Toaster

I was actually thinking about something along those exact lines, like with a plug or something... or maybe made to look like a day/night sensor... But figured I'd ask... I figure someone else had to want this before me..

I'm assuming "CNB" is what? chinese name brand??? or is that actually something else...? I'm trying to find out what can I buy in the $50 to $75 price range that's good. I don't want to sepnd $125-$300 per camera... I simply can't afford it, especially this time of year.

Just to clarify, it only wants you to lower security settings to install the activex controls, once they are installed - you can return the settings back to where they were before... Once the activex controls are installed - they will work even after you set the security settings back to high (or whatever the previous status was) As for firefox, yes - yes you need ie tab, and no - ie tab is not infected with malware - its just an extension of internet explorer on a windows machine.. ie tab does not work on mac's - because there is no ie on mac osx. Overall the QC444 dvr is a good dvr in my limited experience. It has lots of great configurable user options, like changing the color scheme based on time of day... Like someone said, all dvr's are going to have pro's and con's - I doubt any 1 dvr is the "ultimate", perfect for everyone, in every way.... but ymmv.

I have not had a chance to hook it up yet, but the Q-see QT428 is in fact a TVT TD-2308SE motherboard inside the q-see QT428 box. there is a spot for a small cooling fan (not installed) and my understanding is it will accept up to a 2tb sata drive. The TVT site doesnt say much, the q-see manual gives a lot more information. Will report back once I've had the chance to hook it up and play around some.

I'll start this with the same topic as the Q-see QC444 thread's disclaimer. I'm not a professional or anything, I'm a simple retail store owner who wanted security camera's on the cheap. I bought a couple of $300 bundles online, and wanted to share my experiences.. This is the kind of stuff I would have liked to read before buying. This is the Clover CDR0440 DVR with 4x OC175 indoor/outdoor 40ft night vision cameras. System comes complete with a 500GB HDD, all needed cables, power supplies, mounts, screws, wires, mouse, remote, manuals... What you'd expect in an all-in-one bundled system. The OSD of the DVR is very simple - and not much to see. Its very simple, and easy to setup, because it just doesn't have many options. It kind of just does what it does. Which is good and bad...read on. Its a h264 dvr... and the HDD is upgradable to 1TB. The included 500gb HDD can record roughly 10 - 14 days of 24hour surveillance - which I think it plenty. The recording options are global for all channels, so whatever you pick happens on all 4 channels. This was verified by clover tech support too. It will record up to D1 at 7FPS across each of the 4 channels. Again, even though the menu claims you can choose separate options for each channel, the fact is what you select for 1 channel affects all 4 channels. It can be remotely viewed by smartphone using html web viewer... NO ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE REQUIRED. " title="Applause" /> The good about this is it works on many types of phone and even desktop web browsers, but there is no security with it - once you have the url - anyone can log in - no password required. On first loading the main http://your.web.address/mview url you'll get a thumbnail view of each channel - then you select what channel you want to view and it will start streaming to you. I do not know what SIZE the streaming image is, but I can tell you its roughly about 4-6 fps from my business DSL line, which is fine. I personally used it with an iPhone 4, and it works great. I DO NOT KNOW WHICH OTHER PHONES ARE SUPPORTED - SORRY. I will say the mview url works on desktop systems with firefox, chrome, internet explorer, mac osx and windows, etc... So I'm guessing its not specific to operating system? You can also view on desktop web browser, after installing some activex control's, so its for internet explorer only. If you're on the local network you can control all the DVR's features from the web applet - which is nice. You can still view, search, backup over the net or network using a desktop windows pc and internet explorer, obviously internet backup is slow, but local network is pretty good. The free windows software (UMS CLIENT?) work's pretty good, because its basic. And you can configure the DVR over the local network using the UMS client software on windows too - which is much easier than using the included mouse or remote control and a tv or monitor. Like other DVR's the remote control is a pain to use, the mouse is easier, but using the PC is the way to go. The UMS software also REMEMBERS the server settings, so once you enter it - it remembers all the ip's, url's, passwords, etc - so you can easily reconnect later sessions. The email notification will NOT allow SSL connections, so you need an SMTP server that does not require SSL connections (NO GMAIL SUPPORT HERE). I'm sure there are plenty of other email servers out there, but I use gmail for just about everything so that was important to me... again, ymmv. Extracting video from this thing is really easy, and the backup video is in .avi format right off the bat. It will backup over the network, usb, etc... VERY EASY. Very intuitive to me. I have used the web client, the windows software and even the DVR itself. You review the footage across all 4 channels at the same time or 1 channel at a time (your choice, very easy) and while watching you simply hit MARK IN and MARK OUT, then hit the backup button, choose which channel or ALL CHANNELS and it makes .avi files - simple. That is maybe the absolute best part of this system, the ease of backup and searching. The camera's are all aluminum indoor outdoor camera's with fixed lens 3.6mm wide angle view. Again, not very wide - but apparently this "wide" is a standard for these cheap systems...? All 4 cameras are "wide" angle. I had read that they are 380TVL with Sony CCD sensors - I'm not 100% sure about that though. The mounts are HUGE and you can not hide the wires, so no matter how and where you plan on mounting these cameras, wire's will be exposed - period. These are 27 IR LED night vision camera's capable of 45 ft night vision, I personally do NOT think they are capable of 45 ft of see in the dark, but its close... They say "TRUE DAY/NIGHT" on the web site, with IR Cut off filter - I don't really know what that means, but I can tell you I do not see much difference in quality between these Clover OC175 380TVL 1/4 CCD sensor cameras and the Q-see 1/4 Sony CCD camera's - which I think are pretty much the same. The clover camera's are larger than the Q-see camera's. And when the IR LEDs are on, the front glows red (same as the q-see's). When these switch to night vision, they "click" and while the images look black and white - I think there is a hint of color (though not much - I'm assuming because of the IR LEDs?) The instructions are not very helpful in setting this thing up, even though its pretty simple... The one thing that is NOT listed in the book (unless I missed it) was after any change - REBOOT THE SYSTEM. After I figured that out, it went pretty fast. Again, you'll need to port forward to remote viewing which I'm assuming is standard across the board on these things no matter what price point you're at. Final thoughts: This is a simple straight forward easy to setup system, that using the search and backup makes sense on. You can easily find a specific time you're searching for and only backup that time sequence. AND ITS EASY. And the file you get back is already in .AVI format. The camera's are adequate, and can record 7fps at D1 resolution with decent results. The included HDD can hold 10+ days of video which is plenty I think, and it can be upgraded to 1TB. Overall it's a decent choice for the price, but there are others with MANY MORE options for the same price and comparable quality. Again, I'm sure this is not what you pro's would like - but it's not meant for you guys... Its for guys like me - looking for basic options on the cheap... There are pro's and con's to anything, so here we go. CONS: Limited recording options. Selections are global for all 4 channels at the same time. No time stamp over video. No MAC OSX support at all, except for simple viewing in web browser using mview PROS: Easy search and backup of recorded video. Backup files are already in .avi right off the bat, and you can easily back up 1 channel or all 4 channels at once. Fairly simple setup (once you realize you have to reboot after any change) Tech support can actually be reached by phone, and are helpful. NOTE: I would very much like to see people comment or ask questions in this thread, although I think I'm probably going to return this setup only because for the same price I can get a dvr bundle with more options and loose nothing.

The only links I find for this show it around $380usd - that's way out of my budget.

Well the QT428 is scheduled to be here tomorrow. I guess I'll report back after I hook it up

Cool.. I'm so glad I found this forum! Is TVT a good brand? I have a stupid question, is it possible to modify, hack or overclock these DVR's? To get higher frame rate, better quality video, resolutions, etc...? Like might it be possible to make these do 30fps at D1 ????

Pretty funny

Yes it has adjustable bit rate for main stream and the extra stream. The extra stream is what you'll see when logging in via mobile phone for live view. You can also set CBR or VBR. When its in VBR you can also adjust "quality" from like 1 to 6 (low to highest or something like that). I have it set to CBR at max bit rate, which is 1024k for D1 at 7FPS and I think it'll do 4096k with D1 at 30fps. The extra stream is set for CIF 7FPS at whatever its highest bit rate is, but I can't remember what that is at the moment.

From what I've read here (and other places) cameras seem to be the weakest link in any of these systems. But the problem is, the internet is flooded with cameras from no-name vendors that have the specs, but not the performance. And it seems like the only way to know is to try and buy, or buy based on recommendations or feedback.... Like I mentioned, on paper - the q-see 1/4 sony ccd's 420tvl seem to be better than the clover 1/4 (?manufacture?) ccd at 380tvl - but I think the quality of video is better on the clover vs the q-see....?

Ok... I would have to agree with you on this... How do I figure out what is best for my needs? The quick run down of this is, I have a store and we had a robbery before the recording cameras (We had 1 camera that was not being recorded, just so we could watch customers while we were in the back - That was a mistake but...). Immediately after the crime - I installed the 4 recording cameras. (too late of course but...) At the store I have them set for D1 7fps. I'm getting roughly 14 days of recording which I think is plenty? At home, I have no clue yet. I bought the system for the store because of the crime, and when I realized I could have 4 recording cameras at home on the cheap, I decided why not.

@rory : PM SENT! Thanks. Here's a couple of things I'm talking about.. I wanted to change the CH1 and CH2 encoding options. The QC444 is at my house, and connected to my hdtv. The remote control is a little bit of a pain to use, the mouse makes it so much easier. I didn't want to go sit on the floor in front of the tv to change the encode settings, so I logged in using PSS - and I can get the playback going, but that's about where I get stuck, and I never could get it to "save" the layout - so each time I load PSS I have to re-login, re-connect to the dvr, re-launch each camera. And I never could figure out how to change any settings on the dvr. I log in using Internet Explorer, and click CONFIG and I'm changing stuff. Much easier (to me). As for the 8ch camera stuff... I ordered the qt428 8ch 500gb hdd with 4 ccd cameras for $300 as a kit... That's why I asked the question, its the same price, but I get 8 more channels... and of course I can always think of where to point 4 more cameras.. Directly at the front door, back door, other side of house, and have 2 cameras sweeping from each direction across the front of the house and the driveway

Oh and I want to thank rory and all the members who are taking the time to read questions and post answers and comments to this thread --- It is REALLY helping me! THANKS! " title="Applause" />

I have the Q-see CCD camera's and they seem ok... on paper they are supposed to be better than the Clover OC175's that came with the Clover setup (which I also have at another location)... The clover cameras are 1/4 CCDs are 380TVL they say "true day/night" and have ir cut filters. The Q-see's are 420TVL, 1/4 Sony CCD, just say "Day/Night" (not "TRUE" DAY/NIGHT and I don't know if thats different?) but I will say that I think the clover camera's produce better quality images... though I need to bring one of those camera's home and check it with the Q-see DVR to make a fair comparison... The one thing I noticed and dont like about the q-see cameras is at my house when the video has shade & bright day light, the shade area is BLACK. Doesn't handle bright spots well... The clover camera's dont do this, but they are in another location (store vs home) so until I mount one in the same spot and compare video from the same time of day, I guess I shouldnt pass judgement. I found a web site that claims it has vandal proof outdoor domes with 1/3 sony ccd, 27 ir led's, 45 ft night vision, at a great price...?

The mac software doesn't "affect" me too much, though I have MAC's and PC's - I'm much more of a windows/pc guy vs a Mac guy.... And while the QC444 does have that PSS software - I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT! I find it MUCH easier to use the ActiveX web controls in Internet Explorer to configuring, backup, etc... PSS just flat out confuses me. I have noticed the QC444 allows for D1 @ 30fps on CH1 ONLY, and CIF @ 30fps or D1 @ 7FPS on ch 2 thru 4. I've got one of these QT428 on its way - I hate knowing I'm loosing features - but I'll gain 4 more channels. I just hope I dont go passed my refund period on these! I sure don't need 3 or 4 CCTV systems.

You wouldn't happen to know if "whatever" it is, is any good or not - would you? Trying to decide if its worth "upgrading" to the qt428 dvr since its 8ch...

@rory or anyone Does anyone know anything about the q-see qt428 8ch dvr? is it made by the same company? (dahua) is it good/bad etc?

Where can someone buy one of these in the usa or online?

I would like to add one thing, I noticed last night on some video I pulled off the clover, it WILL timestamp the video files, but in a sub titles format, so you can turn it off and on using the media player on your pc. And because the timestamp and FPS are sub titles - they are drawn by the media player pc, so they look perfect no matter what size you have the screen at. And I personally think the video quality is a little better on this clover vs the q-see, but the difference is between 8 vs 9, not 5 vs 9 or anything... bottom line: marginal difference in quality... VERY MARGINAL. Please feel free to post any additional information here. THANKS.

Well those screen shots are EXACTLY what this q-see look like.... The web app looks the same, the pss software is the same. COOL! I'd like to get that stripped down version of PSS if you can (want to) share it. Also, as for the Mac stuff - Its running some kind of emulation, because last night when I pulled off some video using the mac I was saving to "dekstop" on my macbook, but it wasn't there - so I searched the pss app folder, and found it buried inside that - like in a virtual windows layout inside the folder.. pretty strange. I'm sure Q-see is getting lots of tech support questions about that (WHERE ARE MY FILES!?) haha.. The HDMI would have been great, since I have mine hooked to my HDTV in the living room at home, I could have used the HDMI cable, but the composite is fine too.. The question about alarm triggers - It says it will do that, but this unit does not have any trigger sensors on the back...? The clover unit I bought has TONS of connections, but the Q-see didn't. ??? As for my cameras.. Yes these are 1/4 CCD 3.6mm and NOT VERY WIDE. your examples given above are excellent - THANK YOU. Where can I get good inexpensive 1/3 CCD 3.6mm wide angle outdoor ir bullet cams? PLEASE ADVISE. Thanks.

Actually we had an attempted break in (or vandalism) at the store soon after installing the cameras. They were recording in D1. I wasn't going to do much, since I couldn't see the license plate because of the headlights, or the persons face because the front door camera is mounted too high to prevent vandals from messing with it. On the advice of my son, I called and reported the incident to the local police, who after hearing me describe the vehicle and the person, started telling ME the color of the persons clothes, vehicle, etc - I said I captured it on camera - he asked if I could burn off a copy - and I did. I explained it wasn't the best quality but he asked if I wouldn't mind. Of course I did. Turn's out, these kids had a history of this vandalism and robbery's in the area, the police forensics said they were able to make out a plate number, and caught the guys! To which they confessed their crime spree... It's a great story --- And my son is who made me even report it in the first place.... so the quality was good enough to see the type of vehicle it was, see identifying marks like damage, etc... and apparently even a plate number. As for tech support and cost... Here's the deal - I'm in retail business and so I can totally appreciate the concept of you get what you pay for. And support in general is important regardless of what you buy or what you pay. However, as a consumer, I can tell you - if the price would have been double - I wouldn't have a camera system, I simply couldn't afford it. The only reason I personally bought these were because of price. Otherwise I would have gone in another direction - A cheaper direction. So not to take anything away from the professional installers or their equipment - WHICH I KNOW IS CONSIDERABLY BETTER THAN THESE CHEAPO BUNDLES! The only reason I wrote this thread was because as more small business owners, simple home owners, and joe public (ie: cheap skates like me) decide they would like low cost video security - information like this would be helpful to someone - maybe...? Would I rather have a professional grade setup with high end cameras, top of the line dvr, professionally installed - of course... But I couldn't afford it, and I knew that. I will for sure check back in at a later time and write more information in this thread about this setup... for sure. And I truly hope others will contribute to this thread with information, details and questions! This is how we ALL learn.

That was pretty much my intended layout, expect where you have camera 4 (green/front door) looking west direction, I planned on mounting that one under my porch area basically at my front door looking north out to the lawn and the car parked on the front curb. The system I bought was a simple q-see system with 45ft night vision 27 ir led camera's, 2 wide angle and 2 narrow angle. I don't know how wide - the wide angle ones are yet - I'm hoping near fish eye. If not, I saw a lense for $28 that gives 110 degree fish eye view by swann, I'm not sure if it will fit these q-see camera's... ? I guess it will all depend on how the views are on these cameras. Here's another question: My house is 2 story in the front (about 20 feet high) and single story in the back (about 9 feet high). So I was planning on under the eave for backyard camera and gate access camera... Is mounting the driveway camera up that high a bad idea? I'm guessing yes. I was planning on mounting on the brick wall about 9 feet up... My limited experience with camera's has been when they are HIGH UP - you don't get any facial clarity - but..... that's why I'm asking the questions

@SEANHAWG I actually tried calling your store today, apparently you're closed on the weekends. I'll try again Monday. These pre-packaged systems (clover/q-see/night owl) are readily available from sams club, compusa, etc... And I'm sure other places online. Here's what I've learned about the 2 in question - That I'm looking at (and currently have). The CLOVER: The DVR has a 500gb HDD. 4CH. Can do Audio if you want. Has connections for alarm and PTZ. Will output video to VGA or BNC composite video (have to buy a BNC > RCA adapter). Can remote view over the internet with WINDOWS (active x via web browser) or iPhone. Has software where you can view/backup through your local network on a windows pc (not mac). The networking is a little complicated, but not impossible. The one thing that's not printed anywhere or explained is after your change any network setting, you have to power cycle the DVR for it to take affect.. After you figure that out, its pretty straight forward. I have to call tech support monday, because I thought I was able to set each channel up separately for resolution, frame rate, etc... seems like now whatever res/fps I choose is set across all channels? Not sure on this one - could be user error. I know for a fact it records D1 (704x480) 7.5fps, H/D1 (704x240) 15fps, CIF (320x240) 30fps. Has email alerts (though I have yet to get that working- I think its GMAIL's fault though), recording methods are motion detection, continuous, scheduled, etc... Does have automatic time retrieval via the internet (I thought that was a nice touch). Comes with a mouse and remote control. Runs quiet. I have no idea how LONG it will record, but its been up for 3-4 days on 2 channels and only used about 75gb on D1... Which seems like PLENTY of space - I'm assuming (GUESSING) 14 days min recording, which imo is plenty for my application anyway. The OSD of the DVR shows time, but the video is not date/time stamped. Neither is it while remote viewing, or backed up. The software interface is not pretty... very basic, very blah - "DOS" LIKE (if you remember those days). No icons, or anything... just simple lines, characters.. .no graphics to speak of. This might be a blessing in disguise ? I don't know yet. Very 8-bit computer (GOD, did I just give away my age?) CLOVER CAMERAS: Came with 4 CCD 24 IR-LED 45ft night vision cameras with 3.6mm optics (?) Very narrow field of view, all are bullet style cameras with sun visor hoods (adjustable). All 4 cameras are the same. With mounting brackets and hardware. and each camera comes with 60 ft of cable for video/power. Oh and I think the cameras are 1/4 sensor ? (I read somewhere sony, but can't find it again anywhere) Q-SEE: The DVR has updated graphics for sure.. The pdf manual online shows LOTS OF CONFUSING SETTINGS. Seems like it has at least 3 recording modes, (1) D1 ALL CH 7.5FPS --- (2) D1 CH1 30FPS, CIF CH2-4 30FPS --- (3) CIF ALL 4CH 30FPS. Again, 500GB HDD, don't know much more about this one, since I don't currently have this one. CAMERAS: Again, CCD, 24 IR-LED 40ft night vision, 1/4 SONY CCD (claims the web site), comes with two 3.6mm 30degree field of view cameras, and two 6mm 55degree field of view cameras. Bullet style with mounting brackets, hardware, cables, etc... (NOT IN THE RUNNING) Night Owl, which from what I have seen online - seems to be made by the same manufacture as the Q-see stuff, as the menu's look exactly the same - but all the bundles I've found for Nightowl come with CMOS cameras with 11 IR-LED's 30ft night and I'm told CMOS is no where near as good as CCD (?). I hope this sheds some light on these pre-packaged sub $400 systems.

I'm sure this is subjective, like everything in life... I'd like to have the top of the line, cream of the crop -but I can't afford it. These systems are around $340 after tax and everything... That includes 4 cameras, dvr w/HDD and cables. Hard to beat that. Remote view from PC or smartphone. Fairly simple to setup... Just not what I was expecting, but I'm learning fast. I want another system for my house now, that's what sparked this thread. Before I re-bought the same one, I wanted to know if the Q-see might be better. Now, I realize they are both "low quality", so at this point its going to be personal preference I guess... My guess is most users here don't use this type equipment, so I'm not going to get the opinions I wanted and was hoping for. I'm still looking forward to anyone contributing to this thread, or maybe pointing me towards a more consumer based forum where its users may have used either the Q-see or Clover (or other comparably priced security camera systems) - Maybe I might learn something else... THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!!