Jump to content

westom

Members
  • Content Count

    38
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral
  1. A good ethernet protector has RJ-45 jacks and a ground wire. That connects each ethernet wire low impedance to earth via that ground wire. Conduits must connect firmly at each end to the house and galvanized pole's single point earth ground - a hardwire typically 6 AWG. AC electric needs a 'whole house' protector. For the house, that must be rated at least 50,000 amps. A smaller 'whole house' protector would be on AC power at the pole. Most critical part of this protection system is the quality of and connection to what is actually doing protection. What is harmlessly absorbing energy. Single point earth ground electrode. If the soil is conductive and monolithic, then one ten foot earth ground rod at the galvanized pole (that human safety codes also require) should be sufficient. If the 'electric wire in buried conduit' enters at the service entrance and make a direct connection to the breaker box (which has a properly earthed 'whole house' protector), then your picture now changes to show that electric wire connected low impedance to earth.
  2. The house has an earthing electrode. You have what is called a 'house grounding wire'. That wire between 'lightning arrestor' and the critical item not shown (earthing electrode) must be low impedance. Then any surge the connects to the buried Cat6 wire or connects to the 'galvanized pole in concrete' connects to earth BEFORE entering the house. But only if every incoming Ethernet wire makes that low impedance (ie wire has no sharp bends) connection to an earth ground electrode. And only if all other incoming wires (ie telephone, AC electric, TV cable, satellite dish, dog's invisible fence, etc) also connect low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to the same single point earth ground. Unfortunately, a 'buried electric in conduit' violates that rule. So a surge (ie direct lightning strike) to 'galvanized pole in concrete' or a direct lightning strike to earth distant to the left will use a 'buried electric in conduit' to enter the house. Then go hunting for earth ground destructively via household appliances. For example, one good path might be into the house via 'breaker', into a TV via its AC electric, out the TV destructively via its HDMI port, into a TV cable box, then out to earth ground via the TV coax cable that was properly connected to (the not shown) earth ground electrode. What would the uniformed assume? HDMI port was damage. So a surge must have entered on TV coax cable to be incoming to that HDMI port. Nonsense that comes from wild speculation - not learning how surges do damage. HDMI port damaged because a completely separate system (camera) was not properly earthed at both ends of the 'electric in buried conduit'. HDMI was an outgoing path to earth; not the incoming surge path. Same applies to the other end. Not shown is the earth ground electrode that bonds directly to a 'galvanized pole in concrete'. Since that will act like a Franklin lightning rod. A direct strike to that 'galvanized pole in concrete' will use a 'buried electric in conduit' to connect to earth destructively. That pole must have, at minimum, a ten foot copper clad rod driven into earth with a low impedance (ie hardwire has no splices; is connected by properly selected connectors for use with copper and aluminum) connection. Called the "galvanized pole in concrete's single point earth ground". Also not found is a connection from each ethernet wire to that 'galvanized pole in concretes' single point earth ground. Every wire that enters the structure called 'galvanzied pole in concrete' must first connect to that single point earth ground (each wire connects low impedance via a protector). Now, safety code says a 'buried electric in conduit' must only connect to one earth ground. That would the the house's earth ground. So the safety ground wire at a 'galvanized pole in concrete' technically should not connect to the pole and its single point earth ground. That is a safety code requirement. However we need anything powered by the home's AC power to make a safety ground connection back to the home's 'breaker' box safety ground so an AC electric fault will trip that breaker (rather than kill a human). So we must connect that 'buried wire in conduit' safety ground directly to a 'galvanized pole in concrete' so that pole will not become electrically hot - a threat to human life. Just like at the house, every wire incoming to that 'galvanized pole in concrete' must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that pole's single point earth ground BEFORE rising up to connect to the camera. That connection would be a hardwire (for safety ground and metallic conduit) or protectors (for AC hot wire, AC neutral wire, and all eight ethernet wires). If any wire does not make that single point earth ground connection, then a direct lightning strike (to the house, to telephone wires down the street, or to earth distant to the right) may use the the house 'breaker', 'buried ethernet' or 'electric in buried cable' to enter the camera. Then destructively exit the camera to earth via a 'galvanized pole in concrete'. Notice that any distant lightning strike to earth is also a direct connection to the 'electric wire in buried conduit' and a to 'buried Cat 6 in conduit'. Being buried means lightning can still connect to those wires. In every case, is it always about the path from a cloud (or other surge source) to earth. Any wire entering either structure must make a low impedance (ie wire not inside conduit) connection to single point earth ground electrode before entering. Demonstrated are many paths that will cause damage because your picture violates that rule multiple times.
  3. The camera and house should be treated as if separate structures. Any wire that interconnects those two 'structures' should be connected to an earth ground for that 'structure'. You don't just earth the camera. If the camera uses ethernet, then all eight wires in the RJ-45 connection must connect to earth via a protector. Powered from a distant low voltage power source must also must also connect low impedance to that camera's earth ground either directly or via a protector. Same applies to other end of wires that enter a building. Those must also make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that building's single point earth ground (at the service entrance). Figure in this Tech Note demonstrates same. In that case, structures are a building and tower: http://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/TNCR002.pdf Any wire in any incoming cable to either 'structure' gets earthed at each structure's single point earth ground. Do same with every wire that enters building and camera.
  4. First learn the basics. No protector - even the best protector in the world - does protection. Best protection is a hardwire that connects to what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. Ethernet wires cannot connect directly to earth. So a protector only does what a hardwire does better. Below protectors is a vertical line connected to three horizontal lines. That should have all of your attention. That ground symbol defines protection. Again, protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection - that earth ground. Concepts that apply include single point earth ground. That ethernet wire must drop down a service entrance grounding electrode. A protector is installed there to make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to what is doing the protection. That earthing electrode must also be protection for AC electric, telephone, and TV cable. Otherwise all protection is compromised. This essential concept is called single point earth ground. If any wire in every incoming cable does not connect low impedance (ie no sharp wire bends or splices) to that earth ground (either by hardwire or protector), then protection even for each camera is compromised. Only scam protectors block or absorb surges. Effective protection means one can say how a surge (lightning is one example) connects low impedance to earth. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That tiny earth ground symbol underneath each protector was by far the most important fact for effective protection.
  5. What we have been discussing exists on phone, cable, and satellite wires - if properly installed. For example, effective protection on the cable is a wire from their cable to your earth ground. No protector required. Industry standards and National Electrical code require this protection to exist at every home. Unfortunately many satellite dish installers are not well versed in what they are required to do. For example, some installers will ground their dish to a water faucet. One actually ran a wire into a nearby flower box.
  6. Many decades of design and field analysis also discovered why things fail. But never just fix something. We always had to say why damage happened so that other (ie overstressed) items in that path were also replaced before failing maybe a month later. Best evidence comes from the dead body. Both for murders and for surge damage analysis. You were taught what a lightning rod does in elementary school science. What a properly earthed lightning rod does for a structure is what a properly earthed 'whole house' protector does for household appliances. In both cases, either current is connected outside and harmlessly to earth. Or that current is inside hunting for earth destructively via the structure or its appliances.
  7. Little details can make a major difference. For example, the protector and earth ground can be good according to the electric company and electrician. But they are only taught about human safety. Your issue is transistor safety. A wire good enough to meet code can also violate what is necessary for transistor safety. For example, if the ground wire goes out a breaker box, up over the foundation, and down to earth ground rods, then the connection is low resistance and higher impedance. Even those sharp bends over the foudation have compromised protection. If the earth ground from the meter goes into the breaker box inside metallic conduit, then that wire is all but disconnected from the earth ground that attaches inside the breaker box. Both examples are perfectly fine by code, electrician, and power company. But are bad for surge protection. I am bothered by the 6 pair (12 wire) cat5 cable. A previously discussed ciation made a criticallly important point. Any wire even if disconnected can be a source of surges. Those other four wires must connect directly to earth since the protector will not connect them to earth. Also the shield must have a direct connection. If the shield or any four wires are not earth within feet to the earth ground rod, then those carry a surge into the building bypassing protection. Then the surge connects from one of those four disconnected wires, through insulation, to all other ethernet wires (after the protector). Again, appreciate why protection can be so easily compromised by such trivial details. Knowing how and why protection works is so important. That citation also showed other simple and easily overlooked mistakes. Those 'mistakes' are why earthing is an 'art'. The 'art' explains why four disconnected Ethernet wires in that cable could compromise the entire protection system.
  8. Even that link shows separate single point grounds for separate structures. A camera 275 away cannot be earthed to the house single point earth ground. It must have its own single point earth ground. It does. Apparently the problem lies in the earthing of the house. Apparently an RG-45 cable does not make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to the building's single point earth ground. So a surge finds a better earth ground destructively via the POE switch. More could be said if answers to questions in previous ten point were provided. For example, which wire is carrying the surge? RG-45 has eight wires. Which one carries a surge destructively into what part of the POE router? POE involves higher voltages than ethernet. So a POE compatiblity protector (for RG-45) must state it will handle POE voltages. Otherwise the protector can burn out long (no longer exist) before any surge exists. Router damage implies a building's single point earth ground is somehow compromised (too much impedance) or may not exist (ie connection via protector burned out). That citation provides some useful lessons. For example a 30 meter connection of hefty 2 AWG copper ground wire creates how much voltage difference end to end? 1,500,000 volts. This example demonstrates why the connection to single point earth ground is so critically important. Why it must be less than 10 feet. Why a connection to single point earth ground must not be in metal conduit and must not have any sharp bends. And why every foot shorter seriously increases protection. Also discusses problem creators such as other wires entering the building (ie unused phone line that was not earthed). Most important is best evidence - the dead body. To eliminate damage means identifying each specific internal parts damaged. To identify which path - specifically which wire - is carrying a surge. The useful lessons in that citation say same. He identified each reason for damage. Only then was the reason for damage eliminated.
  9. Previous technology protectors were called 'the carbons'.
  10. The overall concept: A 'tech note' best demonstrated an installation. Two structures are shown, Any wire (overhead or underground) that enters either structure must first connect (low impedance) to the structure's earth ground before rising up to enter. http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf Replace their antenna with your camera. Your installation should be similar. Note a more extensive earth ground around their building. It features multiple earth ground rods. That is one big single point earth ground. If your earth ground is not as extensive, it still must make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to any cable TV wire, a telco 'installed for free' protector. and the 'whole house' protector. And to any other wires that might be incoming including the 275 foot cable (even well pump should be considered). A connection to earth is either direct (ie cable TV) or via a protector (all other incoming cables). Best protection means all connect to earth ground at a common point. Sometimes previous linemen mistakes make that impractical. A utility 'tech tip' demonstrated good and bad earthing. And a kludge solution when a preferred solution is impractical: http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp Two underlying principles are conductivity and equipotential. Everyone understands conductivity in terms of low resistance and more ground electrodes. However conductivity is also about lower impedance (ie no sharp bends in a wire that is every foot shorter). Equipotential is why incoming cables are best connected to the same electrode and why better earthing surround the building for just a little more protection. In essence, multiple earth ground rods or an even better wire loop makes potential underneath the building at a constant or equipotential. Those are underlying principles. A more pragmatic explanation: A 275 foot cable entering without first connecting to earth means strike near to or well beyond the camera might find a better connection to earth via the POE port (as explained in the previous post). It explains damage to one port or to electronics that control a group of ports. A strike to one structure can be a direct strike to electronics in the other structure. This not only applies to your situation. It is also explains why communication cables (even your phone) are earthed at both ends. Why any ethernet that interconnects two buildings must also meet the same standards 'single point ground' requirements. And why your 275 foot cable must connect to the building's single point ground as explained in three paragraphs above. Best location for a protector is where a connection to earth is as short as possible. For example, cable TV must drop down and connect to earth before rising up to enter the building. If that cable enters a second floor with a longer wire down to ground, then protection is compromised. Your cable to the camera should meet the same 'as short as possible connection to earth' requirement. A ground wire from camera metal to earth is typically 12 gauge (green insulated). That is what code typically calls for. However just as good earthing can probably be 14 or 16 AWG. But it should be solid (not stranded) - to reduce adverse corrosion. Connect to the common electrode. Of course, protector being near to earth might also create environmental problems since I think that APC protector is only for interior service. Being near to earth might create additional physical, moisture, salt, and even snow problems. Other notes: 5 pin devices provided by ssmith10pn really are not fuses. Those are protectors. For example, fuses take milliseconds or longer to trip. Are mostly for disconnecting power after damage results. And work by disconnecting. Protectors operate in nanoseconds. Leave a connection intact after a surge. And work by shunting; not disconnecting. IOW a fuse and protector are two completely different devices (even if both share a common package).
  11. First, a protector does not report the existance of a surge. Only grossly undersized protectors fail. The UPS could only report an AC anomaly (low voltage) that occurred long after a surge had terminated. However why that low voltage existed can be an informative symptom. We leave that for later consideration. Second, damage to an IP camera or POE means a current was incoming and outgoing through that defect. Of course, identifying exactly which wire conducted that current would go a long way to better identifying that path. Third, I see reference to a protector at the distant camera. Does that RG45 protector (claim to) connect all eight ethernet wires as short as possible to the adjacent earth ground. And was it designed for higher POE voltages rather than lower standard ethernet voltages? POE voltages can disconnect a protector only designed for standard ethernet. See the curled ground wire on that RG-45 protector picture? Hopefully that wire is straightened. A curled ground wire compromises protection. Four, I do not see where an RG-45 protector also exists where the same ethenet wire enters the house. And makes a short connection (ie 'less than ten foot' with not even sharp wire bends) to an earth ground electrode used by AC electric, cable, and telephone. Five, look closer at the camera. For a surge to find earth destructively means it also must have an incoming and outgoing. path. If the protector is not for POE, then protection on some RG-45 wires has failed. Then that wire can be a potentially destructive path through the camera. Is the camera metal? Then its metal frame is also a conductor and must connect to earth ground (that the RG-45 protector also connects to). Every electrical path into that camera must connect short to earth either directly (ie the frame) or via the protector (all eight ethernet wires). Also a ground wire must not be inside metallic conduit. I am assuming each camera does not have a separate power cable; only used POE for power. Six, view the POE port. Obviously only that one port is in a destructive path since it is the only one damaged. But which wire? If possible, that detail goes a long way to better identifying a destructive incoming and outgoing current path. Again, if a 275 foot wire is not earthed (via a protector) where it enters the building, then this is a potential incoming path for damage. Seven, lightning strikes earth distantly. Its 3 mile path through earth from the strike location to earth borne charges comes to the earth ground for that camera. The electrically shorter path is up that earth ground into the camera, through the 275 wire where no earth ground connection exists at the building entrance. Then into the POE port and out its AC electric cord to earth. Yes that surge does pass through many items. But only one or a few items in that path are damaged. Others components conducted a surge without damage or are overstressed (will fail months later). But again, the shortest 3 mile path from strike to charges is up one earth ground, through the cable, and back to earth on another earth ground. If that path remains outside the POE and camera, then no damage. If that path out of or back to earth is electrically shorter via camera or POE port, then electronics can be damaged. Eight, the amount of speculation diminishes by identifying each damaged part or relevant wire that was on a path from the surge to earth. The first thing I would consider is how every wire at both ends of the 275 foot cable connects to earth. Is the RG-45 protector for POE or only for lower voltage ethernet? Does the protector at both ends make a short as possible connection to earth? Does the ethenet cable also have a shield that is not earthed as each end? Best connection from cameras protector to earth is where the wirer rises from earth. Since a decreased distance from that wire to earth and an increased distance between camera and protector increases protection. As noted earlier, any curls, sharp bends, ground wire inside metallic conduit, or unnecessary splices will increase impedance and compromise protection. Nine, another trick that makes surge damage less likely is a buried ground wire from the camera earth ground electrode to the building's single point earth ground electrode. In parallel with the 275 foot cable. That means a distant lighting strike need not connect to the house earth ground by traveling up the camera's ground and use ethernet wires (inside the 275 foot cable). Just a few ballpark ideas. Finally, a dead body is always best evidence. What specific parts are damaged because a surge current passed through them? Both on the POE and camera? Those 'dots better define fewer lines'; better identify a destructive current path to earth. Seriously limits the number of potential suspects.
  12. westom

    Surge protector for IP camera

    The answer is always based in an answer to this question. What may be a good path to earth ground? For example, if a wire connects two separate structures, then a wire leaving or entering must connect to that structure's single point earth ground before entering or connecting to anything on/in that structure. That rule applies to every wire inside every cable. A tech note demonstrates the concept: http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf Two structures (a building and tower) must each have their own single point earth ground. Any wire interconnecting the two must first connect to earth ground (either directly or via a protector) before entering the structure. To make both earth grounds even better, a buried ground wire interconnects the single point earth grounds. In your case, replace the tower with a camera. You mist implement a similar solution. If you do not, then a lighting strike to one structure may find a best path to earth destructively via electronics in the other structure. Your answer is found in the question: what can be the best path to earth?
  13. westom

    Power surge?

    Assuming a typical wire size in that video cable, the "sustained high current draw" would be on the order of 20 or 30 amps (volts are irrelevant). So, what are potential sources of that "sustained high current"? And what 'protection' did not avert the damage? Those questions suggest a few and likely reasons for that damage.
  14. westom

    Power surge?

    Apparently a relevant expression was ignored. A professional who does this stuff defines what is relevant: We all also learned an important concept in elementary school science. Conclusions from observation are classic junk science. (Other examples are spontaneous reproduction or moldy bread breeds maggots.) Colin Bayliss explains that damage in his book. Your conclusion is speculation based only in observation. In other research, Alan Taylor demonstrated that most all lightning struck trees (>90%) have no appreciable indication. Another example of less energy in a lightning strike. But some see the rare exception. Then, using speculation only from observation, assume that major tree damage is due to massive energy in lightning. Using same reasoning, a car's spark plug also created so much energy as to move the car. Reality. Spark plug simply ignited something with higher energy inside the engine - gasoline. Lightning simply ignited something with higher energy inside the tree - sugars. Sugar (not lightning) was the high energy source that did damage. But that means learning basic science rather than creating a junk science conclusion only from observation. Most damage from lightning does not even create a visual indication. However a higher energy source (follow-through current) can create significantly greater damage. Many just *assume* energy was from lightning rather than learn the underlying science. Knowledge also means numbers. Such as those summarized by Colin Bayliss in his book. Learn science (ie read the books) before jumping to conclusions based only from observation. OPs observation suggests a high energy source that could only exist with a failure elsewhere. To say more would require not provided information such as wire gauge, wire insulation, household wiring mistakes or faults, etc. Information that would explain a higher energy source to cause a potential fire condition. I would be concerned. Because other 'required functions' should have made that 'threat' irrelevant.
  15. westom

    Power surge?

    Lightning does not have sufficient energy to do that melting. AC utility electricity does. Lightning can create temporary connections (ie plasma) that would connect AC power (the follow through current) to that cable. But then fuses should have tripped to avert damage that extensive. Surge protectors would have done what their manufacturer said it would do - nothing for the typically destructive type of surge. Did you really think that power strip (hundreds of joules) would absorb the energy of a surge (hundreds of thousands of joules)? Did you really think a 2 cm inside that strip would stop what three miles of sky could not? It doesn't. It does not claim to protect from the other and typically destructive surge (lightning is only one example). A typically destructive surge passes right through as if the adjacent protector did not even exist. So the question is what would have provided sufficient energy to melt or burn a signal wire? Any sign of flame? How many amps would be necessary to cause a copper wire to melt? Maybe 25 amps per wire. Where did that much current come from? Good question. So there must be more to the story. Wire that did not meet insulation standards? Signal wire that was even thinner? Fuse that was compromised or missing. Maybe even a wiring fault inside the wall receptacle? Some are only a problem when multiple other faults also exist.
×