knightvision

So let me get this straight... If I say that our PC Based systems are just as if not more reliable than those HiSharp DVR's, or even the Kalatel systems, even if I have service call history and statistics to back it up, it is for my own personal reasons or bias? We wholesale both Standalone units and PC Based systems. When it comes down to it, I don't care which units my dealers sell, just so long as they sell. I can do a quick search on the internet, and find a whack of Embedded systems that are nothing but garbage when it comes to reliability. The same is true for PC Based systems. I don't think SA units should all be hailed as "reliable" while all PC systems should be written off.

The important thing to look at is the Voltage. When talking Amps, you are typically looking at the MAXIMUM capabilities of the Power Supply. While you cannot put a 400mA PS on a camera that requires 500mA, the inverse is not true. The PS will only put out the amps required by that particular camera, up to it's maximum. You should not have a problem using that PS with that camera.

Interesting quote rory, what article did you find it in? How old is it? I have seen it posted here before. It has several glaring assumptions that really do need to be addressed. While the claims it makes may be true for some "manufacturers" (I do use the term losely) who simply slap a card and software in a PC over top WinXP Home, it is not the case for a *properly* built and designed PC Based system. Unfortunately, it is next to impossible to do this using GEO cards and software. A *proper* PC Based system will be built and designed from the ground up around the DVR Card, and all the little extras MicroSatan throws in there will be removed. In our systems we have done this by removing the Windows Shell and replacing it with our own custom shell (only 64k). Only DVR Mission Critical threads are running on the system. This frees up loads of resources to ensure the DVR runs properly. It also helps set proper expectations with your client. I agree with you on one point Rory - if you sell a client something that looks and acts like their home computer, they will inevitably use it as one. At NO point does our system look or behave like a PC. After a full hour long demonstration of our product, and letting the client take some time to play with the system themselves, I have had DEALERS ask if it's an embedded or PC Based system. The biggest problem with using most of the Card and Software systems out there is that they require you to go in to Windows to do certain tasks like Burn a CD, or set up network settings. Again, a proper system will allow you to do these things from within the application itself. In terms of reliability, I REALLY beg to differ. We have distributed several different embedded DVR manufacturers' products over the years. While we have not used the Kalatel product which you so love, we do distribute the HiSharp model you have been touting recently because we found it to be one of the more reliable systems with a decent price. We have had more service calls relating to standalone systems in the last 6 months, than we have for our PC systems in the last 2 years. When comparing an embedded system and a cheap card and software PC based system, you're absolutely right, the embedded will win every time. When comparing an embedded system and a *properly* built PC based system, the only difference I have been able to see is that the PC Based system has a much nicer GUI, and can be much more intuitive. I think I'm going to have to cut this post here, but I do look forward to your response.

joe4, You probably won't get too much response on this board regarding this post. It would be very bad ettiquette for us all to start undercutting each other's pricing in a public forum such as this. I will tell you, that $16k for a 16 camera system, including a 120FPS, 240GB DVR, installation, and armored domes w/ IR does not seem high to me at all. Just remember, there is no rule that you have to go with the first quote you receive. Please do feel free to get multiple quotes from different sources. That being said, don't go on price alone. In the DVR industry, you really do get what you pay for - always make sure you ask for, and check references as well. Know who you are dealing with. If you go with a reputable dealer you may pay a little bit more, but will get quality product and good service to boot.

Rory recently posted a similar problem with a COP IR Camera in the "Security Cameras" forum. Check out the "what's wrong with this picture" thread. I'm starting to believe it is a problem with the COP cameras, not with your installation.

Aside from Camden Manufacturing (CU Height Strips) and Silent Witness (ExitView) are there any decent manufacturers of Height Strip Coverts out there? Anybody tried anything a little less expensive than these two? $500 a pop for a 400Line Color camera seems a little steep to me...

Those are pretty good prices Rory... Does that include HD? What size?

That is the Hisharp DVR-043. It's a decent, low end model. We took it on a couple months ago. Our dealers sell quite a few of them. Motion Sensing, IR Remote, Networkability are soem of it's features. If you want to see HiSharp's specs for it (I'll warn you now, their descriptions are rarely intelligible... You'll see what I mean on their website) you can find it here: http://www.hisharp.com/catalog/catalogDocument.php?did=179

I'd switch over to UTP instead. With a passive UTP Baun you can extend a run up to 2000', active bauns can go a mile

Wow, I have a CNB Weatherproof/Vandal Proof dome with one year over the counter warranty, 4-8mm Varifocal Lens, and 2x Digital Zoom for less than $250. Absolutely amazing camera, we have several in locations with -40 degree temperatures. PM me for more info. Spec sheet can be found here: http://www.pstdvr.com/products_solutions/cctv_cam/vandalproof_camera.htm We also sell just the housings.

"CCTV Camera" Wouldn't want to confuse any customers

We have a camera here that is currently being used for a similar application. Our client purchases them from us in large lots, and mounts them on Combine Harvesters to monitor the processes as they go through the field. If anything gets gummed or jammed up the operator knows instantly. The specs can be found here: http://www.pstdvr.com/products_solutions/cctv_cam/waterproof_camera.htm PM me if you want pricing or more info.

What are some of the funniest things you've seen or heard in your workings? I came across this article today that I thought would be a good start: Thieves lift PCs from security show By Lester Haines Published Thursday 17th June 2004 12:11 GMT It may not be daring as the attempted heist of the Millennium Star diamond from the Millennium Dome - an audacious Sweeney-style blag involving JCB, speedboat and nail gun - but at least the wags who lifted two PCs from Asia Securitex 2004 in Hong Kong appear to have got away with it. Yesterday's snatch is particularly embarassing for the show's organisers since the whole point of the expo is to showcase the latest in crime-busting technology. As victim Shinah Lunty told the South China Morning Post: "If you can't expect good security here, where can you expect it?" Quite so, although Hong Kong police inspector Bob White explained that a mainland China outfit was probably behind the raid since Securitex was viewed as a place of "easy pickings". Which begs the question: what do mainland China blaggers consider a challenge to their criminal expertise? Fort Knox take note.

I apologize if this seems like too much of an advert, or is in bad taste, but it really sounds to me like people here are looking for something to compete with the GEO line. When we got into the DVR business, we found that most DVR's seem to be designed by engineers. Most of the time, when an end user sat down to get information off the system, they had to crack open the owners manual. Due to this, we have sat down with non-DVR Experts and Dealers through every step of the process, and designed the software from the ground up. It has cost us extraordinary amounts of money and taken 5 years to get to the level that we are at now, but feedback is extremely positive. I challenge anyone here to put our product, and GEO side by side. Have someone not well versed in DVR's (much like most end users) sit down and do a search, or get information off the system unaided. There really is no comparison. In terms of reliability, I could go on for pages about steps we have taken to make our DVR stand up to the the grind your clients will put the units through. We know our dealers aren't out selling our units, if they are constantly tied up doing service calls. PM or email me if you would like more info on the steps we have taken. While we do not sell directly to End Users, many of them are willing to stand up and vouch for our product, service, and support. As our developers are all on-site, it is very easy to get tech support. If I can't give you the answer, I can walk upstairs and ask one of the guys who built that particular feature. We like to work very closely with our dealers and end users, to give them, and you as much input into the product development as possible. A remote demo and flash presentation of our system can be found here: http://www.pstdvr.com/products_solutions/digital_video_recorder.htm Again, I apologize if this posts seems to be in bad taste. I really want you to know that there are GOOD, RELIABLE alternatives to Geo out there. Pls email or PM me if you would like more information. David

I think what the question comes down to is this: Where are the courts drawing the line between taking "reasonable steps" to ensure the safety of the guest, and creating a "false sense of security" i.e. the recent case, which was a prolonged/aggravated assault under the watchfull eye of a dummy. The judge stated that the "cameras" combined with signage that said the place was being monitored, led the lady to believe that if something happened, help would be on the way. I'll try to track down the actual ruling. Cooperman, I am not totally positive on what UK courts have ruled on the subject, but I recently read an article in a South African magazine (of all places) that cited "recent UK Court rulings."

I am not a lawyer, nor have I researched this thoroughly, but through speaking with dealers and end users in my area (Canada, may be different in the US, but probably quite similar) I have learned that the implications of Dummy Cams really depends on the application. If it is to reduce shrinkage, it will deter, but it wouldn't take a sharp lawyer to ask where the video evidence damning his client would be, if there is supposedly a camera there. This can make prosecution quite a bit more difficult. To deter vandalism, all a camera presence does is move the vandalism to another area, not believed to be under surveillance. A camera, dummy or real, will almost NEVER deter violent crime. We have all seen the awful video from corner store robberies on TV. This includes potential offenders. They know that there is little chance of their being identified due to the footage. This leads to the real legal implications of dummy cameras. In a public area, anyone who walks in and sees the camera has a certain expectation of sense of security. Courts in the UK and Canada (not sure about the States) have already ruled this is the case. There was a recent case here where a lady was attacked in a parking garage while standing under a dummy. She succesfully sued the parking company AND the installer for creating the false sense of security. Dummy's for the most part are more hassle than they are worth. The only time I would use or recommend a dummy would be in conjunction with real cameras (I have had many interesting snippets sent to me when a covert was put in, watching the dummy. You'd be surprised what you can catch people doing when they think the "camera" has been eliminated). Anytime someone asks me for Dummies, I tell them to speak to their lawyer first. Usually, the threat of a multimillion dollar lawsuit (any lawyer will be able to cite precedence) will quickly convince them to spend the extra dough My 2 cents Dave

Not at all. The real time card is for display on the local machine only. When viewing over the network, there are so many other factors to take into account. If the network is used to communications/data transfer and other normal network stuff, this will all drastically slow your bandwidth. It will make a difference whether you have a 10/100 or Gigabit network. So many factors can affect your bandwidth, and it is this that will determine the framerates you will see remotely, not your card.

This is something my company has done for quite some time now. Most of the service calls our Dealers encounter seem to be from the End Users getting in and screwing around with the settings. Because of this, we ship all our units with a System Restore floppy, so they can stick it in, reboot, and restore back to factory default settings. We have actually even gone one step further, and given the dealer the ability to create a second backup image, so the EU can be guided *over the phone* to restore the unit from the day the installer originally left the unit, with all their settings in place. There are multiple programs out there you can use, Norton Ghost being one of them. PowerQuest also has a really robust program as well. The trick with all these when using them to load onto a new machine, is to make sure you have all your software liscences in place. It is very easy to mix up and accidentally install the same Windows, Application software, etc. onto multiple machines (and Microsoft really doesn't like this). If you have any questions about the backup software, PM me. I'd be more than happy to help, and it's a great idea. Our dealers LOVE it!

We actually tested those cameras in house here. Found the had so much distortion that we couldn't make anything out on the picture... And this was at a distance of 10', with line of sight. The manufacturer told us we must have a defective unit, so we sent it back, and haven't heard boo from them in the last 3 months.

Does anyone know of an embedded unit with CD backup capabilities? Thanx!

Dummy's can be usefull, just not on their own. Lets face it, a lot of clients can't afford to put a camera everywhere. But if you have a MIX of Dummy and Real cameras (provided they look the same) it can help deter shoplifting, etc, because the person walking in to the store doesn't know which cameras are real, and pointing at them, and which aren't. This is especially useful with smoked glass dome cameras.

I've got a basic 4 channel embedded system for $510 USD with an 80GB HD. No remote connectivity, it's a basic VCR/MUX replacement. You can view the specs here: http://www.pstdvr.com/pdf_files/specs/sm-sa430.pdf

We actually distribute a Mobile DVR. It's perfect for interior vehicle surveillance. It's got a removeable rack (slides out like an 8-track) for safe storage and easy review. It also has a Compact Flash slot for removeable memory, and an internal hard drive (20/40GB available). 15 Frames/Sec, 720x240 resolution. Great shock protection. If you want prices, just give me a shout.

www.pstdvr.com Pace Setter Technologies... They seem to have a decent selection of cameras, a dozen or so DVR's, and pretty good pricing... Anyone ever heard of these guys or used them before? What do you think of them?

Thanx DVR, I asked the Sales Rep about that. Regarding the Camera, it is a GKB camera. They claim they are able to get 550 lines out of the camera because they put additional signal processing hardware in it. I checked out the GKB site, and they too claim the camera is 550 lines: http://www.gkb.com.tw/english/02_products/01_02_inside.php?hProdid=CC-8607S He said they don't sell directly to retail clients, but refer them to their dealers. The retail clients are listed because their major claim is how easy and reliable the system is for end users.