Nimrod

CNB DBM-24VF 1/3" 600TVL, Indoor, true day/night, DC Iris M13 2.8-10.5mm .005 lux CNB DBM-24VD 1/3" 600TVL, Indoor, fixed IR cut filter, DC Iris M13 2.8-10.5mm .05 lux CNB DFL-20S 1/3" 600TVL, Indoor, fixed IR cut filter, M12 3.8mm Fixed .05 lux CNB VCM-24VF 1/3" 600TVL, Outdoor Vandal true day/night, DC Iris M13 2.8-10.5mm, .005 lux CNB VCM-24VD 1/3" 600TVL, Outdoor Vandal fixed IR cut filter, DC Iris M13 2.8-10.5mm, .05 lux CNB VFL-20S 1/3" 600TVL, Outdoor Vandal fixed IR cut filter, M12 3.8mm, Fixed .05 lux

There is one top secret, low cost, IP megapixel camera that might have a prayer. Arecont Vision AV1310DN 1.3MP, with 1/2 inch cmos sensor. True day night. Color: 0.1 Lux @ F1.4 B&W lux spec not given. There is a guy on here that sells them at the lowest cost i have seen, his nick is voipmodo, and he has a nice web site. Usually this camera is sold without a lens so do not forget to add that in.

“Any ideas on my limited set of brands? and around/under 500 each?” This is why i almost never recommend IP megapixel cameras. They have poor low light performance. Only very good (more expensive) megapixel cameras should be considered, and compared to analog camera’s sensitivity they come in a very poor second place. From your first post it sounds like your friend has more money than brains anyway. Changing out his old cameras because your megapixel looks better is not much of a reason to change. Tell him to make a list of exactly what it is he is not seeing now that he wants to see. Maybe he just needs to augment his current setup with a few more analog cameras, move the current ones around, or just change the field of view on current cameras. Another option is use a good megapixel camera or 2 in the more well lighted areas and fill in the darker areas with analog cameras.

Look at this thread about samsung. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25104

“I wish to spend about 120 for each camera” I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

“I have a new client that insists on using the EL-470 from icrealtime and base on what I've used recently and read from this forum, I've been recommending the VCM-24VF from CNB. Could someone help me decide which one is a better camera. I'm intalling 4 cameras indoor and 4 cameras outdoor at a house. Thank you” Tell him you have not tested this camera before and you can not guarantee it for suitability of purpose. You will use it if he wants to, but no refund.

“So here's what the pictures look like, as much as I can tell from how small they are: they look like an image that's too dark - either because of a poor lens choice, or an imager with poor sensitivity - being electronically boosted to provide a brighter picture, with inherent electrical noise being boosted along with the image. Exactly as one would expect with cheap cameras.” After reading this i looked at pictures again and i am sure you are right. Look at the shadows on the pavement in front of the car. In the clear picture the sun is more overhead giving lots of light. In the grainy picture the sun is starting to go down but there should be plenty of light there for a good camera.

Here are a few links that give you an idea. http://pc-level.com/2011/04/how-to-repair-laptop-power-cord/ Look at last 2 or 3 pages of this pdf. http://people.virginia.edu/~dtl8q/images/repair_dc_jack_vpr_matrix_laptop.pdf

Has anyone done a direct comparison of the quality of video for cat5 with baluns verses RG59 at various lengths. I am mostly concerned with runs from 50 to 300 feet.

Well first of all i do not think you have enough wireless bandwidth for 4 cams. Second, forskin cameras are bottom of the barrel. I played with one a year ago and it frequently dropped the wireless connection and i had to go to the camera and cycle power to get the connection back. They have fairly poor light sensitivity. Realistically they are child’s toys. But if you can use it wired, and you have enough light you might get buy.

From what i understand in Canada you pay a premium for cameras so i am not sure you can buy any of those cameras for your budget price. I tried looking all these cameras up. CNB: VCM-24VFH with heater, good choice but it has been confirmed many times the heater is not needed. VITEK: VTD-MVP2810DN, i have never seen this camera recommended. CCTVSTAR: SVD-620SI2812D2 with *heater option, i never saw any recommendation for this camera either, Also it has built in ir leds and that is always a nono. KT&C: KPC-VDE200 with *heater option*, i never saw any recommendation for this camera either,and i can not even find it for sale in the USA. EDIT: check out this thread. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25572

KT&C has board cameras with true day night ir cut filters but i think they are all varafocal. http://www.ktnc.co.kr/english/viewforum.php?f=88

“I use exclusively UTP/power siamese cable, and I have about 250,000 feet of it in the building. ~800 cameras, all analog. Longest runs are in the range of 1,800 to 2,000 feet.” WOW, that is an incredible system. Can you tell me more about the utp you use. Is it cat5e with 16-2 power or what configuration is it and were do you buy it. And while we are at it, how in the world do you manage 800 cameras.

“Actually the cameras ARE digital, it's the transmission that is not. For example most 480-650TVL cameras have 768x494 total effective pixels NTSC. This is before it leaves the camera.” Thank you for completely missing the point of the thread. We are talking about what resolution an analog camera is and what is sent to the dvr. Resolution for analog cameras is defined as a number of lines you can count displayed on a CRT. And no it is not floating pixels through the analog stream. The bandwidth of the analog signal is what actually determines what the number of lines is.

“Did I say Analog has pixels ? I am saying your final recording is DIGITAL means pixels” The analog signal from the camera connects to the dvr. This analog signal goes into an analog to digital converter and that gives you binary data that corresponds to the analog signal. This binary data is then processed by the computer and is made in to jpegs, mpegs, etc or some proprietary format. At no time is the data stored in pixels. And thank you for the nice picture, i can not tell you how much fun i am having with it.

“Your Analog cam is being connected to DVR DVR will capture in pixels only” I am just about ready to go thru the roof. Listen up, analog does NOT have pixels, pixels are DIGITAL, the signal from the camera to the DVR is ANALOG.

“Your math is wrong ! u have to take 640 over ~ 12 feet = 53 ppf u mix in up pixel and tvl very common mistake” No my math is not wrong. I am talking about a 5ft FOV and i used 480 tvl because of the current dvr thread were the consensus is that no dvr can record over 480 tvl. So 480tvl / 5ft = 96 pix/ft. You only use pixels for digital cameras, for analog cameras you use tvl.

“Sounds like a job for a bunch of DFL-20's cheap 0.03 lux color mini dome cameras ... throw up a bunch of cheap KT&C 0.05lux Standard BW bullets on the outside .. a 32 channel dahua .. and good to go” You are absolutely right, but remember this was back 8 years ago or so. The athlon 2200 cpu was the rage and 300 gig hard drivers were big. Back then that Ganz was a pretty good camera probably around $350

“At what resolution u capture your video cif ? D1 ?” It was a cheap DVR card and program that only said 640x480

“The IQ511 is rated for 0.2 lux, 1.3MP (1280x1024) and will fit in a smaller DF5 dome housing (I know, because I've installed many of them in DF5s).” To bad i do not have that building anymore, i just happen to have 2 IQ511 sitting here, hmm with wrong lens $%^&. But i could of used them for a lux check, as i said before the Ganz cameras were rated at .3 lux and they were just sensitive enough to work if subject was under or very close to one of the double 40 watt florescent fixtures. So hard for me to say a .2 lux would work ok. Thats why i specified a .1 lux.

“It doesn't have to be THAT camera, that was just a generic suggestion (I was searching for a picture of a megapixel box cam). Use whatever model suits the job. The point was, you're limited to lens sizes that will fit when using a standard "dome camera", so... think outside the box (pun intended) and put a box cam and lens inside a dome housing.” OK i see what you are saying now, i am sure there are box cameras that meet the lux spec and you found a lens and housing, congratulations you are the cctv forum hero!

“You don't need facial recognition the entire length of the hall... It's a hall. It has 2 walls and 1 exit at each end... They aren't going to be Shadowcat from Xmen and walk through the walls. They'll pass it on the way in and on the way out.” I am not really blaming you for not knowing this and you are not a loud mouth claiming you know everything with no proof. In this case i have the advantage of owning an apartment building and i know what goes on. but as it is, you are wrong on both counts. First if you calculate the pixels per foot on the ends of the hall that is worst case, the closer you are to a camera the better it gets. Second in effect there are people walking through walls. It has happened to me several times. What happens is if you have a young beautiful girl on the first floor she is chased by many young stupid men. And what they do is bang on her window, if she does not answer and her window is up they cut the screen and climb in her apartment. The first the first few times when i saw faces that just appeared out of nowhere peaking out of her door i thought my motion detection was not working as i had no record of them entering. But when i finally found the cut screen and asked my tenant about it she confirmed her boy friends just climb in the window if she is not home. Second there are just plain breakins, after the boy friends episode i knew my system was working and when a mysterious face was peaking out of a empty apartment i quickly collected the video footage and called the police. The police easily identified him and i got a conviction. But then again i used the proper camera for the proper job so having good video was not a surprise.

“Appropriate megapixel lens (this one is rated 8-80mm for 1/2" at 3MP, manual/auto iris and standard or day/night variations available):” Good job soundy, i could not find a camera with the proper lens. However with no model number i could not find a lux spec and also we need this lens on a 1280x1024 or 1280x720 camera for a proper fit to the job without making the customer overpay.

Sorry I am not about to give out free design info like this on the internet but I can tell you it can be done. Right now I am looking at a demo system that I just installed for a hotel. 5MP camera 100ft hall way works very very well. Everything comes down to proper design using the right equipment for the right location. Your funny, The fact is you are not using the proper camera or the right design for the job. Because you can not buy it!!! The only reason you are getting away with using a camera with such a poorly matched lens for the job, is because you are over compensating with a whopping 5mp camera, all for a tiny 5 foot wide hallway. Do you have any idea how silly this is. And what about the poor schmuck who has to pay 4X the cost for your mismatched design.

I decided to get scientific on megapixel cameras to see if they would work for this application, of placing 2 megapixel cameras in hall facing each other for full coverage. His specs. 80 foot long halls. Wants dome cameras. Wants POE. From experience i can say a camera of .1 lux sensitivity is needed. Assume 1/2 inch sensor is needed for this sensitivity for lens calculations. Assume 5 foot wide halls. Assume cameras are placed 10 feet from each end of hall facing each other. the distance to the hall halfway point is 30 foot from camera. At this point each camera must have a FOV of 5ft. Using lens calculator this works out to 38.4mm. The far end of the hallway is 70 feet away from each camera and has the worst pixels per foot. Using the lens calculator again i find that a 38.4mm lens at 70ft has a FOV of 11.67ft. After trying a few numbers i find that a megapixel camera with a horizontal resolution of 1280 will give a pix/ft of aprox 110, a very good number for facial recognition. For reference an analog camera focused on the doors per my write up would give 480tvl / 5ft = 96 pix/ft, also very good. Now the bad news, you can not buy the megapixel camera specified. Or at least i could not find it. Dome POE .1 lux 38.4mm lens for 1/2 in sensor. (this is the hardest part, no one offers this lens) I know many of you use cameras facing each other in hallways for full coverage. Here is your chance to be a hero, and show the rest of us a camera that would actually do the job.