MetalguitarJames

I know this as an old thread but oh well. We are using Daewoo LuComs 19" LCD monitors with a Pelco Analog Matrix and we don't get that type of screen. The video signals come up immediately. We also are using 3 42" LCD's and don't have that issue.

I've given up on telling people that I'm not part of security. LOL. That robbery has gotten our Gaming Commission paranoid as all hell. I'm actually leaving the surveillance department to become the IT Specialist for the casino. It pays more and I won't have to run as much cable!

I'm a surveillance tech with a tribal casino here in california. Once we get our new dvr system and virtual matrix in we were thinking about setting up 3 workstations that have our PC's, Pelco Keyboards, 2 LCD's, and 1 wall mounted 42" plasma screen per station. After doing some research it's become apparent that there are quite a bit of factors that need to be taken care of to make this work. The matrix will be: Pelco CM9760L-160X16 Matrix Terminating 160 In x 16 Out 120VAC w/ Loop Outs Pelco CM9760-KBD Keyboard Desktop 120VAC (Requires 1 per station) Pelco CM9760-DT4-X Matrix Data Translator RS-232-RS422 230 VAC. What I need is suggestions if it's better to stay with all LCD's or have 3 plasmas per station with 2 LCD's. Also what brand or model number of the Plasma's or LCD's. I've been reading into the Contrast Ratio's of the LCD's and also the response time. I know that some factors include the resolution of the cameras and monitors. We have a mixture of cameras here that include Honeywell KD6's, Honeywell KD-5's, Sony minidomes, and JVC stills. Our DVR's will most likely be Netvision 64 Channel 4CIF 30FPS 12TB DVR's through bulldogdigital.com . If there are any thoughts on how to make this work or what we should do in terms of monitors please let me know. I am pc savy. The cctv thing is new to me and I'm always learning new things. Any reading material would definately help. If you choose to want to send me an email you can at jmyers@sirgc.com Thank you all in advance, James Myers

Thanks for the info Rory! UPDATE.....System has been fully operational for a bit now and the video quality is excellent. The most frustrating downside is the remote client software for these DVR's. They are using the DS-4016HCSI Hikvision cards stacked to 64 channels. There is a small latency issue which doesn't effect us that much. The things that frustrates me is that the remote software doesn't have very good functionality during a remote search. We can't go to previous frames without having to go to the minute before and it won't let us back up video by times (i.e. 14:30-14:35). There is a start and stop button for saving video files. Anyone who has worked in a casino understands this frustration. Not only that but to be able to review video of say.......4 minutes ago has to be done on the actual dvr itself because the remote software has a one hour delay on it meaning we have to wait an hour to be able to access that data. Again, we can't have this road block. We have spoken with the vendor about this and they got us in touch with their vendor who they bought it from. I'm not going to name names here. I've uninstalled and reinstalled the updated dvr server software and remote client software numerous times and we still have the same issue. Although the main vendor of our software says that they are completely revamping both the server and remote software, if anyone knows of any better, more functional software that works with the DS-4016HCSI DVR cards, please let me know because it's too cumbersome with the current software. Thanks, James

Yes it was me Rory. We ended up finding 19" CCTV LCD's for $320 each so we alleviated that issue.

Well it turns out that the Honeywell Tech that my supervisor spoke with about the KD6 PTZ's that only had 4 dip switches only being able to do 2400 baud was wrong. We spoke with a more knowledgeable tech today and he told use that the cameras that only have the 4 dip switches will automatically adjust the baud rate accordingly to the Protocol chosen so we are in alot better shape right now! That makes everything easy! We daisy chained our CDU-T's into the CC1 and we can set every camera we have to a 4800 Baud rate, Pelco P protocol, and no parity. So much easier! No more headaches.

I'm sorry but I'm not able to post a picture of the finished surveillance room due to regulations. This picture I posted above was of course ok because it didn't show the way our equipment and monitors was set up. I wish that I could but I can't. I'm sorry.

Well over the past 3 days my supervisor and I installed the new surveillance system with the new CM9760 Matrix, Multiplexers, and New PC-Based DVR's. It was quite a chore but we will be completely finished today! It was insane! The people that originally installed the Honeywell System that we were changing over from ran entirely way too much cable under the floors. Not too much cable as in number of camera cables but I mean the extra length! I think the surveillance tech that was there before me didn't know what the hell he was doing. He didn't zip tie anything under the floors at all! We had the biggest rats nest that I never want to deal with again. We only have a little over 100 cameras but still.....it was done with laziness. Oh, and check this out. Our original Honewell system had the DVR's with looping outs right......well they had the outputs from there going to the matrix down through the hole in the floorboard in the first rack and up through another hole in the second rack. The cables were 30ft long each! Another thing that got to me is why in the hell would anyone put the camera cabling conduits in the middle of a freaking surveillance room?! Anyways. All we have to do now is regain PTZ control on certain cameras. It's interesting how reading further into manuals can save you so much headache in the long end. Apparently our Ultrak KD6's can do Pelco P and D protocols but there is a catch. Some of our KD6's have 4 dip switches and others have 8 dip switches. The ones with 4 dip switches can be changed to Pelco P or D protocol but the Pelco P protocol is supposed to be at a 4800 baud rate. The KD6's with the 4 dip switches can only do 2400 baud rate so we have to go back to every camera that has the 4 dip switches and change them to Pelco D protocol. Oh boy fun. At least we have 2 CDU's for the PTZ's and we can separate the ones with 2400 baud rate from the 4800 baud rate cameras. When we first installed the matrix and had everything up and running we had cameras 1-16 feeds coming up again on cameras 65-80. Turns out we had a loose VCC in the first slot in the matrix. That took forever to find out. Thankfully I just had a feeling and decided to try it. At least it's all done now. I did test some of the video quality from the DVR's and it's pretty damn good. Anyhow I figured I'd give an update. We will be installing the 42" LCD's in about a month or so. Here is a picture of a little rats nest that plagued us for a good 6 hours. I took it with my cell. James

It's the Netvision Software but many companies purchase the software and put their logo on it. But essentially it is the Netvision Software.

We actually purchased 2 dvr's with the HCSI cards. I will post updates as soon as we get our complete system up and running.

We just got a couple of 64 channel dvr's that are h.264. They use Hikvision cards. Aventura has them also. They are using a chenbro chassis with a large RAID array. I will post updates once we have the system up and running.

That's for sure. I figure at least $100k to add 100TB for our system, not including the additional electrical and cooling needed for 10+ RAIDs. We're using Infortrend 24-bay and 16-bay fibre/SATA units. By the way, I forgot to answer your question about monitors. I still believe that one-for-one CRTs give the best picture when using analog interlaced cameras. We are using JVC 21" monitors mounted in racks that are approximately 4-5 ft. away from the observers for the matrix and 19" hp LCDs for the DVR Viewstations. The problem is CRT monitors are getting harder to find and the quality has been dropping so next time we replace monitors, we may have to go with LCD. 16:9 seems to be becoming standard so we will be wasting part of the screen, though. That's one of our issues right now is that we don't have a very big surveillance room. It's only 19 ft long and 9 ft wide. We already have 16 CRT Monitors in a huge rack and our DVR's and Matrix are in the room here too. Ya, not to much space in here. So we took over the room next to us and have already started running new cables from the new system under the sub-flooring over to here. We are going to connect them together with barrel connectors. The reason why we went LCD was so we could have some room to do some work in here. We wanted to get rid of the 2 racks holding the DVR's, Server, KVM, and Matrix along with the Rack holding 16 CRT Monitors and have 3 separate desks with 3 19" LCD's on each desk (2 for each PC and one for Main CCTV Monitor use) and 3 42" LCD's. It hasn't been a fun ride because I'm the one supposed to find a good price on everything. I finally found a 17" LCD that has the BNC inputs on them for around $338.00 a piece from searching through google. Problem right now is that my supervisor thinks that we can make it work with the PC LCD monitors that we have. I really don't think that we can considering that every time you switch to another camera the LCD screen goes black for around 3.5 seconds. We can't have this especially when we are tracking someone. James

I doubt our commission will do anything unless it's an actual regulation. If 14 days turns into a regulation for drops and counts then we are going to have more issues than just our LCD screens. It means more $. James

While you are here Rory maybe you could stop me from going nuckin futs.

We are going to do a quad split on the 42" LCD's because 9 may be a bit much. We will get less latency with a quad split instead of a 9 split. Yes it was Bill that came and showed us the intellex system. Bill is a really great guy and was an excellent businessman. Out of all of the companies we got quotes from he treated us the best. It was just too darned expensive. The gaming commission expects a Mercedes at a Pinto price. If we would have went with any other company we would have had to do it in pieces meaning that I would have had to deal with surveillance operators not saving the video properly because they "didn't know how" and it would fall on me to save these incidents. We are getting ready to put in a 4 story Hotel and it'll be operational by Spring of 2008. Ever since the MICS required 30FPS and Front of house it has been a nightmare. We have too many budgetary issues to begin with. James

You just brightened my day. That was just freaking hilarious! I just hope he didn't breed.

I see what you mean now. The way this LCD is hooked up is coming from a bnc monitor output from a Matrix bay into the converter and into the LCD Monitor.

Was he using a converter also? If so what was the model # and place he got the converter? James

Hey Rory, Would you be able to find out where this person got their converter from and a model #? Is he using a regular PC LCD also? James

My nightmare is getting worse now. The only reason we got the multiplexers was because we wanted to be able to use 42" LCD Monitors and have a split up view. At first we were told to get "Multiviewers" and then they told us that we needed multiplexers because we needed MUX control from our keyboards. Yes we do have to meet the MICS requirements of 30FPS on all front of house cameras. This is rather frustrating because we got quotes from all different sorts of vendors and the biggest issue was the cost from each of them. Honeywell was the most expensive. Then came Vigilant, Nice, Reliable Security, Aventura, and this obscure company "Adtech" in that particular order. We aren't exactly a big casino. LOL. We only have around 230 machines. We actually flew out to their place of business to check them out. I've seen how they are built and they saved recordings and playback is pretty good quality. We aren't going to be actually recording the multiplexed image. With the loop outs it shouldn't effect the FPS. On live viewing through the matrix I have seen the FPS in action an it is a bit choppy but on the recorded image, I didn't see frame loss as you are describing because they weren't actually recording the multiplexed image. I went to the pelco training down in Clovis, CA and saw this first hand. We will not be recording the multiplexed image. We will only be recording the cameras themselves. The way the multiplexers work in this type of scenario is that you use the multiplexer main monitor out into the multiplexer server and out from the mux server into a camera input on the matrix. (We were told by pelco that we had to have a mux server if we had 8 mux's). We only do this so we can split up the screen on the 42" LCD's. We were prepared for the choppiness on the 42" LCD's for live viewing. I've tested the 19" LCD's and there isn't any choppiness with a single camera being displayed at a time. The only issue there is that it takes the monitor 3.5 seconds to pick up the image every time we switch to another camera. James P.S. we had the same issue with someone stealing meat from our outside freezer. What a coincidence!

That's correct rory. The way the current system is running the cameras run directly into Honeywell fusion dvr's and loops out of there into a Ultrak Max-1000 matrix switch. Our new system once we install it will go directly into the Pelco Multiplexers, loop out of there into the Pelco Matrix, loop out of the matrix into the PC-Based DVR's. BTW thank you for the rapid reply! James

Update! Well me and my supervisor have gone to the Pelco CM9760 Matrix Training. It was very informative on how how to actually run and program the matrix and keyboards. This is what we've got now. (2) 12 TB 64Channel DVR's with hot swappable 750GB Seagate HDD's. H.264 and 30FPS. (1) 8 TB 16 Channel DVR with hot swappable 750GB Seagate HDD's. H.264 and 30 FPS. DVR's can be found here: http://www.dvrsystems.net/howitsdone.htm (1) Pelco CM9760 Matrix 160x16 w/ loop outs. (3) CM9760-KBD (Keyboards) ( Pelco Genex 16 Channel Color Duplex Multiplexers (1) Pelco Genex Multiplexer Server (2) Pelco Code Distribution Units (For the PTZ's) Matrix equipment can be found here: http://www.pelco.com (3) 19" Acer LCD's (3) 42" LCD's (6) BNC to VGA converters (For LCD Monitors) Converters can be found here: http://www.q5usa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=STI%2DVGAC&cat=78&gclid=CMCypoa1rosCFQzDYgodiDqjUg I tested out a converter yesterday on our Current Ultrak Max-1000 Matrix, and sadly there is a big issue. It takes approximately 3.5 seconds for the picture to come up every time I switch to another camera on our keyboards (These are not PC keyboards. They are Ultrak Ultrakey keyboards for controlling PTZ's and calling up cameras on different monitors). I have it hooked up like this: RG-59 75 OHM BNC cable from monitor out from matrix into the bnc to vga converter vga cable to LCD monitor. It's just like the equivalent of changing the resolution on your PC LCD monitor and waiting for it to adjust. Now all of our cameras are just analog cameras. None of them are IP based. The converter puts out the image as a 640X480 resolution every time. The picture quality is great. It's just that every time I switch to a different camera (i.e. calling up a camera with the keyboard) the screen goes black for 3.5 seconds and then the picture comes up. I then tested this on a CRT monitor and it came up a little quicker. I'm wondering if there is anyway to program this monitor to just read 640X480 constantly to see if I can prevent a 3.5 second black screen from coming up between switching to different cameras. I can't accept a 3.5 second black screen. This will prevent us from properly being able to track people in our casino. If anyone has experience with this please let me know! You can also email me at jmyers@diamondmountaincasino.com Thanks in advance! James Myers

I'm a surveillance technician with a small casino in California. We have a new DVR System and Matrix on the way. Specifically the Pelco CM9760L 160x16 matrix. We are running into trouble because of our 42" LCD TV's we purchased. We wanted to be able to put a quad or more display on our LCD TV's. Well that part was covered with the Pelco "PMVC4" multiviewers. It takes 4 BNC inputs and outputs it through a DVI or a VGA connection. Well here's the problem. Our LCD TV's don't have the DVI connections right on the tv. They come with these "media" boxes. They have an HDMI connection on the media boxes. I wanted to see if a DVI into a HDMI cable would work. Specifically here are the TV's I'm talking about: http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/View_x42gv-Naga.htm#MediaBox Now here's the Multiviewer: http://www.pelco.com/products/default.aspx?id=530 Here are the cables I'm talking about: http://biz.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1643052&Tab=0&NoMapp=0 Also here is another question. We will have 4 remaining outputs from the Matrix and we wanted to use single 19" LCD TV's. Specifically these ones: http://biz.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1730207&CatId=385 The connection that we thought about using on it is an SVIDEO connection. I know what everyone is thinking. How are you going to get a BNC connection to turn into an SVIDEO connection right? Well here is a cable I found from an obscure website: http://www.svideo.com/svideo2bncmf.html Now if anyone has any help they can provide please feel free to email me also! The address is jmyers@sirgc.com .

Any takers on this? If not that's cool too. My supervisor and I will be attending Pelco training next week.

bump