aahpat

I am installing two AVTECH outdoor cameras that have two-conductor 12-volt power supplies. In the pigtail assembly of the cameras is a ground wire. The only instructions related to the ground wire tells how to reset the camera by splicing together the ground and reset wires. There is nothing in the literature about grounding these outdoor cameras. Email to the company achieved nothing Research tells me that I can ignore the ground wire if I 1. plug the converters into a surge protector, 2. have the cameras on a non conductive assembly to the wall like plastic electrical junction boxes and conduit and 3. put three wire to two wire plug adapters on the two 12-volt converters. Does this make any sense? Thanks

The insufficient grounding is not a given. Nor is it a $20 project. I won't touch the service which means hiring a certified someone just to diagnose and then remedy the ground status. Adding that to an already too expensive project. My grounding to the existing water and heating system, as has been the case throughout the history of the house without a problem, is unacceptable by your standards so I have literally nothing to ground my already expensive camera project to. the house has existing systems grounded to water or heater in the past ten years by local licensed installers of different comm and electric utilities. Participants on an electricians BB seemed to prefer water pipe grounding as long as there was no plastic added into the circuit. That an urban water system is the biggest dissipating circuit you can attach to. So, while I appreciate agree with the thrust of your concerns, I can't blowout my budget. So I will connect to the same things that installers and electricians already use in this instance, the water and heating system. Thanks for all of the input.

Thanks for responding Tom. My plan then is to ignore the camera ground but put a 16g ground wire from the outdoor camera base to the water pipes in the basement, that have all of the grounding in the house as I can identify it. It will be good to get this done with. KISS, my modus operandi. This anti delinquent project is not working out that way. Thanks again for the input Tom.

OK. Its a simple wire ground issue. But the only solutions I see is to hire an engineer, rebuild my home from the foundation up and start wearing a copper hat. Thanks folks. I am a lot more confused now than I was when I came here.

Westom: Perspective. The building is more than 110 yrs. old and never been hit. My concern stems generally from mounting any electrical thing high on an outdoor wall. I can't identify the service ground. Te boxes are on a wall and the ground must be behind it. There are several existing comm systems grounded to both water lines and the boiler pipes. Everything that I have defined seems to violate your standards in one way or another so I am totally perplexed for the moment.

Soundy: I basically share your points about the uselessness of these wires. Its why I have so many doubts. The company manual is so brief on the grounding topic that I am intentionally going overboard to be sure I understand enough of what I am doing. This documentation issue is disappointing since the cameras, otherwise, are excellent machines. I'll feel a lot better when they are up and running. Thanks again for the input on this.

Wow. Lots to work with. The closest ground for the cases of the two units will be basement water lines at each end of the house. Ground lines from the unit to ground will be well under 20' each. But I can't get them any shorter unless I use the heating system instead of water lines. I am sorry about not giving you meter readings. It has been decades since I've used a VOM for any but the most rudimentary uses and would probably give you get numbers. After researching the DSL surge protectors that you reference the Siemens unit seems the most effective for the price. I found it here: http://www.dale-electric.com/products/view/TPSTEL for $28.10. I'll use this unit at and in between the data switch for the cameras in basement and the modem. So my plan now is to ignore the camera ground wire. Use the 16-g to ground the case. Run it inside the conduit with the DSL and 12-v to the basement and clamped it to a water line. Thanks again Weston. You've given me a treatise of material to work with on the topic.

Soundy: While I would dearly love to take your advice I live in an area that has electrical storms powerful enough to knockout the sub station a quarter mile away on a regular basis. All of our local utility companies are aggressively incompetent and can't be relied upon. I need to design in every precaution I can find. Thanks. Pat

Hi Weston: Sorry I haven't been more detailed. I have sent a note to the tech about establishing what the ground connection is within the camera. The Ethernet connection is RJ-45's on both cameras. The 12-v. power converter connects to a banana jack coming out of the camera. And then there are two (maybe) 22-gauge wires. One red, one brown. Brown is marked 'ground'. Red is marked 'reset'. The two cameras are to be installed halfway up on a, on a heavily exposed to weather, red brick two story wall with a lot of cable service wires on poles just a few foot away. The cabling running to the basement in conduit. (I will add to this note when I get a reply from the AVtech. guy about the ground.) _-_---_ FOLLOWUP Here is my note to the AVTech this morning. It is followed by his reply in bold. I am assuming that it means that the brown ground wire needs only to be attached to one of the base bracket anchor screws. My query: "I now have an electrician advising me on camera installation and he needs to know what the brown ground wire is connected to inside the cameras." The AVTech reply: "I cannot tell you what the brown cable is for since most camera have different type of wiring. If you open the camera you voided you warranty since it those not required you to open the camera for installation. My recommendation was to the chassis of the camera on the base bracket it did not required touching the camera cables since the only thing you are giving ground is to the whole metal chassis of the camera." _-_---_ The AVTech followed up with this second note today: "Check you recent purchase I notice you are talking about IP Cameras, The cables are to reset the camera it those not required you to connect then to anything unless you desire to reset your camera, you will join both cables. Please take a look at your manual it will indicate the same" Manual for AVN362: http://www.securitycameradistributor.com/v/vspfiles/downloads/products/AVN362_manual.pdf The vague reference to grounding is on page 2. ( I sure would like to find out that I am over-thinking this issue but i just do not want to burn down my home if I can avoid it.)

Weston: Thanks for responding. Less articulately, those are concerns that have been causing me doubts and preventing me from moving forward. Except that I haven't been considering the connection within the camera. There is a very small gauge braid marked GROUND and another marked RESET. Together they reset the camera software. Also, the company tech responded to my query about this with a vague suggestion to ground the unit to its screws. My query to the tech: "I am preparing instalation for the 362 and 262 cameras and have one slight confusion. The ground wire. Sine the power converters are not grounded I am assuming that I will need to run a ground wire for each unit. Is this correct? Or is the power supply meant to float without a ground? I would not want to do that unless you say so." The tech's reply: "It all depend on the type of installation, if the camera are in a high place of a building then it will be idea to ground the base of the camera. No hole or drilling will be needed. Just a cable going from the base bracket installation to the ground wire running to the bottom of the build for ground." My solution, (thus far), is the precautions that I have already planned at the power strip. (I never considered the limitations of the strips as you presented them. Neat. And scary.) PLUS, I am making a copper bus to screw onto the highest screw on the camera base to the PVC box that I will then solder the small camera wire to and screw down on the bus a 16-g solid copper wire that will run through the conduit with the DSL and low power lines to the basement and the closest water pipe ground clamp. (The camera base and body are some non-ferrous metal.) Thank you again Weston. Pat

Great! Thanks for the second set of eyeballs. I am assuming that any surge that gets past the surge protector strip will burn everything else near it anyway. But I am not schooled on the limits and nuances of this neutral wire grounding for an outdoor application.