aethyr

What about the amperage requirements? 12VDC @ how many amps?

Any updates with sample vids? How many amps does this camera use? I'm trying to see if I can get it to use PoE using a splitter.

This is a consumer camcorder with 40x optical zoom, 1080p, etc for about $380 street. It has built in WiFi, with apparently some surveillance capabilities. Has anyone used this camera? I don't see any reviews on it... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/834569-REG/JVC_GZ_EX250BUS_GZ_EX250_Full_HD_Everio.html

I don't know the answers to these questions because I don't own one. But if Wifi is its only weakness, you could get a $30 bridge to convert to ethernet. Then the only things left would be if it can record for 10 years, in the snow, rain, hail, absolute zero and cosmic radiation in the vacuum of space, while being peppered with machine gun fire and the angry glares of 10,000 cctv pros.

I'm sure this question has been asked before, so please bear with me. I'm new to IP cameras and have only been researching for about a week. In my searching, I'm getting a bit confused and admittedly frustrated not only by the choices, but the pricing as well. I understand that an IP camera is a complex machine - it not only is a camera (with the required lens and image sensor) but also a small computer, having to process/compress/encode the video in real time and then send it over the network. However, what I don't quite understand is why 1080p at 30fps is such a challenge (so expensive) when say, a Flip camcorder is essentially the same thing (h264 real time encoding), but the only thing is missing is transmitting over the network. And yet the Flip is only $150. Of course the lens and light sensitivity won't be as good, because certainly not all 1080p are equal. Yet I don't think I've found a single 1080p/30fps IP camera for $150. What am I missing?

I'm new to the forum and cameras in general and just 1 hour on this forum has proven to be far more useful than days of googling. I was wondering if I could get some guidance. I own a martial arts school and would like to offer video as a premium service to my students. My idea is to place various IP cameras around the training mats, focus on certain areas of the mat and record during the class. The students (and family members) could then access the videos and watch themselves later. The challenge is that I need to be able to control when the cameras record and which cameras record. I don't want to record the ENTIRE class, just certain portions. And I may want to disable certain cameras if there is no one in that area. Ideally, I would be able to use a touchpad, like an android or ipad to control all my cameras. I'm a programmer so I can do this part, but I need cameras that provide an API (application programming interface). So far I've found that AXIS cameras provide an API to their cameras that I could use to accomplish this. But I really need to actually play with a real AXIS camera and see how the API works to see if the API is suitable for my needs. And as for the camera specs, I'd prefer at least 720p at 30fps. No night/low light capability needed. I was looking at PTZ cameras because I don't want the superwide angle that most fixed cameras offer. I need to zoom in on specific areas of the training area. But on this forum, I learned you can actually swap out the lens! So maybe I only need a fixed camera with a different lens...but then how do I go about finding the right lens without trying them all out? And budget...like all newbies, I thought a $100/camera would cut it. Then I realized...no. So now, I've accepted that need to spend at least $500-$600 per camera to meet my camera spec requirements. Even here, there are so many choices and brands, I don't know how to choose between these. Is there a demo program out there that lets you try out different cameras? Otherwise, I'm just hitting and missing. Or maybe I need to just hire a pro? Any other thoughts and guidance would be much appreciated.

What is YOUR definition of VALUE ? I suppose its the same as anyone else's. Why?

lets say you have 20 student and lets say each pay $ 50 per lesson so about $ 1000 per night or more times lets say 20-22 days u get my drift but noooo IP mega pix cam created by other people should cost $ 100 No wonder North America in deep s...t everybody want to pay next to nothing but everybody want to make 100's of thousands per year How ? You're so threatened by my critique on the cameras that you somehow feel I'm attacking your livelihood. Why? Because the people getting riled up about my post are the camera pros. You install cameras. Why do you particularly care if someone says that the cameras are overpriced? I'm not saying your services are overpriced, I'm saying that the manufacturers are overpricing your equipment. If one day, the prices of IP cameras slashed to 1/5 and matched consumer cameras, would you somehow loose sleep? Wouldn't that HELP your business? And yet you and Soundy are getting your panties in a bunch because I'm complaining that there is a price inequality between essentially the same two machines. My martial arts school charges what every other school in the area charges. We don't charge 10x more. We don't charge 2x more. We're in the same ballpark give or take $10-20. And guess what? We also charge the same as dance schools, crossfit, swim schools or any other instructor/student type of learning environment. Martial arts is worlds different than ballet, yet the fees are very similar. Why are they similar? Because given an average martial arts instructor or an average ballet instructor, the market is willing to endure $X for a classroom environment with hands on instruction. That's it. The common element is hands on instruction. Everything else, kicks and punches or pirouettes and splits are all irrelevant to the pricing discussion. Likewise, as I mentioned in the other thread, which you decided to drag into this one, is that the main cost of a camera is image quality. Everything else is secondary in cost. The difference between a $1000 camera and a $3000 isn't lens changeability, its image quality. Nothing in the IP camera cost equation, other than image quality, SHOULD be the majority of the cost difference between an IP cam and a consumer cam. Yet you guys are arguing that motion detection and a lens mount makes that cost difference. And I claim THAT is a :picard:

The only thing missing from the Flip cams are about $10-20 worth of hardware and firmware to make them have IP cam capability. I never said a Flip is suitable as-is for surveillance. My gripe has always been about the image quality differences and that IP camera specific features should add a little, but not astronomical cost.

+1. For this type of requirement, I would lean toward a few decent quality camcorders that have zoom, remote, and autofocus features. Maybe put them on PTZ mounts. You'll get audio and red recording lights off the camcorder. Face the camcorder screen toward the front of cam for review/aiming. I can't have a kid or a tripod because these cameras are going to be automatically recording every class, every day and each camera is going to be focused on different parts of the training area. And tripods won't work because, well, they're kinda clumsy and get in the way and could get bumped or knocked over. And I want everything automated, especially the recording. If I'm going to have 8 cameras, I don't want to walk over to each one to hit 'record'. But most important is high quality video. I wish I could use a consumer camcorder because even the cheapest ones do 1080p@30fps for under $500. But since an IP camera that can do 1080p@30fps is going to cost over $1000k, I'll have to settle for 720p@30fps.

There's a difference though, between "fluff" and requirements for the job at hand. A security camera, for example, NEEDS the ability to use different lenses for different purposes. A low-end consumer camcorder does not. If you want a camcorder that provides this feature, it adds substantially to the cost - see, for example, the Canon GL-1, listing at Amazon.com for a tidy $3,300. "Zoom with your feet" is acceptable for something hand-held; it doesn't work with fixed installations. I don't think the GL-1 has lens interchangeability. But even if it did, that's a $5 piece of hardware, not $1000. And the GL-1's cost is due to its superb image quality, first and foremost and its that image quality that justifies its cost. I guarantee you that Canon would go out of business if they produced cameras that had poor image quality, but packed with other features and then tried to charge a huge premium justified due to those features. A changeable lens mount is very simple. So is motion detection. So are the handful of other features inherent to IP cams. I understand and accept it should add some cost. But as I said before, no way should it cost 5X more.

And how much is missed while you're pulling it out, unlocking it, and and starting the recording? But that's exactly the point: you want a camera that will do all these things, it costs more than $99. You want to pay only $99, you get something that won't measure up to a lot of the demands that a professional surveillance camera has to meet. It's really no different than the reason why $800 analog cameras are still made - and still sell - when you can get $20 analog cameras: you get what you pay for. I don't have an issue with IP cameras costing more. My gripe is that they cost SO MUCH more. The main purpose of a camera is to record quality video. That is first and foremost, whether for security or consumer. If it takes crappy vids, its worthless, no matter how many bells and whistles it has. Yes, an IP camera has security features a consumer cam does not. But the opposite is true too. A consumer cam has MANY features lacking in a sec camera. So removing all the fluff from the equation, what you're left with is image quality. And the fact is, $ per $, a consumer cam's video quality is better. As for durability and motion detection... Why should that add 2x, 3x or even 5x to the cost? Motion detection is not worth that much. And as for durability, an indoor IP cam is nearly as expensive as an outdoor, so all it has to do is record 24x7, which is really is not that impressive. As others have mentioned, many consumer electronics operate 24x7 with great reliability. And the lauded reliability of IP cams is not that great - you read about many issues with them right here on this forum. I still claim that it's market segmentation that has inflated their cost.

This gives me an idea. Can your Flip record while connected to a PC? In other words, could I share the Flip's SD card as a networked folder while its recording? While I may not have a "live view", I could certainly copy the local videos onto a remote server from the Flip as its recording...

Flip no longer exists for whatever business reason that cisco decided on. There are still plenty of competitors out there that have similar features. And I doubt they were taking a $400 hit. That would be a foolish business decision. The only hardware that takes a hit are things like xbox/ps3 or printers because they make the money back from the ink cartridges or games or other consumables. Or cell phones because they make money from the service. So basically it appears that the only reason why IP cameras cost so much more for equal or worse image quality...is because they can. IP cameras cater to businesses. And it would seem that everything "business" class costs more because businesses are willing to pay it. My timewarner cable modem service at home costs me $50/month. The same exact service, same bandwidth at my business? $100/month. I thought there was something magical going on with IP cameras. But in the end, it appears its just good old fashion market segmentation. Sigh.

That makes sense. However, you have companies like Panasonic and Sony, both which have experience in consumer camcorders. You would think it would be easy to take the consumer camcorder internals, repackage into an IP camera. I know from my research that camcorders are beginning to have wifi capabilities to upload and act as surveillance cams. Has anyone looked into these as possible IP cams? Here's a link to an article about some recent camcorder offerings: http://tech.lifegoesstrong.com/article/jvc-turns-its-camcorders-security-cameras

Thanks for your thoughts. The red light trigger is...awesome! I didn't even realize that was an option. That would be perfect. And yes, if there are already iOS apps that do what I need, less work for me. And yes, audio is preferred, although not absolutely essential. Varifocal...yes that would work just fine as well, since once I acquire the right frame, I don't need to change it. Would about the AXIS M5014? It has a street price of around $550. It is 720p@30fps. Is that not a good option? But I've already learned a few things from your post - external trigger, varifocal and existing iOS apps to control the cams. Thanks!