Kablooie

I've been reading about the 3xLogic MVR Series DVR and was wondering if anyone here has any experience with &/or opinions of the product. I'm looking at an 8 camera installation (analog) with POS/ATM integration and this system intrigues me. Although it may be a little overboard with all of the features it has (that will never be used) I'm thinking it may be a good solution for this particular environment (small convenience/card/gift store type of place). So, any thoughts, comments or opinons on the 3xLogic MVR Series?

Does anyone know of a method whereby PC activity can be captured and recorded on a DVR via VGA output on the computer? I have a client for whom I maintain their POS system and we've caught recent employee theft at the register. They use different methods, but the most popular is ringing in an inexpensive item ($1) when a more expensive item is purchased ($10) and keeping $9 for themselves. We have a good shot of the POS area on video and have text overlay when the receipt prints (it's amazing how many customers don't want receipts - employees just throw them away). Yesterday he asked if there was a way we could capture the screen and record it on one of the video channels. I think it's a great idea. I thought about getting a tight shot of the computer screen with a camera, but it's too easy to block. I would rather be able to capture the video output from the PC so we can see exactly what's being rung in and play it side-by-side with the video of the POS area. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. We are not opposed to purchasing a new 8ch DVR system whether it be dedicated or PC based.

tomcctv, come on man, that was 9 hours and 10 posts after my first post in this thread. What are you grabbing at? Alot of subject was covered in that timeframe....and then we started on this tangent. It's a good thing in a way as alot of good information has been posted concerning capturing information from the "till", whether it be a glorified calculator or something more robust, like a complete PC based POS system that does more than just ring in sales. There are multiple ways of accomplishing a goal. In cases where a complete PC based POS system is concerned, a searchable DVR database is convenient, but not always necessary. In many cases it can't come close to the data stored in the POS system and certainly can't produce all the detailed reports the PC based POS system can produce. It's all part of establishing an effective loss prevention program. What I do is relatively easy, but it's not how easy it is, it's how effective it is when utilized properly. Might be much different from what you're used to, and that's OK. There's always something new to learn.

Ha ha ah - I'm not talking about an oversized calculator with a cash drawer. kablooie. that is what we are talking about. a standard till. you are giving advice on back office tills. so its like i said it is cheaper to install a text overlay or swap out his dvr card that does pos. to collect the data from the serial port of his till. Umm, maybe the original post needs to be reviewed again? I guess maybe some information from the original post wasn't fully understood. The topic started out with this: I'm sorry, but I don't see the touchscreen on that casio calculator. Touchscreen POS systems are typically Windows or Linux based systems, essentially computers with POS software on them. Casio also makes them:

Ha ha ah - I'm not talking about an oversized calculator with a cash drawer.

Yes, it is actually. The DVR is used as a DVR only. The DVR and POS systems are separate. POS data can be viewed from a remote location, just like the DVR can. However, I have the POS database backed up to a remote computer via an automated process on a daily basis. Transfering the POS database from the remote computer to my computer takes seconds (compressed text, very small files). In fact, I transfer the POS data from 20 different locations to my computer as another backup 3-4 times per week. It took me longer to type this paragraph than it does to transfer the database info. NO. I think there's a misunderstanding. The data from the "till" (POS database actually) is already a text based database. Let me elaborate. 1 - DVR is a DVR. It records video and text (overlay or searchable depending on the DVR). 2 - POS system is a Windows based system running POS software. All data is saved in a database, which is essentially text (the database files can be opened using Notepad or Excel if desired, but won't have the proper formatting). 3 - The POS database can be accessed via the local network or even with a laptop over the Internet. Accessing the POS database is as simple as accessing the DVR remotely. (Off topic: I also have it setup so the POS database is backed up locally as well as to an off-site location at regular intervals in case something happens to the POS system, hard drive crash for instance. This occurs seemlessly in the background). 4 - The owner's laptop, office computer, home computer (even my office & home computers) all have the DVR client software and POS software installed. With a dual monitor setup I can have the POS software running on one and DVR on the other. I can load the POS database within seconds and have everything at my fingertips. I can look at the POS database on the left monitor while running the DVR client on the right monitor. I can set search criteria in the POS software and watch video at the same time. It's very simple, easy to do and makes a searchable DVR database irrelevent. Having a searchable database on the DVR is a nice feature, but not having it doesn't make much difference to me. Overlay is fine. All I need to see is if what the customer walks away with matches what the employee rang up. if it doesn't, there's a problem and I need to see what the employee does with the money. Now, you need to understand that the POS software has more reporting features than the DVR. I can generate reports up the wazoo and display the information any way I want. It goes way beyond searching a DVR database for corrections, voids, no sales, how many cans of coke or chips were sold, etc. As an example, here is how I caught a person stealing $200 in fountain drinks within a week. For this week, the cost of goods sold for fountain syrup was high (something the DVR won't tell you). I ran a report using the POS database showing a food/drink ratio broken down by employee (took around 30 seconds, and again, this is info the DVR database will not show). The ratio for Jane Doe was very low. I ran another report (another 30 seconds) showing all the transactions rung up by Jane. Hardly any drinks were rung up - it's like she forgot the drink button existed. So, now I turn to the video to see what's going on. Sure enough, customers are getting drinks with their food purchase, but she doesn't ring the drinks in. She knows all the prices and knows how much change to give. Each time she does this it's $2 in her pocket. 20 times a day and it's $40. Now, in that example, a searchable DVR database would do me absolutely no good. It can't run the reports which allowed me to zero in on an employee within a minute or two. Let's say I relied solely on the DVR database though, what the heck would I search for? This person was not voiding items, she wasn't ringing them in, charging the customer and pocketing the money. Without seeing the initial food/drink sales ratio per employee I'd be looking at alot of video to find what I was searching for. The searchable DVR database came in handy when I wanted to look at certain transaction numbers, but I could just have easily input the date & time also. It is most definitely and positively is searchable, as explained above. As explained above, the POS database does this and much, much more. It too has every receipt, printed or not printed, with every voided & corrected item. Now, I'm not sure about doing it that way being "cheaper than anything else". With all the potential theft that can be missed by solely relying the DVR database I think it might end up being more expensive than imagined. If there's one thing I've learned it's that theives are very crafty. They teach me new ways to steal all the time. Bottom line - on my computer (in my office) I have 2 monitors connected. The POS database is on the left screen & DVR video on the right screen. I run reports w/ the POS software (reports that can't be run w/ the DVR) that allow me to identify issues very quickly. As I'm looking at data on the left I'm watching video on the right. It's really very simple.

Soundy, it can all be done from the same computer. A dual monitor setup (or a decent sized widescreen, 20" or larger) works perfectly for this. One one screen I'll view all the POS data, on the other I'm logged on to the DVR and viewing video. The searchable DVR database is a nice feature as I can search for a transaction number on a specific date, but I can just as easily go to a specific date & time on the video also. I'm not knocking having a searchable database. As I've said I think it's a useful feature, just not always necessary.

Yes, every week. I have systems with searchable database and others with overlay. Been involved with loss prevention for about 6 years. We can communicate with the POS systems and sales data is transferred to a back office computer. This sales data contains every function that was performed on the POS, including data that is not customer related and might never reach the pole display or receipt printer, like performing reconciliations, inventory adjustments, time clock info, employee productivity, average sale, units sold, types of product sold etc. It can be drilled down to exact individual items being sold. For instance, I caught someone stealing in a restaurant. This person hardly ever rang in drinks. At an average of $1.89 + tax she was stealing $200 a week this way. The DVR database will not show this, but with the POS data you can run a report showing the average check per employee and types of items being sold. Much more powerful. Uh, yeah, that's what I said: 1 - what was rung up, 2 - what the customer walks away with. If you see a $1 item rung up and the customer walks away with a $20 item there's a problem with the employee. Then, 3 - what the employee does with the money. It's really that simple.

that type of pos search is so old . a searchable database is much faster and better. Searching via the POS database or DVR database - what's the difference? You still need to search through data and will see more info via the POS database. The only advantage I see to a searchable DVR database is the ability to click on the text and go straight to the associated video. Nice feature, but in my opinion it's really not much of a big deal. In reality it saves a few seconds. When viewing video for loss prevention there are 3 things that need to be seen: 1 - what was rung up, 2 - what the customer walks away with, 3 - what the employee does with the money.

I have experience with both text overlay and searchable databases. I perform some loss prevention services for some clients and I really don't prefer one over the other, just as long as the text can be exported along with video and viewed during playback - especially when presenting the video on disc to a third party, such as the police. Having a searchable database can be useful, but you need to know what to search for. There can be many false positives when looking through transaction data for theft. People make mistakes and customers can change their minds. Take a fast food restaurant for instance. Example 1: A customer orders a burger and asks for a fountain drink, then changes their mind and asks for a bottle drink instead, then adds a side item - when they see the total they may want to take an item or two off because they don't want to pay the price or just don't have the money. Then they can change their mind completely and order a salad instead. Example 2: A customer keeps asking prices - how much is a roast beef sandwich.....how much with fries....how much with a drink....how much with chips....I have a coupon, how much....etc. etc. etc. The employee will use the POS system to get the totals and all those items are put in, taken out, put in, taken out....wash, rinse, repeat. Example 3: Employee rings in the sale for customer1, but he is not ready to pay, so the transaction isn't finalized. Customer2 walks up and just wants a drink, so customer1's order is removed and a drink rung up. Next transaction shows customer1's order put back in, but the prior transaction looks like theft. I see transactions like those all the time and initially it looks like theft, but video reveals what actually happened. So, if you're searching through a text database on the DVR you can get alot of false positives and may spend alot of time looking at video of legitimate transactions. Also, the text captured by the DVR may not show everything that happened - this all depends on how the text is captured. If capturing text sent to a receipt printer, all transactions will look good in the DVR database. The database on the actual POS System will show all the voided items though, so that's a better place to search transaction text. In my opinion a better way to find theft is to look at the transaction data right from the POS database itself. When you know what to look for you can review an entire day's worth of transactions in 20-30 minutes, then go to the DVR and review transactions that look suspicious. I do this on a dual monitor setup and it works great. I hope I'm making myself clear with this. The bottom line is that a searchable database on the DVR can be useful, but it's only as good as the data it captures....and it may not capture everything. The POS system captures everything. What I want to see when reviewing video is that the final receipt includes everything the customer has purchased. If the receipt shows 1 drink, but the customer walks away with 4 salads, well, that's a problem and it may not be reflected in the DVR database.

I can confirm that this works. I have a client who purchased a couple of the QR414 models as a timelapse VCR replacement and I just logged into them using 519070. At least I had the presence of mind to change the default port numbers when I set these systems up for him. In another thread someone posted that they had an 8 channel Q-See DVR and when he called support they were able to logon without asking for a password. I thought maybe either the admin or user password was not changed. This clearly shows I was wrong. The QR414 sells for $99 w/o cameras or hard drive. You get what you pay for. However I will say that recorded video is pretty decent with the D1/Normal setting. This setting records at 7fps. With a 1TB hard drive w/ 4 cameras I'm seeing it retains from 6-7 weeks of video.

I'm looking for a stand alone (non pc based) DVR that has 2 specific features: 1 - Integrated POS/ATM support 2 - Smartphone support from the DVR manufacturer (iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc.) I have no problem finding DVR's with integrated POS/ATM support and no problem finding DVR's with manufacturer developed smartphone support. I'm having a big problem finding a stand alone DVR that has both features though. Now, I know there are other solutions such as using a POS/ATM text inserter (like the AVE VSI Pro), there are thrid party smartphone applications and there are PC based solutions, but that's not what I'm looking for. Are there any stand alone DVR's on the market that have integrated pos/atm and manufacturer developed smartphone support? I can't seem to find any, except for a couple of no-name systems being sold by a couple of ebay sellers (which I won't go near). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

There are 3 remote viewing passwords that need to be changed: 1 - admin password 2 - user password 3 - mobile password You indicated that you changed the admin password. What about the others? Also, for an additonal layer of security the ports should be changed from defaults. The defaults are 9000 and 80. When you change the http port (80) you'll need to use the port number with the IP address. For instance, if the DVR has an internal IP address of 192.168.1.200 and you change the port to 83 you'll need to use http://192.168.1.200:83 in a web browser to access the DVR, or 192.168.1.200:83 in the remote viewing software. Same thing goes when accessing the DVR with the WAN IP address (just substitue the WAN IP address for the internal IP address in the above example). Along the same lines, if you change the media port from 9000 to 9003 (for instance) you'll need to specify that port also. Oh, the model is QSDR008RTC (removed the extra 0).

Thanks very much for that. I looked at that system a few days ago, but the specs said that an AVerDiGi Data Box is required. Referenced on this page: http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?Id=254&Tab=Specification POS Integration Yes (AVerDiGi Data Box) Also, I couldn't seem to find any user manuals for the unit or CMS software on their website and there are many broken links in their knowledgebase section. However, because you posted the protocol information my interest is renewed. I'll give Avermedia a call on Monday. I'll also contact bpzle to see if maybe I can purchase from him.

This thread is starting to remind me of the Meatloaf song Two Out of Three Ain't Bad: "There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box"

Google the term VC-SYS-8CHWEBR. Seems to be a system by AGI Security. http://www.agisecurity.com/support.html?i=VC-SYS-8CHWEBR&cat=Standalone DVR#

Text overlay is all that's needed. Looking for an 8 camera system. There's one register. There are stand alone units that do more than overlay though, like the Dedicated Micros DS2. The text sent to the receipt printer is stored separate from the video and not overlayed. It's searchable and appears in a separate window during playback. It also has two RS232 ports and can capture text from two sources, but all I need is one. I'm very curious as to why I can't seem to find a stand alone system with both native text overlay and smartphone support. Edit: Concerning type of POS, text wil be captured via RS232 Y cable connected to an Epson TM-T88 receipt printer.

This may be of interest to some: Security & Surveillance Solutions from Windows Embedded http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/about/solutions/surveillance.mspx Security and Surveillance Devices Powered by Windows Embedded http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/about/casestudies/surveillance.mspx Security and Surveillance white paper http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/9/9/E9981113-9EDD-40C0-83AE-7472C416A09E/SS%20White%20Paper.pdf

as long as you arent doing HD video shouldnt be much issue anyway. What would cause the issue though is the OS you use and the type of DVR software, eg new Geovision would destroy that type of pc, the older Geo works fine with it (or adequate). Alot of the stand alone DVRs you mentioned for example are not running Windows so that alone makes a big difference, especially against Win Vista or Win 7. But for example on 1.6 Atoms I used they have issues with HD video on youtube under XP, but I can run 64 little windows of various DVRs and Mjpeg IP cameras with some lag mostly when changing views, but no lockup, in fact I do that on my old Asus EEE PC, but its my custom software developed on that. From what thewireguys has said Exacq is light weight also and thats a full blown NVR. Ofcourse the 1.6 Atom in those ITX cases are a little different from the ones in the netbooks/laptops, different model, probably faster. Speak to thewireguys though as he's made his own before, I believe they have some better boards with faster video chips. That 3x logic is a sweet case though, pity they cant fit in core 2 or least a pentium dual core, dont know how but Apple seems to do it in theirs Anyway no doesnt have to be super fast, even this Dahua slim line Stand alone DVR I have has some delay switching views etc and playback, slower processor than their more expensive larger models, probably to also cut down on the temps, but it records fine and hasnt crashed (yet). There is no substitute for experience. Thank you for providing that excellent bit of information, rory.

Thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated. I was looking at Exacq product also. After I wrote my post about the Atom processor I started thinking that I have clients with DVR's that are up to 5-8 years old and work very well (8 & 4 camera systems, some with POS integration). I can't imagine that those systems have much processing power, but they're also stand alone systems. In any case I'm thinking now that the Atom is more than adequate to perform the job and I shouldn't dwell on it. I will ask about it though.

I actually use an Acer TimelineX as my everyday laptop. Different model, but similar (I have the 3820T-5246). The one I have claims 8 hour battery life. I suppose it could reach 8 hours if the system is turned on and hardly used, but if utilizing wifi and streaming video for a while the charge lasts for around 4-4.5 hours. The best I've done is 5.5 hours with normal usage. Still pretty good.

ok thanks Um yeah soundy dont worry then, If its an Atom 1.6 Im not interested .. thanks though. Oh, it comes with an Atom processor? Hmmm, I may need to rethink how interested I am. However, why would the system be produced with an Atom processor if it weren't up to the task of performing well in a DVR application? I'll need to put this on my list of questions.

Yeah, from what I'm reading the MVR series is similar to the Pro series, but is smaller, so upgradeability may be limited, such as adding additional storage. I'm thinking it also has a less powerful processor. The spec sheet for the pro series states a dual core or quad core processor (depending on model). The spec sheet for the mvr series does not list the type of processor. I also read in the literature that the mvr is limited with how many features can be utilized at one time. This isn't a big deal for the environment it would be used in. Basically record video and capture transaction text. Most other features are way beyond what the location needs. But, the system interests me anyway.

Have you tried contacting Q-See Support? http://q-see.com/support/tech-support.php

Quick, someone invent a little wiper that can be mounted on a dome to clean it at preset times