Whatthehex

We have a Hikvision DS-96128NI-I24/H NVR with 80TB storage. After seeing a demo of an AI system, and how easy and fast it was to search, I was wondering what NVRs out there have advanced AI search and features that can purchased rather than pay a monthly fee for the service which for 32 cameras gets quite expensive. Would like to replace the Hikvision NVR with something more robust with very good, fast, intuitive search capabilities. Anyone have such a system and are you happy with it?

We really like the Lumana AI system. In the demo it was very fast and easy to search for anything. Basically it is indexing A LOT of data such as car types, colors, plates, people, if they are carrying a package or not, etc. They install some hardware at your facility that does the video processing. Another benefit is that it's the hardware in the AI video processor that does all the work, vs it being done by the camera. You have advanced search functions even with totally dumb cameras. The only issue is that it gets rather pricy as you are charged a monthly fee per camera. That lead us to start looking to see if something similar is available that one can purchase rather than pay a monthly fee. We probably don't do the volume of searches that would make the cost of Lumana justifiable to management but we are interested in something like that which allows the feed from any camera to be used for advanced searches. We're located in CA. Our Hikvison NVR was ~$5,000. Budget depends on what it can do and what it may be able to save us in terms of being able to use cheaper cameras and waste less time when we do searches. If we had the Lumana system we'd probably do a lot more searches because it's so easy and fast to look for staff not doing their job for opportunities to boost productivity, etc. Now we only do searches when something big happens that we need to document. I've never tried a PC based NVR. Not sure if using a PC based system might be better than using the Hikvision.

We have a Hikvision DS-96128NI-I24. It records reliably but it's never a good experience remote viewing and/or searching for events. It's clunky and the Hikvision software just is cumbersome and also buggy at times. Since the workforce these days seems to be comprised of adult toddlers who need constant supervision, we need something that is more responsive and easier to work with in general. There are 32 cameras on the NVR. I need to setup something inside an office on site that will be connected via Ethernet or WiFi to the NVR. I also need something to view remotely preferably on a Mac or iPad. Appreciated any recommendations.

After an hour and 40 minutes with Hikvision tech support, I'm a bit disillusioned with the response on how to view locally and remotely my Hikvision DS-2CD2955FWD-IS 5MP fisheye camera on my DS-96064NI-I16 NVR. At first they tried to add the camera a second time to the NVR under another channel to get another view other than the fisheye but that didn't work. So the rep said it was not possible to view locally through the NVR any of the unwarped views from that camera; the round fisheye view is all you can see. Huh? An NVR that just came out with latest 4.0 interface and their newer model fisheye camera can't display anything more than a round fisheye view? Can anyone here confirm that is the case? Next they said it was not a problem because it's better to view the cams through a web browser than directly from the NVR. Indeed if I entered the local IP address of the fisheye camera in the browser, I could access the various view options. However, if I accessed the NVR through the browser and used the Live View to see the cams only the fisheye view was possible. It appears that the only way to remotely see an unwarped view of the fisheye camera is to set up port forwarding on the router for each individual fisheye camera. I tried doing that but it exceeded my networking skills to set up more than 1 port forwarding that did not conflict with something. So for now just the round fisheye is all I can see when I remote in when away from the office. If anyone knows an easier, better way, please let me know. BTW, I use a Mac laptop most of the time instead of a PC but I also can run Windows my Mac when needed. Is there any viewing software that is better to view the cameras that using a web browser for remote viewing? Will be running about 30 cameras. Thanks!

I was able to speak with another tech support rep that was more knowledgeable and he said the issue is that the Value Line fish eye cameras use software dewarping. Their pro series fisheye will allow local NVR or remote viewing of the NVR with multiple unwapred views. Looks like we'll need to get the pro series cameras instead.

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Now I'm thinking about going with a 64 Ch unit since the cost is not a lot more as I may end up needing more than 32 cameras eventually. Maybe the Dahua NVR616-64/128-4KS2. I will need a POE switch but don't know much about them. Is something like the Netgear listed below good for use with the NVR? NETGEAR 48-Port Gigabit Ethernet Smart Managed Pro Switch, 4 SFP GbE Fiber Ports, Poe/PoE+, 384w, ProSAFE Lifetime Protection (GS752TP) $533 Most of the cameras I have now are the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I. They are 3MP and have worked fine for a few years now inside a warehouse and machine shop. I was thinking at first to use them on the new system to save some $$$ but they are H.264 cams so I think they will use 2x the amount of data compared to newer H.265 cameras. If that is the case what I save by using the old cams on the new system II might end up losing by having to buy more hard drives compared to buying all new H.265 cameras. For the bulk of the new cameras (about 28) I'm thinking about the ones below at around $90 each: Dahua 4MP Bullet POE IP Camera IPC-HFW4431R-Z,2.7-12mm Motorized Varifocal Lens Optical Zoom IP67 IR Day and Night Outdoor Security Surveillance Camera H.264/H.265 I'm shooting for 90 days of storage at 8FPS so it looks like I'll need 10 8TB drives. Looks like about $8-9K in hardware based on prices on Amazon and other online sources. Any suggestions for a similar setup package deal that could save some money vs buying everything separately?

I have a DS-7716NI-SP / 16 at work with 16 cameras and I need to upgrade to something more robust that can handle 32 cams. Been a while since I've been in the market for a NVR so not sure on what to expect. I'd like to have the ability to have 10-15 FPS on all cams. A key feature needed is the ability to quickly find events in the video. Originally our unit was great to find events. Then after one of the firmware upgrades, Hikvision removed the ability to quickly skip from one event to the next which really messed up the search function in videos where there are a lot of events triggered. Our unit has been okay, but I've never been that impressed with the software. It is much better than a few more consumer level units I tried for home use but it still left me lacking each time I had to do anything, such as download video, access the NVR online, etc. Hoping to get some tips here to get a commercial level NVR that is very reliable and has polished software, both for viewing locally and remotely. I'd like to have a minimum of 30 days of storage, but preferably 60 days. Thank goodness the price of hard drives has fallen a lot in the last few years! Does anyone have any experience with the DAHUA 4K NVR608-32-4KS2 32? I've seen this one come up a few times browsing around.

Agree with Buewinkle. It is a pain to mount on a vertical surface unless you are lucky enough to not need to point the lens to the right or left or need to point it toward the ground. Keep in mind there is no setting in the NVR to flip the camera image. What I had to do with my dome was remove the black plastic shield in the dome. Then I had to remove the screw that limits the travel on the lens so that I could point it down low enough. Not a big deal as the two screws on the axis are more than adequate when tightened down to keep the lens from moving. Then reinstall the black shield rotated 180 degrees. Now you can mount it vertically and have the lens pointing toward the ground instead of pointing out perpendicular to the wall. Now watch that someone will point out there is a flip image option and I did that workaround for nothing. LOL Something else you can try is to connect the camera directly to your network instead of the NVR to see if there is a setting in the cam to flip the image. That would avoid the mechanical workaround I did. Didn't think about that until now. The way I connected my Swann cam was to connect it to my router, and plug in a 12V power source to the camera. I used the Hikvision free SADP program to locate the camera on my network. From SADP I changed the camera's IP address to an IP address in my network's range, and I logged into the camera using my internet browser. From the browser there was various settings accessible. I'm guessing the Lorex dome camera may have the same browser support but not sure.

Here is my quick and dirty cam installation in my vehicle. After reading your post I'm now thinking about moving my cam behind the mirror. Only problem with that is you may not be able to see the small blinking LED so you know it is recording. I used a strip of aluminum that I bent so that is tucked in between my headliner just right so the camera is level. If I were to mount behind the mirror I would only need to bend the strip at about 90 degrees and use a heavy duty 3M adhesive strip to stick to the bak of the mirror. Inside the car it looks like a small garage opener. The photo outside is with full sun shinning on it. Still not too obtrusive. In other lighting conditions it is less visible.

I doubt there are any cams that could be fit in a mirror housing without removing the lens so that the circuit board could be conveniently positioned in the mirror. But for outside mounting if there is room behind your mirror it should blend in quite well. I have powered my dash cams and radar detectors by tapping into the power cable going into my rear view mirrors. Mirrors that have an automatic dimming feature have power cables conveniently running into them and are set up to turn on and off with the ignition, so it's a very convenient power source. Running a thin power line from the fuse box is also pretty easy to do, any usually not that hard to tuck the wire behind the trim pieces to make it a nice invisible run. Instead of having a camera pointed to the rear I'd like to have a hidden one that points to the left and right windows to record any encounters with the popo. I once tried a dash cam that had dual front and rear lenses. Maybe I could pull one of those apart and mount in a mirror facing right and left! This is the dual lens camera I bought for about $75 from Amazon. It recorded front and back, had G sensor, GPS, and LCD display! While it had great features at a great price, I didn't like the image quality so I ended up returning it and opting for less features with better image quality. ( Cam only does 640x480 per lens.) Although realistically, something like this dual lens camera should work fine for the purpose, assuming for that price the thing holds up. Lots of feature for a pretty low price so who knows how long it would last.

I'm now "Whatthehex"instead of Alan2000. That was my original name here until I lost and could not find my old login info. If you feel adventurous, this site has some cables and info on extending the lens. http://www.chucklohr.com/808/extending/ I was thinking you could mount 2 units inside a rear view mirror with one lens facing forward and the other facing the rear. That would be very stealth. You would need 2 short lens extension cables to do it. With a little skill you could mount the circuit board so that the memory card slots are flush with the edge of the mirror to easily extract the memory cards. Would end up costing about $160 plus cost of mirror to do that. But it would take some work to do. Realistically I think I would just mount one on the front and one on the rear windshield as is. Because of the small size they don't really stick out much. I bought a small 4" LCD monitor for under $20 on eBay and also the video out cable for the dash-cam. I tried the monitor with a regular security cam and it worked okay. Still have not had a chance to try it with the dash cam. I noticed you mentioned putting LEDS in the rear of the vehicle to light up the area. They would have to be pretty powerful to be of much value. I have an IR illuminator for the yard that is about 6"x4" and it doesn't light up all that far, maybe about 25' usable range. I do wish this dash-cam was a little more sensitive at night. I think eventually they are adding a firmware update that will let you adjust video properties. Seems like the shutter speed could be slower to get better low light performance. Nevertheless, still okay for night use. If you just want a backup camera there are a lot for sale pretty cheap that are water resistant. If the rear is mainly just for vision backing up then a dedicated back up system where the video is only displayed, and not recorded, would he cheaper and much easier to install than modifying a dash cam for the rear.

i have to double check, i looked it over and it looked just like the foam i moved around on my 4mm, just bigger, no idea that was a plastic piece. So is the old style dome camera the one with the hard plastic insert?

So far I tried a system from Q-See, Swann, and Lorex and was not impressed with any of them. But in their defense, the kits were between $300 and $600 with 8 600 line cameras. In my quest for an inexpensive home system I've pretty much concluded you can't get a good system for cheap. All of the cameras were decent in the daytime. However, the Q-See system with the QM6006B camera had the sharpest image and best color of the bunch. However, at night they all were pretty bad. So I ordered a camera for $120 rated at 700 lines B&W and 600 lines color made by Empire Security - model ESC1-WDR2. I was not impressed in the day time with the more expensive camera. In fact, the colors looked washed out (no IR cut) and the Q-See camera looked better in the day. The more expensive camera also was not any sharper. I'm guessing because D1 is just pretty low resolution it doesn't matter after a certain point how sharp the camera is. But wow, what a difference at night. The Empire Security camera at night is not even using the IR LEDs with the lighting on the house. It has color video at night and the image is soooo much better that the other cameras in the kits. I posted on YouTube a video of the Empire and the the Q-See camera shot at midnight so other newbies like me can see the difference a camera makes at night! However, overall I am disappointed in the level of technology for consumer level DVR units. D1 is pretty crappy resolution and after you compress it the recording it even worse. So my recommendation is to buy an inexpensive system that has the minmum number of cameras you can get by with, and then buy a couple better quality cameras to supplement your system. Video in the day will still be crappy D1 resolution, but at night the more expensive camera makes a huge difference. Then throw it all away when HD systems become affordable. Video of Q-See camera at night: http://youtu.be/v8mo9HCAFR0 Video of Empire Security Camera at night: http://youtu.be/sKjzDYeel5Y

10 years ago I would say Woow Today I would ask you why did u bother to buy and install this ...... Because for $400 it should do an adequate job, and I'm not prepared to spend $2,000+ to get enough of a leap in quality to make me happy. The cameras positioned close to the cars and windows are okay for now. Sure, could be a lot better, but not in the budget for now to get a HD system, and I don't think even if I spent double what I did I would get that much more out of an analog system. But I'll readily admit I'm a newbie at this and this is my first shot at putting together a surveillance system in my house, so I'm no expert by a long shot. Just trying to help other newbies out there on a budget showing what the big box store kits can or can't do. (And to show that despite what is written on the kit boxes about great night time vision, they are not nearly as good at night as the one other camera I purchased.)

The video clips I provided were just to compare video quality of "big box sets" against what I would consider a mid priced analog camera. Cameras were pointed at ramdom with both in the same general view to compare color / sharpness, etc. I actually was planning to put the Empire camera under my mailbox on the sidewalk to see if it would capture the license plates of cars that go in and out of the cul-de-sac. I think it has the ability to block the headlights to possibly be able to read plates at night but I'm not too optimistic with the quality drop in video after compression. For the driveway I do have 2 cameras positioned up close. ; ) Have one on each side of the garage. I took a photo of my monitor with my cell phone showing one camera. Sorry, can't figure out how to get this darn DVR to take a snapshot of a video frame. I agree that POV is very important and the analog cameras if placed close to what you need to capture will do the job. Although even up close at night the LED range is a bit limiting. (My IR illuminator arrived today from China! : ) But no time to play with it yet to see how well it supplements the LEDs on the cameras.) Because of the limited resolution, and the need to have relatively tight shots to get enough detail, I agree that an 8 or 16 ch DVR is needed to cover the outside of a typical house. You just can't point a camera at a distance to cover a large area and capture anything that will serve to identify who did what other than to know at what time you got vandalized or robbed by a blob.

Sample Q-See QM6006B Camera Daytime Video: http://youtu.be/heRyFNA6JQA Sample Empire Security ESC1-WDR2 Camera Daytime Video http://youtu.be/evXry20MWZA

I think a big part of the problem is D1 being 720x480. That is just too low of a resolution to get any detail at a distance. So while you'll be able to see a crime take place, good luck being able to make out who it was unless it happended within 25' from the camera. One of the kits I tried had wide angle cameras which made the problem even worse as the image was that much fuzzier capturing a wider area. But there is a place for these cheap kits. For example, inside a small business or home they should be fine. But when you are trying to cover outdoors the problems are compounded. First the cheap cams are poor at handling light where the brightness is not consistent in the entire frame. And at D1 there simply isn't enough resolution to digitally zoom in the video and hope to have may detail from shots at a distance. But at $400 for a kit with 8 cameras you can't be too picky I guess. I was concerned about quality after reading how many of these big box store units seem to die early. Therefore, I decided to get mine from Costco as then you have a lifetime warranty! If the manufacturer doesn't want to replace a part that does bad, rip the entire kit off the walls and get a refund at Costco. If I had a larger budget I probably would have purchased a newer hybrid type DVR that accepts megapixel IP cameras. But the DVR alone was around $800. Then add 8 camaers at around $150 each and you're looking at about $2,000. In a few minutes I'll upload to YouTube some daytime video comparing the big box kit camera to the Empire camera. I'm not sure what settings the Empire camera should be set to so it may not be set to optimal settings. Not impressive in the daytime in the sense of being significantly better than the Q-See unit. I monkeyed around with the settings and improved the daytime color. But there is no comparison at night to the cheaper cameras and that is what I was shooting for with the Empire cam. For anyone considering the other kits at Costo, I'd say the QSee camera QM6006B had an image quality subjectively 15-20% better than the Lorex and Swann cameras I tried, both in terms of sharpness and color. It was also considerably better than the QSee 520 line "premium" camera QSC1352W that comes in the kit with the more expensive QT528 DVR. So in other words, the video you see in my posts of the QM6006B camera is about as good as it gets for the big box kit sets.

QC448 for now but I'm getting rid of it. (Not Internet friendly and crashed 3 different routers I tested with it after a few minutes being connected to them.)

Are you asking if it's what you see remotely over the Internet? I doubt a consumer level DVR will let you stream D1 in full real time resolution. CIF at 30FPS uncompressed uses about 36.5 Mbps. I think D1 is something like 146 Mbps. Most home Internet connections have about 1-5 Mbps upload speed. So even with the high level of compression of H.264, you may run into a bottleneck trying to upload your video at a quality level that is near what you see on your video monitor connected to the DVR. Then again, I just checked the bit rate on my QC448 and at 30FPS in D1 it is 4,096 Kbps (4.1 Mbps) so in theory with a fast Internet connection you could stream it. However, on my unit the extra stream for streaming video is only 256 Kbps. Therefore, the image is much more pixelated and not as sharp. However, it is still rather good when viewed on my phone or iPad. If you are wondering if D1 is as good as what you see on your monitor connected to the DVR I would say no but close. On my system the D1 I play back is not as sharp as what I see real time. I think what I see real time is before the encoding / compression and the image quality goes down once compressed. However, this will vary with DVR models depending on the quality of the encoding / compression used. You should not see any difference in image quality between a DVR at 7.5 FPS versus 30 FPS with all else being equal (quality of encoder, camera resolution, etc.) The FPS will only give you a smoother moving image. Each frame of the 7.5 FPS video should be just as sharp (or fuzzy) as each frame at 30 FPS. I like the smoothness of 30 FPS but for home surveillance I doubt one really needs more than 7.5 or 15 FPS. I think the camera quality is what is going to make or break the system. I'm returning my QC448 with 8 600 line cameras to Costco due to an issue with the QC448 units crashing routers. Will try next the QT528 that does D1 on all 8 channels at 30FPS that only comes with 4 cameras. I'd rather it come with only 4 and use the savings to go toward a few higher quality cameras.