Soundy

There are plenty of other specs to consider besides just resolution. How do framerates compare? Codecs? Bandwidth? Low-light performance and features (ICR)?

Put it this way: the majority of 12VDC-only cameras will be a common-ground design, because it's just cheaper and easier. You can test it pretty readily with a multimeter or some other kind of continuity tester - just see if there's continuity between the power and video grounds. Anything that lists as dual-voltage (12VDC/24VAC) should be fine, because it will have an internal rectifier and regulator that separates the two grounds. Hard to say what else would be equivalent specs-wise, let alone in the price range... NexTag shows an Amazon.com ad that claims this cameras "lists for $150" but then is marked down to $60, along with other listings of anywhere from $60 to $85... a Buy.com listing claims the retail price for this camera is $200(!!!) but they'll sell it to you for $80 with free shipping. So should I be comparing to a $60 camera or a $200 camera? Put it this way: this camera goes for around $165, and blows away the specs on the Q-See in every regard, including being dual-voltage so they have no problems with baluns: http://www.cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=1073 It would be impossible to give a specific "cost threshold" because there are so many other things that affect cost... including, it would appear, whatever numbers a seller is willing to throw around to make it look like you're getting a good deal.

VERY little - Cat6 is 23 AWG vs. 24 for Cat5e.

Looks like you got it sorted out. I love my Dropbox for photo hosting - the new version automatically downloads photos from my camera or memory card, then I just link them from there, easy-peasy! If you don't have Dropbox, I highly recommend it... use this link to sign up and I get extra free space http://db.tt/ygdgklS That said... decent-looking job for a n00b!

A ground loop occurs when a signal has two different paths to ground of differing potentials - which most often means, two very different resistances. It causes the line to behave like an antenna, picking up all manner of interference and electrical noise. For example, a camera whose case is connected to its signal ground, mounted to a metal building, will have its direct signal path to the DVR ground (which is usually connected internally to an earth ground); it will also see a path via the building, into the earth, back to the DVR via the earth ground on its power supply... but with all that extra metal and the earth itself in the path, it will have a different resistance than the direct path. In this case, cheap cameras' electronics will share a ground point for the power and signal. A balun is essentially a transformer with its windings in-line with the video and ground leads. Since transformer windings have significant DC resistance, that means there's resistance in the signal ground path. Now the signal will also find a ground path via the power ground connection, back to the power supply, then via another camera's power ground, and finally back to the DVR via that camera's video ground... which is going through another balun, thus adding resistance to that path... and boom, you have a ground loop. Typically as you add more cameras, the problem becomes worse, as every one of them creates yet another path to ground. With 8 cameras, that means each camera will have eight separate signal ground paths, each of different potential. The fix is to break the multiple paths somehow. Using separate wall warts means the cameras don't have a path via the other cameras' power grounds. Using cameras with built-in regulators (particularly dual-voltage types) means they have separate power and signal grounds, so the problem doesn't occur. Or your can get ground-loop isolators, but to me that's a "hack workaround", just throwing money at a symptom rather than spending it to avoid the problem in the first place. All this means is that the wiring is much more likely to pick up even the slightest interference. If you're in an environment with very low electrical noise, the problem may be minimal and possibly not even noticeable. Just need the appropriate power bars There are plenty out there that have multiple wide-spaced outlets for transformers.

Only probably downside, if you're using a central power supply for all the cameras, is ground loops. This is an expected side-effect of using baluns with cheap cameras that use a common video and power ground. Baluns will work with just about any pair of wire: Cat5, Cat6, Cat3, phone wire, station wire, speaker wire... extension-cord wire, in a pinch... twisted-pair wire adds an extra degree of interference rejection, but that shouldn't be a problem with the short runs you're dealing with. Cat5 and Cat6 DO require different RJ45 connectors, as Cat6 is a heavier-gauge wire than Cat5. Make sure you get the right ones. Nothing else, really... if the cameras include individual wall-wart power adapters, I'd stick to those, to avoid the ground-loop problem.

Gah, Imageshack sucks so hard for hosting... hate it loading up their bloated ad-riddled interface every time I click one of your pics

Eight cameras is going to take a lot of bandwidth, especially if they're megapixel. The upstream may be enough to pipe it all through (assuming you keep them all well under 1Mbps), but if you have bandwidth caps, you'll probably run up against them in short order. You might be better off looking at something like VideoIQ, cameras that can record internally with video analytics (so you can more precisely control what does and doesn't get recorded), and save the bandwidth for just viewing them.

Since NTSC spec is 525 lines, with 482 being visible, plus the fact no DVR records over 480 vertical pixels, anything over 520 TVL is really extraneous. Don't get hung up on the the camera's TVL, there's a lot more to what makes a good image.

Sean may be able to confirm, but I believe the Proline is the same model as the Zeus, both made by Dahua.

Yes, it can... but why not just record them all at D1? Recognition isn't just a factor of the DVR's resolution setting. You ideally want to position the camera to allow you to either tighten the view as much as possible, or have it as close as possible to the subject. The more of the frame is filled with the person's face, the easier it will be to recognize them - even a tight shot where the person's face fills the frame at CIF will be more effective than a wide shot at D1. FPS has *zero* effect on the picture quality... just the "smoothness" of movement. If someone is standing at your door, you're not going get any more detail at 30fps than you would at 1fps, you'll just get 30 times as many individual images. And of course, you'll use 30 times more drive space. 7fps is more than sufficient in most cases, unless you're capturing something that's fast-moving. Check this for some samples of different frame rates: http://www.panasonic.com/business/security/demos/PSS-recording-rates.html

What are the cameras used for/looking at? I recommend this camera as a good all-around unit: http://www.cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=1073 As far as PTZ, they're neat to play with, but not very effective without a human operator. Save your money.

One of the most consistant problems I encounter with cat 5/6 installations. I am yet to see rodent damage to coax enough to cause problems. Of course where you are you may have "super" rodents I've seen cameras with rodent damage: the little thin coax coming out of the cameras, the power wires, and the interconnecting wires inside a dome camera. We ended up building little wire cages for the back of the cameras and hanging the wire up off the T-bar, and where it did have to lay on a surface, we ran it through BX armor. And yes, it's more difficult for them to do enough damage to the coax to cause a problem... pretty easy to chew through one side of an 18/2 to kill power to the camera, though.

Thanks for the input... what do you do about the power? Every balun I have come across limits the power to ~300 feet. No they don't. 330'/100m is a spec limitation on *ethernet* over UTP. It has no bearing on analog video or power. Your distance for power is limited by camera current draw, supply voltage, and number of pairs used, and can actually be quite substantial.

I'm using a series of routers with DD-WRT firmware set up in a WDS MESH network around the house... I can plug a camera into any of them and it's online. Pretty handy!

Cat5e generally retails for about $80-$90 per 1000' box Just sayin' Thanks, I found this one, looks good. I see there are 12V and 24V ones, does most CCTV use 12V or 24V? http://www.2mcctv.com/product_info-VeiluxVPS12810.html No, I meant search on the BOARD, not all of Google That would have led you to these: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev08p-vps.htm - combined balun and power supply unit. This by the DVR, suitable baluns at the cameras ends, terminate the Cat5 with RJ45 plugs, and away you go. But with Siamese cable, that other power supply is fine. 12 vs 24V depends entirely on what your cameras require - if you're going with the CNBs, they'll support either, but you probably want to stick with 12VDC so it will support any cheaper cameras.

Like the others have said, avoid "Green" drives in DVRs - their power-saving features don't generally agree with the constant read/write cycles a DVR requires.

Let me put it this way: I HAVE NEVER HEARD LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THE JUDICIARY CLAIM THAT FINGERPRINT IDENTIFICATION WAS INFALLIBLE. So when someone starts off making some "eye-opening documentary" by claiming that it is, and then sets out to debunk it... I'm sorry, but that's not worth the electrons it's made from. The only place law enforcement thinks fingerprints are 100% reliable is on TV.

Dahua. Per Shockwave's suggestions: ESDV-PROLINE-8 or ESDV-FULLD1-8. Anything that does D1 resolution will give you the highest resolution you can get out of analog (720x240). Beyond that, it's all in the quality of your cameras and how tight an area you can zoom in on.

Nope. Considering I've never heard of fingerprints being regarded as as "infallible", it sounds like it starts with a tinfoil-hat premise to begin with... thus, not worth my time.

Can't say I've heard of fingerprints being regarded as "infallible".

How about ACTi's NVR software? Don't their cameras come with a free version? http://www.acti.com/product/category/Video_Management_System

RESOLUTION, no - 704x480 is about the best you'll do with NTSC video (some do a little more, up to 720 or 740, but that's not a significant difference). QUALITY, on the other hand... those cameras look pretty washed-out. You can definitely do better. Depends... how much did these cameras cost? This is an excellent all-around camera that can be had for $165 and up. No "night vision" BS required in most instances - they work extremely well with very little ambient light. You can't do this without separate audio wire (or without something that will multiplex the video and audio over the single coax, but that won't be cheap). There aren't many... mainly because there's not a lot of demand for it, due to the bandwidth limitations of most residential broadband - upstream simply isn't fast enough or reliable enough to support it, and bandwidth caps would be overrun on a regular basis. It SOUNDS like a neat idea, but unless you have something like FiOS service, it's really not practical. A better idea if you're that worried about getting your DVR stolen or something, is to hide it away somewhere safe, and access it via network or KVM extender. The aforementioned camera is hard to beat... the DVR really depends on what your budget is. Dahua is a good name to look at - they're sold under a number of different brand names. Google "ESDV-PROLINE-8" for a good starting point.

Dahua-made DVRs, which have a good rep here on the forum. I'd go Cat5e with baluns, personally... ideally with a "VPS" power supply unit (search the board for "VPS"). Cat5e is cheaper than Siamese, easier to work with, and makes for easy upgrading to IP cameras later, if you so desire. It also gives you the ability to run multiple video feeds on a single cable.