voip-ninja

You might want to reconsider that price range... or, just get an analog camera.

Brickcom territory sales manager has gotten in touch with me and says that the version of the VD-130NP with built in IR illuminators will be ready in "about two weeks". He is proposing for me to hang onto the one I have and he will ship me the new model when it is available. If I'm still not happy he is saying he will make sure that I get my money back. Seems like a no risk situation to me.

OK, I might have to take back SOME of the criticism. While, by default the image is extremely noisy in "night mode" if you use manual exposure and use the night preset, the image is actually a little better than the Vivotek, although with 1/4 second exposure times motion will be pretty terrible. I still think it would perform quite a bit illuminators but maybe I am just fooling myself. Here's a sample, "night" exposure preset, 1/4 second, gain level set to six, infrared cut filter disengaged, and I believe set to WDR (I could be wrong on that). I had the porch lights on as I just strung a jumper down to the camera and set it up on a step ladder, it actually did better than I expected... with the porch lights off, if I cranked the gain up to 8-9 I could get away with a 1/10 second exposure time and still have a somewhat usable image.

Thanks, Yes, I've reached out to Neobits for an RMA. This is extremely frustrating. I spent a lot of time researching this camera before making a purchase. The "search" for a better camera continues.

Brickcom have reached out to me and indicated that they are still working on the version of the camera that has LED illuminators built in. It is not clear if they are asking me to hold out until such a version is available and do a swap, but I will say that they are extremely responsive. The performance now that it is darker is quite poor I'm afraid (I won't even post a screenshot because I don't want to sabotage trying to work things out with the vendor).

So, today I got my Vivotek FD8361 2MP outdoor rated fixed dome, and so far I am pretty impressed. After focusing the picture quality in daytime mode is quite good. However, I am getting really bad reflections with it in night mode, to the point that the image is unusable, any settings or tweaks to help with this? I do have the camera pointed up a fairly high amount since it is only 8' above ground level so I am concerned that possibly I am getting IR illuminator reflection back from the camera body itself. The other issue is that even though I have programmed it into my Synology NAS to do surveillance recording with motion detection from the camera, I don't appear to be getting any recordings, typically does this need to be configured in-camera as well? Thanks.

My opinion is not a popular one, but I'll shoot it your way anyhow. You might want to look at simply getting a low power consumption "appliance" that does this. The NAS vendors are now getting into the surveillance business and sell boxes that are $250-$1000 plus the cost of hard drives and camera licenses. This might be a fairly painless way for you to get into the business. They also typically offer iPhone/Android apps and access over web browsers and support quite a lot of model cameras. Setup would typically be just turning the camera on, using a DHCP reservation on the client network for it, then do minimal setup on it before adding it to the DVR software on the NAS. Another option is that you can bypass the DVR altogether and simply buy cams that have built in DVRs, Axis cameras can do this, and they appear to be very high quality gear, but they are also expensive.

I won't be doing any external illuminators so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. The biggest headache you will probably have is that the lights are going to need their own power source.

I'm sure you will get more responses about specific models but just wanted to point out that there is no reason you can't put cams outdoors due to saltwater. Cams are extremely common at marinas and even on ships. Mobotix cams are made of all plastic for example and are often used in maritime environments, just for a single example.

Steve, are you referring to the BrickCom or the Vivotek with your comment? If the Vivotek, I agree, that the IR LEDs have more of a spotlight affect and don't light a larger area up very well at all... however, my understanding is that this is the case with pretty much all fixed domes with integrated IR. This probably also explains why Axix, who is kind of the leader in a lot of ways does not even do integrated IR on their outdoor cameras and instead sells a special illuminator module (that is $350 and requires its own PoE source) for lighting a larger dark area more evenly. I am cautiously optimistic that the BrickCom will perform well enough with low light that I won't even have to use the illuminators.... in which case the 8361 will be moved to my rear patio area where the illuminated area will be much much smaller (just an entry).

Fair enough and valid point... 50 cams is pretty good for small system but I'm sure you are right about not having the enterprise/SMB features that a mid to large deployment might call for.

Here is another question.. sorry for so many questions just trying to figure this out which I think I am almost there. Do you know of any software makers that can read/write to multiple drives at once? Wouldn't it be logical to say that if you can read/write to multiple drives at once that you can do much more now? Does that make sense? Both QNAP and Synology (as well as I believe Netgear) offer Network Attached Storage boxes that now do surveillance recording. You simply buy the box, buy the hard drives, create a fault tolerant volume on the machine (very easy) and then license and setup the cameras. You can probably build your own box for a bit cheaper but these are SMB class boxes that typically have 3+ year warranties, etc. The downside is that these boxes might not be able to capture the number of cameras you want, and typically their max resolution is limited. The Synology RS3412 rack station can record a maximum of 50 cameras at a maximum total framerate of 360fps @ 1280X800 which is not too shabby for an "appliance".

OK, I finally caved in and ordered the VD-130NP Brickcom dome. I will probably have it in a couple of weeks and will put some sort of review together after I get it installed.

I would love to get ahold of a demo Brickcom piece that I could put head to head against this 8361 at the same location, so if you have any contacts, shoot me a PM.

I am getting nothing even close to that. Admittedly this is a residential implementation with extremely poor night time lighting and I'm not really a fan of leaving lights on all evening... even with my coach lights lit, with the default night settings the 8631 does not have (in my opinion) particularly good night time performance and I am having trouble with halos from the IR illuminators. The Brickcom VD-130NP is the "night pro" model from Brickcom, it has a 1/3 Sony EXMOR CMOS sensor so the night time performance should be a step up from the Vivotek. I am probably going to order the VD-130NP, and if it out performs the FD8631 in that difficult location then I will probably move the 8631 to my rear patio where I am a little less worried about the night time performance... as a plus I have a drop ceiling in the patio roof that I can install the 8631 into which will conceal it, it will look much better than the Panasonic box PT camera that is installed there now.

I think that BrickCom is probably the sweet spot for the residential user who wants something that's one step up from the really entry level stuff (vivotek, etc)... I am trying to get a reseller to get me a quote on BrickCom VD-130NP and if they can match the other price on the web I found I am more than likely going to break down and order it. I am very interested to see how the BrickCom stacks up with its better Sony EXMOR 1/3 CMOS compared to what is in most sub $1000 outdoor weatherized fixed dome cameras.

I find that the IR on most cams isn't really very noticeable except in pitch dark. If there are streetlights, porchlights, etc, the IR glow doesn't really stand out that much unless you know where to look. Some people notice these things more than others, of course. Thanks, I was referring to traditional non IR LED (white LED flashlight). I believe that Axis makes at least one camera like that. The P33 series looks outstanding, but the price is very high, the cameras do not have on board IR LED (at least the outdoor models).

The P33 series cameras look like best-in class for sure, but, honestly they are in a completely different league price-wise, at $1000 and up for the SVGA models. The 720P model that is outdoor rated looks like it goes for about $1100 or so. Basically I could get almost get two of the Brickcom cameras for the price of one of the Axis cameras and I'm not 100% convinced that the Axis is 1.5-2.0X better. Would love to see a review of the 3344 though. //edit. I looked at the 3344-VE and other outdoor cameras in the P33 line and they do not include IR illuminators, you must add an outboard IR illuminator ring (T90c) that looks fantastic, but costs $350 by itself and requires a secondary PoE run, which makes this a very costly option.

Sorry for the delay, but yes it is fanless. I just got two more of them in yesterday so I opened one up just to double check a few minutes ago to be sure. Great switch for the money if you need managed. There is also a high power version of the switch, but so far I've never needed the extra power for the cameras I'm using. I think it has an MP at the end of the part number but I'm not positive. Thanks for the response. Some of the cams I am looking at need 802.3AT that can deliver up to 25 watts so I probably will have to stick with mid-span units.

Thanks for the information on the TCM-8311, it would be a very suitable camera for my use if it had a better temperature tolerance. Right now I am leaning towards BrickCom VD-130NP which has a really outstanding "real life" demo video on the Brickcom site (I'm always suspicious of vendor videos but not much else to go on unfortunately). I like the FD-8335H but from looking at detailed pictures it appears to have the same IR lens shroud that is in my FD-8361 and I already know that is problematic... there's a good chance I will move the FD-8361 to my patio where the performance is less demanding and put the Brickcom on the corner eave where the 8361 is currently. Axis makes great cameras, but I'm not interested in ones that use bright LED illuminators that my neighbors would find distracting. If you are aware of any with exceptional night vision, let me know. Thanks.

Another "plus" of the Synology is that they make a dedicated surveillance appliance, the VS-80 (I haven't bought one yet) which allows up to 8 camera feeds to be piped directly out to a VGA display along with mini audio output. Keyboard/mouse are supported so that you can pick an individual camera or review recordings. This is a pretty cool product because, although it's not much cheaper than a dedicated net top PC, it has a dedicated Linux interface for the surveillance functions as well as only consuming about 5 watts.

The $139 license packs are indeed legit. I have installed one on my DS1511+. They actually sent me a receipt and everything and offered me the choice of either having the code scanned and sent digitally or sending me a physical copy of the code and receipt.

I have Synology but have no experience with Aver. Synology is pretty slick, it offers a very easy to use interface and adding cameras is a breeze. Since it's a NAS, all of the recordings are going to a storage volume which is probably drive failure redundant (assuming you have two or more drives and turn on Synology Hybrid Raid). One of the big features of the web based interface of the Synology that's pretty slick is that it can do sync time display of up to 9 camera feeds, so that if you have multiple cameras recording an event you can view it all in synchronized at the same time. It has an iPad and iPhone app that not only let you watch live feeds but also allow you to watch recordings (as long as they are in a supported resolution, codec, etc) and also use a search button to zero in on recordings in a specific time frame. Drawbacks to Synology, there are a few (well, more than a few); 1. Does not support transcoding of your surveillance recordings, so if, for example, you record H.264 or MPEG4 in a resolution greater than 720P, or record unsupported audio formats, you can't play the recordings on your iPhone (this has resulted in me either using MJPEG or using H.264/MPEG4 at resolutions of 800X600). 2. The iPad and iPhone app only support HTTP for authentication, not HTTPS 3. The iPad, iPhone and web apps require quite a few open network ports to function, on both the client side and the server side. As a result, for example, I can't view my cameras at my work location (on either wi-fi with my iPhone or over the wired network with a browser) ... where-as I can view my Blue Iris feed with no issues. 4. Support for cameras not on their supported list is poor (admittedly though they do support a LOT of cameras, just maybe not the oldest or newest ones out there). 5. From the Synology Surveillance web page, there is no capability for defining a motion recording area if you are doing on-camera motion events, you can only define motion recording areas if the Surveillance Station does motion detection, which results in a cpu hit. 6. Maximum recording resolution is 1600X1200, so the ability to record full 1080P or higher resolution MP cameras does not exist. 7. You have to buy a license for each camera, to the tune of about $50 per camera, although you can easily find a 4 camera license pack on eBay for $139. All in all I like Surveillance Station quite a bit, and now use it more than I use Blue Iris... if they put a little more work into it then it would be really outstanding.

FD8631 sample raw video (800X600, 10fps, quality "excellent") ... set to capture H264 events to my Synology NAS using Surveillance Station http://audi-fan.home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/demo1.mp4

Thanks for the examples! The TCM-7811 does look tempting as the online price has dipped to about $650. Looking at sample pictures of the 7811 camera body it looks like even though the LEDs are recessed it still has a gasket on the lens. My biggest issue with the 7811 is that it does not get to a particularly low temperature for an outdoor camera. It routinely gets below 0C where I live and I don't want the camera cutting out. Another interesting camera is the BrickCom VD-130NP. If powered off of a high poe injector it can operate down to -40F and draw about 25 watts. It is 1.3MP and what's really nice is that it has a motorized zoom/focus so no more fiddling with vari-focus lens adjustments. Another one is the Vivotek FD8335H which has 1.3MP, WDR, operates to -10F without special poe/heater, and has a new p-iris lens.