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westom

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  1. A good ethernet protector has RJ-45 jacks and a ground wire. That connects each ethernet wire low impedance to earth via that ground wire. Conduits must connect firmly at each end to the house and galvanized pole's single point earth ground - a hardwire typically 6 AWG. AC electric needs a 'whole house' protector. For the house, that must be rated at least 50,000 amps. A smaller 'whole house' protector would be on AC power at the pole. Most critical part of this protection system is the quality of and connection to what is actually doing protection. What is harmlessly absorbing energy. Single point earth ground electrode. If the soil is conductive and monolithic, then one ten foot earth ground rod at the galvanized pole (that human safety codes also require) should be sufficient. If the 'electric wire in buried conduit' enters at the service entrance and make a direct connection to the breaker box (which has a properly earthed 'whole house' protector), then your picture now changes to show that electric wire connected low impedance to earth.
  2. The house has an earthing electrode. You have what is called a 'house grounding wire'. That wire between 'lightning arrestor' and the critical item not shown (earthing electrode) must be low impedance. Then any surge the connects to the buried Cat6 wire or connects to the 'galvanized pole in concrete' connects to earth BEFORE entering the house. But only if every incoming Ethernet wire makes that low impedance (ie wire has no sharp bends) connection to an earth ground electrode. And only if all other incoming wires (ie telephone, AC electric, TV cable, satellite dish, dog's invisible fence, etc) also connect low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to the same single point earth ground. Unfortunately, a 'buried electric in conduit' violates that rule. So a surge (ie direct lightning strike) to 'galvanized pole in concrete' or a direct lightning strike to earth distant to the left will use a 'buried electric in conduit' to enter the house. Then go hunting for earth ground destructively via household appliances. For example, one good path might be into the house via 'breaker', into a TV via its AC electric, out the TV destructively via its HDMI port, into a TV cable box, then out to earth ground via the TV coax cable that was properly connected to (the not shown) earth ground electrode. What would the uniformed assume? HDMI port was damage. So a surge must have entered on TV coax cable to be incoming to that HDMI port. Nonsense that comes from wild speculation - not learning how surges do damage. HDMI port damaged because a completely separate system (camera) was not properly earthed at both ends of the 'electric in buried conduit'. HDMI was an outgoing path to earth; not the incoming surge path. Same applies to the other end. Not shown is the earth ground electrode that bonds directly to a 'galvanized pole in concrete'. Since that will act like a Franklin lightning rod. A direct strike to that 'galvanized pole in concrete' will use a 'buried electric in conduit' to connect to earth destructively. That pole must have, at minimum, a ten foot copper clad rod driven into earth with a low impedance (ie hardwire has no splices; is connected by properly selected connectors for use with copper and aluminum) connection. Called the "galvanized pole in concrete's single point earth ground". Also not found is a connection from each ethernet wire to that 'galvanized pole in concretes' single point earth ground. Every wire that enters the structure called 'galvanzied pole in concrete' must first connect to that single point earth ground (each wire connects low impedance via a protector). Now, safety code says a 'buried electric in conduit' must only connect to one earth ground. That would the the house's earth ground. So the safety ground wire at a 'galvanized pole in concrete' technically should not connect to the pole and its single point earth ground. That is a safety code requirement. However we need anything powered by the home's AC power to make a safety ground connection back to the home's 'breaker' box safety ground so an AC electric fault will trip that breaker (rather than kill a human). So we must connect that 'buried wire in conduit' safety ground directly to a 'galvanized pole in concrete' so that pole will not become electrically hot - a threat to human life. Just like at the house, every wire incoming to that 'galvanized pole in concrete' must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that pole's single point earth ground BEFORE rising up to connect to the camera. That connection would be a hardwire (for safety ground and metallic conduit) or protectors (for AC hot wire, AC neutral wire, and all eight ethernet wires). If any wire does not make that single point earth ground connection, then a direct lightning strike (to the house, to telephone wires down the street, or to earth distant to the right) may use the the house 'breaker', 'buried ethernet' or 'electric in buried cable' to enter the camera. Then destructively exit the camera to earth via a 'galvanized pole in concrete'. Notice that any distant lightning strike to earth is also a direct connection to the 'electric wire in buried conduit' and a to 'buried Cat 6 in conduit'. Being buried means lightning can still connect to those wires. In every case, is it always about the path from a cloud (or other surge source) to earth. Any wire entering either structure must make a low impedance (ie wire not inside conduit) connection to single point earth ground electrode before entering. Demonstrated are many paths that will cause damage because your picture violates that rule multiple times.
  3. The camera and house should be treated as if separate structures. Any wire that interconnects those two 'structures' should be connected to an earth ground for that 'structure'. You don't just earth the camera. If the camera uses ethernet, then all eight wires in the RJ-45 connection must connect to earth via a protector. Powered from a distant low voltage power source must also must also connect low impedance to that camera's earth ground either directly or via a protector. Same applies to other end of wires that enter a building. Those must also make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to that building's single point earth ground (at the service entrance). Figure in this Tech Note demonstrates same. In that case, structures are a building and tower: http://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/TNCR002.pdf Any wire in any incoming cable to either 'structure' gets earthed at each structure's single point earth ground. Do same with every wire that enters building and camera.
  4. First learn the basics. No protector - even the best protector in the world - does protection. Best protection is a hardwire that connects to what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground. Ethernet wires cannot connect directly to earth. So a protector only does what a hardwire does better. Below protectors is a vertical line connected to three horizontal lines. That should have all of your attention. That ground symbol defines protection. Again, protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection - that earth ground. Concepts that apply include single point earth ground. That ethernet wire must drop down a service entrance grounding electrode. A protector is installed there to make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to what is doing the protection. That earthing electrode must also be protection for AC electric, telephone, and TV cable. Otherwise all protection is compromised. This essential concept is called single point earth ground. If any wire in every incoming cable does not connect low impedance (ie no sharp wire bends or splices) to that earth ground (either by hardwire or protector), then protection even for each camera is compromised. Only scam protectors block or absorb surges. Effective protection means one can say how a surge (lightning is one example) connects low impedance to earth. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That tiny earth ground symbol underneath each protector was by far the most important fact for effective protection.
  5. What we have been discussing exists on phone, cable, and satellite wires - if properly installed. For example, effective protection on the cable is a wire from their cable to your earth ground. No protector required. Industry standards and National Electrical code require this protection to exist at every home. Unfortunately many satellite dish installers are not well versed in what they are required to do. For example, some installers will ground their dish to a water faucet. One actually ran a wire into a nearby flower box.
  6. Many decades of design and field analysis also discovered why things fail. But never just fix something. We always had to say why damage happened so that other (ie overstressed) items in that path were also replaced before failing maybe a month later. Best evidence comes from the dead body. Both for murders and for surge damage analysis. You were taught what a lightning rod does in elementary school science. What a properly earthed lightning rod does for a structure is what a properly earthed 'whole house' protector does for household appliances. In both cases, either current is connected outside and harmlessly to earth. Or that current is inside hunting for earth destructively via the structure or its appliances.
  7. Little details can make a major difference. For example, the protector and earth ground can be good according to the electric company and electrician. But they are only taught about human safety. Your issue is transistor safety. A wire good enough to meet code can also violate what is necessary for transistor safety. For example, if the ground wire goes out a breaker box, up over the foundation, and down to earth ground rods, then the connection is low resistance and higher impedance. Even those sharp bends over the foudation have compromised protection. If the earth ground from the meter goes into the breaker box inside metallic conduit, then that wire is all but disconnected from the earth ground that attaches inside the breaker box. Both examples are perfectly fine by code, electrician, and power company. But are bad for surge protection. I am bothered by the 6 pair (12 wire) cat5 cable. A previously discussed ciation made a criticallly important point. Any wire even if disconnected can be a source of surges. Those other four wires must connect directly to earth since the protector will not connect them to earth. Also the shield must have a direct connection. If the shield or any four wires are not earth within feet to the earth ground rod, then those carry a surge into the building bypassing protection. Then the surge connects from one of those four disconnected wires, through insulation, to all other ethernet wires (after the protector). Again, appreciate why protection can be so easily compromised by such trivial details. Knowing how and why protection works is so important. That citation also showed other simple and easily overlooked mistakes. Those 'mistakes' are why earthing is an 'art'. The 'art' explains why four disconnected Ethernet wires in that cable could compromise the entire protection system.
  8. Even that link shows separate single point grounds for separate structures. A camera 275 away cannot be earthed to the house single point earth ground. It must have its own single point earth ground. It does. Apparently the problem lies in the earthing of the house. Apparently an RG-45 cable does not make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to the building's single point earth ground. So a surge finds a better earth ground destructively via the POE switch. More could be said if answers to questions in previous ten point were provided. For example, which wire is carrying the surge? RG-45 has eight wires. Which one carries a surge destructively into what part of the POE router? POE involves higher voltages than ethernet. So a POE compatiblity protector (for RG-45) must state it will handle POE voltages. Otherwise the protector can burn out long (no longer exist) before any surge exists. Router damage implies a building's single point earth ground is somehow compromised (too much impedance) or may not exist (ie connection via protector burned out). That citation provides some useful lessons. For example a 30 meter connection of hefty 2 AWG copper ground wire creates how much voltage difference end to end? 1,500,000 volts. This example demonstrates why the connection to single point earth ground is so critically important. Why it must be less than 10 feet. Why a connection to single point earth ground must not be in metal conduit and must not have any sharp bends. And why every foot shorter seriously increases protection. Also discusses problem creators such as other wires entering the building (ie unused phone line that was not earthed). Most important is best evidence - the dead body. To eliminate damage means identifying each specific internal parts damaged. To identify which path - specifically which wire - is carrying a surge. The useful lessons in that citation say same. He identified each reason for damage. Only then was the reason for damage eliminated.
  9. Previous technology protectors were called 'the carbons'.
  10. The overall concept: A 'tech note' best demonstrated an installation. Two structures are shown, Any wire (overhead or underground) that enters either structure must first connect (low impedance) to the structure's earth ground before rising up to enter. http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf Replace their antenna with your camera. Your installation should be similar. Note a more extensive earth ground around their building. It features multiple earth ground rods. That is one big single point earth ground. If your earth ground is not as extensive, it still must make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to any cable TV wire, a telco 'installed for free' protector. and the 'whole house' protector. And to any other wires that might be incoming including the 275 foot cable (even well pump should be considered). A connection to earth is either direct (ie cable TV) or via a protector (all other incoming cables). Best protection means all connect to earth ground at a common point. Sometimes previous linemen mistakes make that impractical. A utility 'tech tip' demonstrated good and bad earthing. And a kludge solution when a preferred solution is impractical: http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp Two underlying principles are conductivity and equipotential. Everyone understands conductivity in terms of low resistance and more ground electrodes. However conductivity is also about lower impedance (ie no sharp bends in a wire that is every foot shorter). Equipotential is why incoming cables are best connected to the same electrode and why better earthing surround the building for just a little more protection. In essence, multiple earth ground rods or an even better wire loop makes potential underneath the building at a constant or equipotential. Those are underlying principles. A more pragmatic explanation: A 275 foot cable entering without first connecting to earth means strike near to or well beyond the camera might find a better connection to earth via the POE port (as explained in the previous post). It explains damage to one port or to electronics that control a group of ports. A strike to one structure can be a direct strike to electronics in the other structure. This not only applies to your situation. It is also explains why communication cables (even your phone) are earthed at both ends. Why any ethernet that interconnects two buildings must also meet the same standards 'single point ground' requirements. And why your 275 foot cable must connect to the building's single point ground as explained in three paragraphs above. Best location for a protector is where a connection to earth is as short as possible. For example, cable TV must drop down and connect to earth before rising up to enter the building. If that cable enters a second floor with a longer wire down to ground, then protection is compromised. Your cable to the camera should meet the same 'as short as possible connection to earth' requirement. A ground wire from camera metal to earth is typically 12 gauge (green insulated). That is what code typically calls for. However just as good earthing can probably be 14 or 16 AWG. But it should be solid (not stranded) - to reduce adverse corrosion. Connect to the common electrode. Of course, protector being near to earth might also create environmental problems since I think that APC protector is only for interior service. Being near to earth might create additional physical, moisture, salt, and even snow problems. Other notes: 5 pin devices provided by ssmith10pn really are not fuses. Those are protectors. For example, fuses take milliseconds or longer to trip. Are mostly for disconnecting power after damage results. And work by disconnecting. Protectors operate in nanoseconds. Leave a connection intact after a surge. And work by shunting; not disconnecting. IOW a fuse and protector are two completely different devices (even if both share a common package).
  11. First, a protector does not report the existance of a surge. Only grossly undersized protectors fail. The UPS could only report an AC anomaly (low voltage) that occurred long after a surge had terminated. However why that low voltage existed can be an informative symptom. We leave that for later consideration. Second, damage to an IP camera or POE means a current was incoming and outgoing through that defect. Of course, identifying exactly which wire conducted that current would go a long way to better identifying that path. Third, I see reference to a protector at the distant camera. Does that RG45 protector (claim to) connect all eight ethernet wires as short as possible to the adjacent earth ground. And was it designed for higher POE voltages rather than lower standard ethernet voltages? POE voltages can disconnect a protector only designed for standard ethernet. See the curled ground wire on that RG-45 protector picture? Hopefully that wire is straightened. A curled ground wire compromises protection. Four, I do not see where an RG-45 protector also exists where the same ethenet wire enters the house. And makes a short connection (ie 'less than ten foot' with not even sharp wire bends) to an earth ground electrode used by AC electric, cable, and telephone. Five, look closer at the camera. For a surge to find earth destructively means it also must have an incoming and outgoing. path. If the protector is not for POE, then protection on some RG-45 wires has failed. Then that wire can be a potentially destructive path through the camera. Is the camera metal? Then its metal frame is also a conductor and must connect to earth ground (that the RG-45 protector also connects to). Every electrical path into that camera must connect short to earth either directly (ie the frame) or via the protector (all eight ethernet wires). Also a ground wire must not be inside metallic conduit. I am assuming each camera does not have a separate power cable; only used POE for power. Six, view the POE port. Obviously only that one port is in a destructive path since it is the only one damaged. But which wire? If possible, that detail goes a long way to better identifying a destructive incoming and outgoing current path. Again, if a 275 foot wire is not earthed (via a protector) where it enters the building, then this is a potential incoming path for damage. Seven, lightning strikes earth distantly. Its 3 mile path through earth from the strike location to earth borne charges comes to the earth ground for that camera. The electrically shorter path is up that earth ground into the camera, through the 275 wire where no earth ground connection exists at the building entrance. Then into the POE port and out its AC electric cord to earth. Yes that surge does pass through many items. But only one or a few items in that path are damaged. Others components conducted a surge without damage or are overstressed (will fail months later). But again, the shortest 3 mile path from strike to charges is up one earth ground, through the cable, and back to earth on another earth ground. If that path remains outside the POE and camera, then no damage. If that path out of or back to earth is electrically shorter via camera or POE port, then electronics can be damaged. Eight, the amount of speculation diminishes by identifying each damaged part or relevant wire that was on a path from the surge to earth. The first thing I would consider is how every wire at both ends of the 275 foot cable connects to earth. Is the RG-45 protector for POE or only for lower voltage ethernet? Does the protector at both ends make a short as possible connection to earth? Does the ethenet cable also have a shield that is not earthed as each end? Best connection from cameras protector to earth is where the wirer rises from earth. Since a decreased distance from that wire to earth and an increased distance between camera and protector increases protection. As noted earlier, any curls, sharp bends, ground wire inside metallic conduit, or unnecessary splices will increase impedance and compromise protection. Nine, another trick that makes surge damage less likely is a buried ground wire from the camera earth ground electrode to the building's single point earth ground electrode. In parallel with the 275 foot cable. That means a distant lighting strike need not connect to the house earth ground by traveling up the camera's ground and use ethernet wires (inside the 275 foot cable). Just a few ballpark ideas. Finally, a dead body is always best evidence. What specific parts are damaged because a surge current passed through them? Both on the POE and camera? Those 'dots better define fewer lines'; better identify a destructive current path to earth. Seriously limits the number of potential suspects.
  12. westom

    Surge protector for IP camera

    The answer is always based in an answer to this question. What may be a good path to earth ground? For example, if a wire connects two separate structures, then a wire leaving or entering must connect to that structure's single point earth ground before entering or connecting to anything on/in that structure. That rule applies to every wire inside every cable. A tech note demonstrates the concept: http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf Two structures (a building and tower) must each have their own single point earth ground. Any wire interconnecting the two must first connect to earth ground (either directly or via a protector) before entering the structure. To make both earth grounds even better, a buried ground wire interconnects the single point earth grounds. In your case, replace the tower with a camera. You mist implement a similar solution. If you do not, then a lighting strike to one structure may find a best path to earth destructively via electronics in the other structure. Your answer is found in the question: what can be the best path to earth?
  13. westom

    Power surge?

    Assuming a typical wire size in that video cable, the "sustained high current draw" would be on the order of 20 or 30 amps (volts are irrelevant). So, what are potential sources of that "sustained high current"? And what 'protection' did not avert the damage? Those questions suggest a few and likely reasons for that damage.
  14. westom

    Power surge?

    Apparently a relevant expression was ignored. A professional who does this stuff defines what is relevant: We all also learned an important concept in elementary school science. Conclusions from observation are classic junk science. (Other examples are spontaneous reproduction or moldy bread breeds maggots.) Colin Bayliss explains that damage in his book. Your conclusion is speculation based only in observation. In other research, Alan Taylor demonstrated that most all lightning struck trees (>90%) have no appreciable indication. Another example of less energy in a lightning strike. But some see the rare exception. Then, using speculation only from observation, assume that major tree damage is due to massive energy in lightning. Using same reasoning, a car's spark plug also created so much energy as to move the car. Reality. Spark plug simply ignited something with higher energy inside the engine - gasoline. Lightning simply ignited something with higher energy inside the tree - sugars. Sugar (not lightning) was the high energy source that did damage. But that means learning basic science rather than creating a junk science conclusion only from observation. Most damage from lightning does not even create a visual indication. However a higher energy source (follow-through current) can create significantly greater damage. Many just *assume* energy was from lightning rather than learn the underlying science. Knowledge also means numbers. Such as those summarized by Colin Bayliss in his book. Learn science (ie read the books) before jumping to conclusions based only from observation. OPs observation suggests a high energy source that could only exist with a failure elsewhere. To say more would require not provided information such as wire gauge, wire insulation, household wiring mistakes or faults, etc. Information that would explain a higher energy source to cause a potential fire condition. I would be concerned. Because other 'required functions' should have made that 'threat' irrelevant.
  15. westom

    Power surge?

    Lightning does not have sufficient energy to do that melting. AC utility electricity does. Lightning can create temporary connections (ie plasma) that would connect AC power (the follow through current) to that cable. But then fuses should have tripped to avert damage that extensive. Surge protectors would have done what their manufacturer said it would do - nothing for the typically destructive type of surge. Did you really think that power strip (hundreds of joules) would absorb the energy of a surge (hundreds of thousands of joules)? Did you really think a 2 cm inside that strip would stop what three miles of sky could not? It doesn't. It does not claim to protect from the other and typically destructive surge (lightning is only one example). A typically destructive surge passes right through as if the adjacent protector did not even exist. So the question is what would have provided sufficient energy to melt or burn a signal wire? Any sign of flame? How many amps would be necessary to cause a copper wire to melt? Maybe 25 amps per wire. Where did that much current come from? Good question. So there must be more to the story. Wire that did not meet insulation standards? Signal wire that was even thinner? Fuse that was compromised or missing. Maybe even a wiring fault inside the wall receptacle? Some are only a problem when multiple other faults also exist.
  16. Why would they do that when POR (Power On Restart) is a standard function inside all electronics? Power cycle does the hard reset. It's a rhetorcial question.
  17. The ground rod and wire is only $20. Maybe $25 in your region. An important improvement because safety demands connections at both wire ends be inspected. Anyone can install it. However, yes, it may be a budget buster if an electrician does it. I only priced the parts. Don't connect to or even touch AC service. Ground connects to a safety ground bus bar inside the breaker box. Same bar that you 'touch' when touching a computer's chassis. The code is quite clear in Article 250.53(D)(1): Those other grounds are any other electrode that is not a water pipe ground. National Electrical Code Handbook written by the MacPartlands is even blunter. Their capital letters; not mine. The only ground that cannot exist alone is a water pipe ground. What you have. Some electricians still deny the many reasons why a water pipe ground may be insufficient. But an engineer who did this stuff knows better. Electric companies do not care what kind of ground you have. That grounding and any resulting problems are 100% on you. Codes only accept your now insufficient grounding due to grandfathering. IOW that grounding was acceptable when transistors did not exist. You were asking about protection of a camera and DVR. Both current codes and electronics protection require that $20 of grounding parts installed. By you, with a friend's help, or by an electrician. All other suggestions (ie ground wire from the camera's base) were of lesser importance - if needed at all. Meanwhile, electricians have little knowledge of these relevant electric principles. For example, a 200 watt transmitter is connected to a long wire antenna. Touch one part of that wire to feel no voltage. Touch another part to be shocked by over 100 volts. Why two completely different voltages on the same wire? An electrician obviously could not say. Nothing in code discusses it. Those electrical principles also say why grounding for electronics best exceeds what electricians are taught. Earthing per code (for human safety)? An electrician understands that. Earthing electricity that is not 60 Hz (for transistor safety)? Different threats and rules apply. A friend had only water pipe grounding. Apparently I saw lightning strike from many miles away. Because water pipes were conducting that current, lead solder joints melted; resulting in a flooded basement. Those lead solder joints are conductive for 60 Hz electricity (what electricians are taught). And insufficiently conductive for what concerns you. Just one of many reasons why water pipes alone are no longer sufficient for earthing. This from an engineer with generations of experience. Who must even teach experienced electricians about transistor safety concepts AFTER damage happened. Code does not even discuss it. If cameras and DVR need protection, the most obvious defect is 100 year old earthing. It was sufficient when transistors did not exist. However, you have how many direct lightning strikes per generation in your neighborhood? Well, history suggests you need not worry about protecting any camera. However, if you feel any camera needs protection, then fix what would be the defect in a camera protection system. BTW, 16 AWG wire is too small for lightning protection. Use 12 AWG to earth the camera. Better experience says so.
  18. Why? 1) Your cameras do not have a serious direct strike threat. Otherwise, best is an earthed lightning rod located above the camera and roof. 2) Greater threat to your cameras and DVR is a lightning strike to utlity wires even far down the street. 3) Most important and what you must address is insufficient earthing of the breaker box, telephone protector, and cable to a single point earth ground. A solution necessary for both human safety (to meet code) and transistor safety (to protect cameras and DVR). A problem solved probably by $20 for a ground rod and copper wire. 4) Never ground anything to water pipes. That is a human safety threat. Could even connect lightning through someone in the shower. Water pipes are also a poor conductor for lightning protection.
  19. A building that old probably has no good earth ground. Codes that once permitted your grounding have changed. You want a dedicated ground rod. Or even better, multiple ground rods. A bare copper quarter inch wire must go from the breaker box to that dedicated ground. And each connection must be located to be inspected.. Your building is code safe only because of grandfathering. What is no longer acceptable anywhere else can remain in your building. Best is to spend the maybe $20 for ground rod and wire to upgrade earthing; even for human safety. Learn from Franklin. Lightning strikes a wooden church steeple because wood is an electrical conductor connected to earth. Since wood is not a very good conductor, then it is also damaged. Your camera only half way up the wall is only one of many electrical conductors that lightning might used to connect to earth. No strikes to any nearby houses in 100 year? I would not worry much about lightning. A better earth ground connected to the AC breaker box, telephone protector (ie NID), and cable TV wire is recommended. More important than a ground wire to a camera. Leaved water pipe connections to the breaker box intact. Those are necessary to make places such as a shower or kitchen sink safer. But incoming utiliities are best connected to an common electrode whose only purpose is earth ground. That both meets and exceeds code requirements.
  20. Water pipes are the only earth ground even defined by code as insufficient. Never ground anything electrical to water pipes for many reasons including human safety, plumber safety, shower safety, plastic pipes, and excessive impedance. The ground for a camera must be a dedicated electrode. At mimimum, an 8 foot copper clad steel rod. The single point ground is different. Every wire that enter the building must connect to this common and the best building earth ground. Again, water pipes are not the best ground despite so much hearsay that assumes otherwise. Running a ground wire inside metallic conduit means the ground wire no longer is conductive to a surge. Again a concept that electricians would not understand. That ground wire must also be separated from all non-grounding wires. Concepts that also say why a wall receptacle ground is not earth ground. Ground wire from telephone 'installed for free' protector and from cable TV must be at least 12 AWG. Same would apply to the camera. The electrical nature of surges is why things done only for 60 Hz current are insufficient. Requirements such as no sharp bends in the ground wire, 'less than 10 feet' from a protector, no metallic conduit, etc would be new to most electricians since that is not required by code. But that is required for surge protection. But again, put the risk in perspective. If a camera on the side of a building is at great risk, then so is the rest of that wall. Another reason to consider a lightning rod. Or maybe the risk is smaller. A decade of neighborhood history would say more.
  21. You are not over thinking it. But you are asking questions that electricians often do not understand. Electricians are techs. They know what must connect to what. For the most part, do not know why. Are rarely trained in concepts that involve transistor safety. Code only addresses human safety issues. It would have been even more helpful to have numbers from the meter. However, (except for the reset line and ground wire which I don't understand its purpose), you have a camera similar to some I have worked with. Hopefully internal electronics are not connected to the case. Earth the case (which is electrically different from other grounds). Then a direct strike to the case will follow the shortest wire to earth. And need not hop into electronics. How likely will that surge 'hop'? Everything you do to make the earth ground better means lightning is less likely to 'hop' that separation. Now that is protection of camera electronics. Protection of the DVR involves where the ethernet wire enter. Also important is for every ethernet wire to make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth ground. Not wall receptacle safety ground. The same single point ground used by AC electric, telephone, satellite dish, and cable TV. Obviously, if any ethernet wire connects directly, then ethernet does not work. So we make this earthing connection with a protector. Some examples: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/Residential/Residential/docs_Surge%20Protection/Low-Voltage%20Telco%20Surge%20Protector%20TPSTEL.pdf http://www.surgepack.com/comtrack-cat5e.htm http://www.protectiongroup.com/ProtectionTechnologyGroup/media/PTG/ProductDataDocuments/1453-003.pdf?ext=.pdf http://www.ditekcorp.com/product-details.asp?ProdKey=59 http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=151 In every case, effective protectors have the only connection that provides protection - the ground wire or ground stud that must make a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. Of course, that assumes lightning strikes are a problem - as high as one every ten years. Better would be a lightning rod located up above the roof. With the only item that makes a lighting rod effective - the short as possible connection to a best earth ground. Then the camera is inside the 60 degree 'cone of protection'. A far greater threat to a camera and DVR is a lightning strike to utility wires far down the street. That is a direct strike to all cameras, DVR, and everything else. A threat that may occur maybe once every seven years. Facilities that can never have damage always earth a 'whole house' protector on incoming AC mains. Either behind the meter or attached to the breaker box. Again, I have no idea what that 'ground and reset wire' purpose is. Since properly designed electronics automatically reset when power is applied. At minimum, earth (not safety ground) the camera case. Keep that ground wire separate from earth ground. Route all ethernet wires to enter at the service entrance (as close as possible to single point earth ground). Even if you do not use ethernet protectors, the installation is simple if required later.
  22. I am almost as confused as you are by that nearly useless reply. So, better is to make an educated guesses as to what is connected to what. Then try to match that to what the sales rep said. For example, you have two 12 volt wires and a ground wire. Also must be some sort of signal wire. What type is that? Coax? Etherenet? RS-485? At least describe the connector. Now get a digital volt meter. Even better is one that has a diode check function. Set it to that diode check setting or to the lowest ohm measurement. Measure the conductivity between every 12 volt, ground, metal camera frame, and signal wire. Using the red probe. And then reverse it to makes the same measurements using the black probe (because some conductive paths also have polarity). We must determine some basic concepts. For example (and hopefully) the two 12 volt DC wires have no connection to the metal frame. The ground wire connects either to the frame or to one of the 12 volt DC wires. With these facts, then I can better describe what you have and what to connect to what. Now, where is each camera located? For example, if under an eve? Or separated from the building in another building or tree? Exposed on a roof top pole? Then I can better explain what is and is not needed. A provide some important concepts that may apply to future installations.
  23. That protector strip only disconnects it protector parts as fast as possible from that surge. And leaves the surge connected to everything else. Read its spec numbers. It only claims to protect from a surge that is typically so small as to not damage any camera. Protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Either the surge is absorbed harmlessly by earth. Or that surge goes hunting for earth elsewhere - such as through the DVR. How many joules does the power strip absorb? More helpful is exactly what that ground wire connects to. For example, a better designed camera would isolate electronics from it metal case. Earth only the case with that ground wire. Then no surge need find earth ground destructively via camera electronics and the DVR. Ground wire could be for signaling purposes - to become part of the cable's RF shield. Again, what it connects to inside must be known. Understand this. No protector does protection. Not one. Either a protector connects surges (including lightning) low impedance (a wire as short as possible) to earth ground. Or that protector (the best protector in the world) only protects from surges that typically cause no damage. Many protection system have no protectors. But every protection system - no exceptions - always has what does the protection - earth ground. Again, protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. How many joules does that power strip claim to absorb? Near zero? Surge protection means you know the path a surge would take to earth. If that path is through electronics, then damage. If the path to earth is both shorter and bypassing electronics, then no damage. Protection is that simple. What is the current path? Therefore know what that ground wire actually connects to internally to obtain a more useful reply here.
  24. westom

    lightning protection both ends of cable

    bud registered and posts here only because I posted here. He is paid to promote power strip protectors. It is his job. So he follows me everywhere posting nasty and to promote power strip protector myths. It is his job. Where does his post include the always required numbers? No numbers even for his own products? Numbers would expose half truths and subjective claims. Would put profits at risk. Where are the manufacture spec numbers that claim that protection? He has been asked that for most of ten years. And never once posted a manufacturer number that defines protection. He cannot post what does not exist. Now facts with numbers. First, induced surges can create thousands of volts on a nearby 'long wire' antenna. So an NE-2 (a neon glow lamp also found inside illuminated switches) conducts maybe one milliamp of current. Then those thousands of volts drop to tens of volts. Induce surges are that easily made irrelevant. And made irrelevant by protection already inside every appliance. Protection is about protecting from transients that can overwhelm that existing protection. Facilities that can never have damage (ie all munitions dumps) routinely earth 'whole house' protectors. Then induced surges are also made irrelevant. An induced surge is about conducting milliamps. Destructive surges are about thousands of amps that can overwhelm superior protection inside every appliance. Numbers. Second, if a CAT5 cable connects via a balun, then you have protection already found inside every network interface card. Protection routine in ethernet devices is rated about 2000 volts. Protection that is not overwhelmed IF a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter) connection to earth is before a transient gets anywhere near that balun. Balun does ineffective protection if earthing is after that balun. (Especially if an appliance is earthed.) A Cat5 protector is earthed at the service entrance so that transients need not seek earth destructively via the balun or via galvanic isolation required on all ethernet devices. BTW, Cat5 protectors are also available for 24 volts since some Ethernet systems also carry 48 volts. Find numbers associated with something called POE. Third, protection is never provided by a protector. If using multiple protection (ie multiple earth grounds), then damage is made easier. So that a transient current does not seek earth via appliances, all incoming wires must connect to the same protection - the same single point earth ground. Otherwise current would be inside hunting destructively for that other earth ground. Damage is always about no surge inside and hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Single point earth ground is critical. Always. Fourth, a plug-in protector has no earth ground. It has a safety ground. A sales promoter will cite an IEEE brochure. Many different protectors are defined. Then it shows protectors that even make damage easier. Page 42 figure 8. A protector, adjacent to a TV and too far from earth ground, simply provides a destructive path through any nearby appliance. In the figure, a protector with only a safety ground (no earth ground) earths that surge 8000 volts destructively through a nearby TV. IEEE even defines that damage with a number: 8000 volts. A point routine from all professionals including the IEEE. Once current is inside a building, then it will hunt for earth destructively. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either, destructively inside during a hunt for earth. Or harmlessly outside via a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to earth. Your choice. Dr Martzloff warns about this damage his 1994 IEEE paper when a plug-in (point of connection) protector is used: Fifth, why a constant reference to low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters')? Impedance says why safety ground is not earth ground. Sixth, you appear to be confused. Never earth the appliance. That only makes an appliance a better and destructive path to earth. Earthing is best distant from protected appliances. Telcos, for example, want something less than 50 meter separation between earthed protectors and electronics. But again, numbers. Separation increases protection. Page 42 figure 8 happens when separation does not exist. 8000 volts destructively to earth via a nearby TV. We engineers, over many decades, have also seen that mistake cause entire network damage. Required were direct lightning strikes without damage. We even learned from some galling mistakes. You need not suffer from those same mistakes. Best solutions here include facts and numbers. Any protection that might work inside the building is already done better inside every appliance. Worry about transients that can overwhelm that internal protection (ie 2000 volts on Ethernet ports). Hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate where? Numbers that always separate profit centers from actual surge protection.
  25. westom

    lightning protection both ends of cable

    Protection means energy is connected to and harmlessly dissipates in earth. Best protection is provided by a ground wire. But an Ethernet wire cannot carry signals if earthed directly by ground wire. Effective protector does what protectors did even in the late 1800s when first patented. Protector makes a connection from each of eight wires to earth so that low voltage (single digit) signals on a Cat5 wires are not disrupted. If energy connects low impedance to earth, then it does not go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Then superior protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed. Protection from a destructive type of surges is always about where that energy is connected and dissipated. Protection means a protector connects all eight Cat5 wires to earth. A relevant current number was discussed in the previous post. Of course, other solution are available.
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