not just the Chinese hardware. Try quoting GE, Sony, Panny, Pelco etc. The major quality OEMs also provide online retailers with distributor (or lower) pricing and allow them to sell direct to the people we (dealers) are trying to sell, service and support. They often sell 5-10% higher than distributor pricing. You may also be surprised that some major distributors have their direct sales pipelines via other company names. They send their catalogs directly to every Tom, Dick and Harry and their cousins too .

Rory, Your scenario is illustrative of the real world and I couldn't agree more with your product list. I have a KT&C bullet camera mounted in the gable of my garage to see who coming to the house (has worked 24/7 for 2 plus years, temps -25 to 105f). Also, don't forget covert applications. Try to conceal a megapixel camera . For battery deployed systems, a typical B&W bullet draws around 100mA or less. Analog cameras/DVRs are cost-effect period and will be around for a long time...

I have started using WLAN radios to connect customer buliding with ethernet for general use and allow remote view of DVRs. Can be fun stuff. I think digital cameras of some sort will be the future. Like the idea of using progressive scan sensors, even at D1 res. It's just too bad all the OEMs used a small data rate platform such as Ethernet. Why not use a channelized RF digital system which could use RG6 CATV coax? You could have extension amps if needed. The rx could decode and record the camera channel signals. The receiver could provide the Ethernet interface like DVRs do now. Power over coax like the sat stuff? May sound crazy.

Has anyone evaluated the new Vitek VT-E series DVRs? Their Saga DVRs aren't too bad. Remote software looks like Digimere. The Sags DVRs appear to be Artnix, but not sure about the VT series. VT-E4 Specifications: Video Standard NTSC & PAL Video Inputs 4 Looping Outputs 4 Monitor Output Composite / S-VHS 704 x 480 / 704 x 576 Main Monitor Output VGA/Composite/S-VHS Spot Output (Analog) 1 Split Screen 1 / 4 Audio 4 In / 1 Out Alarm 4 In / 1 Out (1 Relay) Recording Speed CIF (360 X 240), Half-D1 (720 X 240), D1 (720 X 480) Compression MPEG-4 (Modified) Average File Size CIF: 2~4k / Half D1: 4~6k / D1: 8~12k Internal Storage 2 x HDD (Max) Backup Options External USB Devices (Flash Memory, HDD, CD/DVD+/-R, Etc.) Backup File Format AVI Ethernet RJ45 @ 10/100Mbps Bandwidth Throttling 8 Levels Dynamic IP support Yes PTZ Control RS-485 USB USB 2.0 Pre / Post Event Buffer Up to: 5 Seconds Pre-Event / 5 Minutes Post-Event Motion Area Setup Adjustable 12 x 12 Grid Operation Device Front Panel / IR Remote Control / USB Mouse (Mouse Not Included) IR Remote Control Included Power 100~240VAC, 1.0/1.5A, 60/50Hz Operation Temp. 32º ~ 113º Fahrenheit Humidity 0% ~ 80% Dimensions (W x H x D) 14.2â€

granted metal is a better conductor, provides a better path however since this energy is RF (Radio Frequency) in nature, it can travel over the surface of a substance (aka skin effect) and traditional non-conductors can provide a convenient path in the absence of metal.

Actually not for the time. Obviously the application is overt "Event" type surveillance. But hey they must have been a bunch of CCTV analog cretins, right user1?