Numb-nuts

Hello Welcome

Sorry about the thread title, you probably guessed I used to write on my college newspaper yeasrs ago. During a recent discussion with other members here one member suggested trees being cut down around the property. After a bit of thought, I decided to do a bit of tree pruning. I spent most oftoday pruning the lower branches of the Silver Birch trees around my house. Before I knew it I had lopped off the branches upto a heignt of about 4 meters. These trees are very tall about 8 meters I would say. The only ones that aren't happy about my pruning are the tree faeries and the drunks that frequent the alley and cause a nuisance, Everytime I see them there I call police so they may soon decide "it's too much hassle to go in THAT alley, so I'll go somewhere else" The fact that pruning branches has given me a much better view to zoom in on troublemakers, has pleased me enormously as it has made my CCTV that much more effective as a tool. The other thing is that the PTZ dome is far more visible from the alley too so I am hoping that will have some deterrent efffect. I cannot place signage in a public alley so making the dome more visible is a good option. I bought a telescopic tree pruner for £8.00 in Home Bargains store. It works great. One other thing I have done in tha past is I ordered a substance called Skunk Shot from the USA. It is an Australian product. It is a foul smelling gel that is a synthetic skunk spray. I usually applied it to the wall the crims sit on and the the base of the trees in the area they like to frequent. It does work for a day or two but being in the open air, it does tend to dissipate quicker than it might indoors. I got the idea to do this afte reading an article that the Israeli army used this as a non-lethal way of dispersing crowds. They spray protestors or rioters with a foul smelling liquid that is designed to penetrate skin and last for about eight days. Nobody gets shot, miamed or injured, but offenders have to suffer the indignity of being repellent to all their family and friends for about a week or more after the event. Next time they think twice about risking it. US police also use the Skunkshot to repel vagrants and drug users from derelict buildings. Here is one such article

Yes these are things to consider too when siting a camera, the future growth of vegetation. I am sure you weren't the first nor the last to fail to predict the future growth of trees. In my rear garden I have a huge tree and want to watch my shed but at night the IR reflects off the tree and the poor old shed is plunged even further into a black hole where the camera can see nothing. Also when the wind blows, I have to sometimes turn down the sensitivity of the motion sensor or I get hours of tree swaying footage and using up valuable disk space.

It's a good point, if you know where you want to site the cameras, get your contractors to add in a couple of cat5 cables for you. Wireless is convenient but there's no real substitute for a line connection.

Don't waste your time with Foscam unless you use it as a webcam and indoors at short range, and don't waste your time trying to use an indoor camera in an outdoor housing it wasn't designed for. Do yourself a favour and buy a purpose made IP dome camera. Many IP cameras come in dome form and will give you excellent performance with years of outdoor service completely untouched. Obviously the occasional clean but thats it. Even in sheltered locations, cameras can suffer from moisture infiltrating and this can ruin a perfectly good camera. Of course expect to pay considerably more for a camera to do the job you are asking of it, a job even outdoor Foscams would struggle with. ( Foscams are built to satisfy a price nothing else). You can expect to pay a lot more but you will save yourself a lot of disappointment, and extra work fiddling and repairing. I haven't a clue which computer platform you have but it's probably Windows or Mac so the software( Vitamin D) I recommend for two cameras is likewise available for Win & Mac and is very simple to set up and use. On this page, click this link yu can see what cameras are available to work with it. Vist the websites of the manufactureres and see whats available that is right for you. For example, I visited the Acti website and see that under fixed dome cameras there are several models which are outdoor rated. I am not sure how to specify IP cameras as my knowledge doesn't extend that far but decide what it needs to acheive, at what distance and ask the question on here and someone will advise which specs to look for. With a fixed dome, you might have difficulty finding a wireless one. good luck.

Do you mean snapshots or do you mean frame grabs? My own system is a bit unspecific about this . On my DVR snapshot means a recording overriding all settings, at a regular interval for a predetermined period. say ten minutes every hour. Whereas, if I export onto CD and use the external player, the viewer can take snapshots (frame grabs) from footage and create a still image from it. Snapshot doesn't mean the DVR takes a series of still images although thats essentially what a recording is. i.e. a 25fps recording is 25 still images strung together or the way I explain it to customers is up to 25 still images per second that can be extracted or played together. Yeah I know it's confusing. It confused me for ages until I realized the manufacturer was being a bit sloppy with the terminology.

The IP rated outdoor cameras will protect against weather but also against the moisture that you d0n't see. Just being sheltered is not enough to protect against moisture or morning dew. Moisture can destroy your electronics, and even before that you may see nothing when your camera fogs up with condensation. Either get an outdoor housing or get another more suitable camera. I haven't installed Vivotec so I presume they don't do an outdoor equivalent? Many makers do an optional outdoor housing, always supposing the camera is up to the job. Usually the traditional analogue CCTV manufacturers offer this sort of option. Netter to get a purpose made camera in an outdoor housing. It's a reasonable thing to say use outdoor cameras for outdoors and indoor cameras for indoors. Get a camera designed for the job and you won't be regretting it later. Outdoor cameras can be useful indoors as they protect against dust awell as water, but generally get something designed for the job.

I presume your friend doesn't have a security guard to monitor the camera full time therefore you would need a camera that can pan tilt and zoom, (PTZ) camera, supported by PIR security lights etc. In order to zoom in on intruders, you need to be able to set presets and alarms that will go to a preset which is zoomed in on a particular location when the alarm is triggered. This could be motion sensitive or the very useful beam breakers or PIR motion sensors. When the beam is triggered it goes to a preset which remembers the zoom and horizontal / vertical position of the camera. When the alarm period is over the camera would resume it's monitoring position i.e. another wider angle preset. For this distance, to get close up enough to identify individuals by face you will need a 22 or 27 or even 36 times optical zoom supported by a digital zoom also. Don't forget, Individuals can cover their faces so remember that in your planning. Over that distance also, you could run either a couple of Cat5 Cables for an Analogue camera or an IP camera which works with your network and there are several that come with excellent support software. A single PTZ camera with supporting PIR lights would work probably. I would also get plenty of signage outside the fence and have Beware of The Security dog warning signs also. Anti-climb paint on the fences might help. To be honest, you may well find just one camera works for you as PTZ cams have mostly a full 360 degree pan. Remember though that you can't see past the mounting post. Another thing, if the mounting post isn't rock solid, look for a auto picture stabilization feature on your camera. I would add another Hard drive to your PC record to also if you can budget for it. You won't need a DVR if you get a decent quality IP PTZ dome like Lilin or Axis or Everfocus or I have seen some fabulous CNB IP domes on their website. I am told they are very good for the price. Finally why not fill in your location so members can recommend dealers to you. You may even make some local contacts. If you are in the UK I am in Manchester if you are near me I can take you to a site with a similar situation to the one you describe. Within a month of installation their problem was gone, and they were left thinking they might not have needed CCTV. That always happens after a very effective system goes in place in a residential premises. Point is take it away again and the problems start to occur again after a while.

Where are you based? this is a global forum, members in China,UK, USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Emirates, Israel and lots more. I wish everyone would fill in their location, it's not that difficult and would save a LOT of time. Tis is aimed at everyone not just you so don't take it personally, you are welcome here I've lost count of the times I heard the question "Where are you" being asked on this forum, so come on guys fill in your location.

The government wears shoelaces?

This thread is in danger of going off at a tangent Rory, that's a whole other debate isn't it. Fact is that guns are difficult to get hold of here and thank goodness for it. I used to have a FireArms Certificate and had hand guns before they were outlawed and we had to surrender them to police to be destroyed. I didn't like it but I didn't complain either as it was for the benefit of the wider community. Only serious crims use guns here thank heavens. Anyway I am in favor of CCTV in all places except restrooms.

and the police, don't forget the police get rid of them, let the bullies rule.......

Here in the UK we have GATSO speed cameras. They work on the same principal except they work from lines painted on the road. You immediately know if you've been caught as the camera flashes twice. The cameras work by being visible and acting as a deterrent. Even I speed at times but I try to be aware of my speed, the cameras being very overt are a reminder Problem is, of course that criminals clone plates and some people get fines for nothing and the responsibility to prove innocence is the motorist. In these cases you are guilty until proven innocent. That is my only gripe with cameras. They are planning to improve these cameras to detect and fine tailgaters too, that I would appreciate. View frim rear of a GATSO speed camera

It has been my experience that CCTV has set me free. Free from harassment, free from petty crime, free from teens that feel they can bully any resident and take ownership of the neighborhood, free from worry, my infallible friend, the expert witness, the witness with a perfect memory and my protector and my companion that saves the police a helluva lot of hassle. Believe me the police have noticed a sharp drop in the number of calls to this street since installing my PTZ camera. Now if I need to call police or a neighbour calls police (which isn't that often) they respond in record time as they know there is a good chance of catching the offenders and a good chance of an arrest where appropriate. It's okay to have the upper hand, but I am also conscience, but it's a mistake to crow about it in public as criminals will see that as a challenge to their street cred. I don't threaten anyone with CCTV, I merely hand over footahe to police and loow tem to do their job, they are appreciative as the last thing they want is to arrest normally law-abiding citizens. There's many a person out there that uses weed and doesn't see themselves as a criminal, but that's just what they are. Nobody is seeking to report these people to police unless their actions start to affect the peace in their community by bringing undesirables to the area. I do not decide who is an undesirable by a person's race religion etc but by their effect on the wider community. Anyway I don't need to decide that's the job of law enforcement and I allow them to get on with it, assisting when I can. The gangs think they have it made but I say to them I have a bigger gang than you do their color is Blue. (depending where you live) I think policing is not just the responsibility of the police that serve the community. If you see CCTV as an infringement of civil liberty then why aren't you complaining that there is a police force in every civilized community in the world? Because police are there to protect us and protect our free society. You wouldn't object to policing and laws protecting us would you? CCTV is just a tool that assists police in their very difficult task. Police spend far too much time dealing with petty crime, if they are aided by a tool that helps them do their job who has the right to object? Anyway I respect everyone who has an opinion to express even when they don't see things the same way I do. My experience is that of a lot of folks and if you have never been harassed by gangs of teens out of their heads on booze and damaging everything in sight, then you can't imagine what a relief it is to change things and I always feel happier where there is CCTV. My only problem with CCTV anywhere is that I tend to inspect it and it must look suspicious to the operators and if I am in a bank you can see the tellers starting to sweat Anyway I love CCTV more than most of my friends.

Red light cameras can help to prevent quite nasty accidents so long as people are very aware they are there. but I agree with you that law abiding people have nothing to fear from CCTV it can only improve their safety. In some jurisdictions, they can be misused by government to track the movements of individuals unfairly, but in the free world, the USA and the UK have legislation to protect us against that. There is also the right to film or photograph in public to consider, you can't legislate for one type of camera and not another because it would be unenforceable or at least riddled with difficulties. There is no point. Local Police fully support my using a PTZ camera to film individuals that loiter in the area and that regularly behave in an anti-social manner in public. One neighbour has been placed on a reduced tenancy because the video I supplied my landlords and police has shown a pattern in the troublemakers being associated with particular households in this street. I have no sympathy on those who object to CCTV in public places. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are genuinely worried for the right reasons but governments make legislation to protect against misuse of such systems and generally CCTV is there to protect the innocent and the vulnerable. I had a cursory read of that book, you are right I think it would be worth a read. I may buy a copy to understand the other side of this interesting debate. Yes CCTV does enpower the operators ( I feel mine has changed the dynamics of the game), but most have CCTV to protect their interests and those of their customers and that extends to police and government protecting us in fact more so official departments. Good thread.... PS I live in a reasonably good neighborhood, I am damned if I will allow it to gain a bad reputation. Once that gets established it attracts the wrong sorts and puts the right type of neighbors off, coming to the area. THATS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN HERE! I WON'T ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN.

I have been looking at DVR cards, but I cannot see how the alarm inputs are connected and the specs rarely mention alarm inputs / outputs. Would I be right in assuming that most DVR cards don't support alarm inputs? If they do, where are these connected usually and how does one connect a PTZ controller as they don't seem to have RS485 terminals either. I know they support RS485 through their software but I prefer adding a hardware controller. I have heard people talking about RS485 to RS-232 coversion cards but don't understand about these do they just plug in and thats it or do they require drivers. I have heard a few posts where these tend not to work too well? I would be grateful if someone could describe how DVR cards are connected, obviously I have seen them with BNC and audio inputs outputs either on the card or on plug in leads, but that seems to be it. no other connections. Anticipating your advice and comments, thanks.

I am not expecting this thread to go very far or stimulate conversation but I wanted to tell UK members both professional and DIYers about my most recent acquisition. You know when you are connecting wires into screw terminals blocks and to DC plugs , screw down baluns etc, it's really irritating that some are slot scews and some are phillips screws. My new little screwdriver has both two sizes of slot blade and a 0 Phillips and 1 Phillips too, and it fits in my top pocket (if I had one) not so unusual I hear you say and you'd be right but Only cost me £1 in Maplins BARGAIN Don't worry they are not all pink, mine is yellow. I am so pleased with this little tool, can't wait til I have a chance to use it.

I've obviously been looking in the wrong places. I will make some more enquiries about these add on cards.

Norm you won't be the first nor will you be the last to wish you'd bought more capacity to add cameras. You will find a willing market for your used DVR on ebay or Gumtree etc.

Sorry I can't help with these as I have tried neither, but the spec looks very good. Obviously you have given this a lot of thought. Until you used the brand you have no idea what customer support is like, but I often find the supplier offers better support than the manufacturer. I usually fit what has been supplied and so when something does go wrong, my first port of call is now always the retail supplier. They often know more than the manufacturer themselves, but not always. It drives me mad when I phone for support and you can tell that the person on the phone is bored I like enthusiastic support from people that really don't treat you like an idiot. Whatever you finally choose, my fingers are crossed for you. PS Don't cut down any more trees will ya?

Yeah Me too, don't forget the razor wire and and cluster bomb tripwires. " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" /> Cutting down all the trees was a bit extreme wasn't it? I thought I was over the top having a PTZ camera at home. Just depends on the problem you are trying to protect against. One thing I truly agree with you on is that OVERT is good let the SOBs see your cameras and likely it will put off all but the most determined intruders THEN JUST SHOOT THE B*RST*RDS. PS I have a mix of overt and covert cameras in case they do decide to try and get in.

I originally bough a Xvision speed dome to teach myself about speed dome use. I have since fitted q good few but I don;t get to sit using them as once installed only a very basic setup is required. As some of you may know the Xvision was not to my satisfaction and after 5 replacements I got a refund. Well I still want to learn more about Speed dome use. I looked at all sorts. I wanted a strong metal housing so the Lilin was out, and the Sanyo was a very poor warranty and Sanyo Technical support was virtually nil. They even couldn't be bothered to answer my two pre-sales questions. Eventually I settled for the Cop Symphony 15-CD55WDN-36, It arrived today and after initial setup I started feeling sick like I did when I was about to test all those Xvision cameras which all failed. Fortunately, it worked perfectly first time. I preferred a smoked dome so ordered and installed the smoke dome and it comes with a Cast Aluminium sunshade included. I was pleased that a dome retention wire was installed. The housing looks the same as the Xvision but that is where the similarity ends. The Cop dome comes with a hinged back-box. The connector lead for the alarms in and out, leaves the dome trough the wall bracket and connects in the back-box which is equipped with two substantial gland fixings. The wall bracket then fixes to the back box with four M6 lock-nuts. I would have preferred bolts here as I like to secure things from unauthorized fingers, but I may buy some tamper-resistant Kinmar security nuts which cannot be removed without the special socket. Did you notice I said Tamper -resistant and not Tamper-proof. The day I say tamper proof someone will get past them. Unfortunately, this back box means I have to redrill the mounting holes, but hey I'm a big boy now! I will also have to re-model my protection cage as the dome stands about 3 inches further off the wall than the Xvision, thanks to theback-box. Oh well I knew it would mean some extra work. Opening the housing, the setting dip switches are acessible without removing anything more. It may be time to get your reading glasses out if you are like me short sighted. You need a reasonably long slot end screwdriver. Setting the protocol and baud rate and camera address was simplicity itself, as the protocol settings combine with the various baud rates so you simply set the switches according to your preference and close the housing with the dome. Job done. Again I notice that the manufacturer has used chord end ferrules for connecting many of the wires from the dome, (see picture below). I have very recently tried soldering on DC connectors so that I can get a good slim neat connection. Unfortunately, I have found that the solder joints can dry out or degrade quickly, so I started using ferrule ends and connector block. The Cop Dome uses this method for both AC power and RS485 connection. I feel safe with this and know that many of you do this too. Now I know why, I will do it too. It appears to be better, faster and cheaper too. After I have fitted this camera, I intend to do a second part to the review. I already have a controller keyboard so I didn't buy one of the the Cop keyboards, I am sure they are reliable, but so is the I have and it has a smaller footprint which is why I choose it as i have limited desk space. Perhaps if they like what I say this tim, they will loan me one of their keyboards to review? I will continue the review after I have fitted this dome.

a very interesting thread