rory

to be fair ... though i dont know why as im sure the CNB would blow away that ebay camera anyway .. but the CNB has light in the picture, the ebay one doesnt (by the looks of it anyway) Also that ebay cam is just a color IR .. but that is still one awful image for even a color IR

Honestly I try not to use the Avtechs anymore .. the video quality is not that great .. but its a cheap unit .. you get what you pay for. If we are going to spend time on something its more like Geovision or something like it which has better quality recorded video and more features. Im sure in many instances with the AvTech and similar DVRs, the clients just give the cops the entire DVR and buy another, its so cheap anyway

Ive installed tons of Ademco Wireless Alarm Systems over the past decade or so .. from small homes to huge concrete mansions .. they work well. Their Wireless motions have a battery save mode, so cuts down on that in areas with heavy traffic. But we would use wired motions where ever possible anyway as they are typically better, such as the rokonet ones, infact if it can be done with wired that is always best. I dont do as much alarms anymore, but i still maintain a client with 2 separate alarm systems and about 40 wireless zones plus a dozen or so hardwired, on each panel. One thing I do have to say about it though, the lithium batteries are not cheap! I've hooked up their wireless transmitters to just about everything, from windows, doors, optex beams, garage doors (eg with overhead door switch), etc .. in places where we still used hardwired devices, just using the tx to send it back to the panel. Ive used some Visonic Powermax in the past also and they were decent, had Wireless repeaters and also wireless sirens, which Ademco did not, but not sure if I can recommend them right now.

Ok so you made me do it .. I took out my hard drive from the Avtech and placed it in my PC ... with Windows XP SP2 .. Windows wants to initialize it but ofcourse we cancel that .. In Windows Disk management it sees it but sees it as unknown and no partitions. So I tried a couple other steps .. I made a bootable DOS jump drive and booted to that, then used AEFDISK ... that reads alot of various file systems and partition tables, even NTFS within DOS .. nada .. it sees the disk but sees no partitions, it was unknown partition type. Now granted that is not a new program, but it does handle alot of partition types, it is obviously missing the AvTech one: http://www.bahamassecurity.com/aefparts.txt So I then booted back into Windows and tried something called UFS explorer .. it also sees the disk but sees it as an invalid partition. In Windows and using DriveSnapshot, that also sees it as invalid. Ive even been able to read Mac partitions using DriveSnapshot, though as an unknown file system it has to backup every sector so that was a no go. So I dont know what kind of partition they are using ... that would be the first step. However, contrary what the member posted in that other thread, I placed the hard drive back into the Avtech DVR and it came back up as normal, and I can still playback video from earlier, no damage was done to it at all.

the 484's are not low light cameras .. they are Day Night but they are only 0.06 lux in BW. Compared to Exview Day Nights which can be 0.01 lux or less. Im not sure how well the Monalisa is in low light yet, there has been no comparison to Exview done yet that I could find. One has to recognize that most Day Night cameras over the past few years have not been low light, especially since DSS came out and when not using the DSS feature, and in comparison to exview cameras - they were typically just Super HAD. I will be testing that Monalisa Dome soon enough though, and will compare it with other types of day night cameras I will have here, even BW exview, then post results here (note, I never use DSS). Also the 484 is a WDR camera. So, 2 different cameras for different applications. if you are to compare the 484 it should be with the CNB V1167NVF/V2167NVF or VBB-34VF.

Windows should not touch the file system, unless the user manually did something to it or has some other 3rd party automated drive software. It just wouldnt come up as a valid drive, at least it would be seen in disk management but perhaps an unknown file system format. AvTech DVRs are mostly purchased by budget clients so in they would not normaly want to spend the money for the labour involved to do a whole lot with it.

Scorpion any idea of the OS they use? Im sure they would be using a free real time or embedded OS ... maybe even some form of linux .. either way there are alot of them out there and if one knew the exact one, could perhaps load the ISO in virtual box and connect to that hard drive. I can try it using the HDD from my AvTech, but not until middle of next week when I can afford to have the DVR down for some time.

Looks like the diff is the VCM can be surface OR flush mounted while the VBM is just surface mount only.

try it with IE 6 then .. http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE just check the box for IE 6.

Well the wall mount bracket could just be something else to buy or can be broken .. But the wall mount bracket could also give you more of a view which sometimes you cant get in some locations if just surface mounted to the wall or high up on the side of a building. For example you might not be able to turn the camera the entire way to view down on a gate entrance .. with the wall mount you may be able to .. also it could be more cosmetic. As for the punch out not sure as never used that exact camera, but many have on this forum.

Its okay As for the google thing .. the links are mostly axis based systems .. The difference betweens those and your is simple. the Axis cameras you find on google are already on the web .. basically there is a list or page on another webpage/site somewhere that has a link to that IP. With Avtech there is not, typically .. unless maybe you choose to use their DDNS service .. if it exists (ive never tried). In fact I hardly use their DVR anyway, its just a freebee 2nd hand DVR and I will change it the first chance I get for something with good quality video. So yes I can find hundreds infact thousands of Axis demos online to test .. but they all have put them on a webpage somewhere (knowingly or not) whose link is somewhere that google and other search engines can index, in fact there is a webpage (i think) linked from Axis that you can goto to view the sites based on the DDNS names, sort of like a demo for their cameras, if not from them there are other external sites that list them, all that are indexed by search engines (eg. http://www.123-cam.com). In other words, they are not private, the user in almost all cases realizes they can be accessed by anyone. Actually using Axis Mjpeg most dont even need a user or password. For another example, GeoVision DVRs have its own DDNS service as well .. one can also locate tons of Geo DVRs through google or other means, diff is that Geo DVRs normally have a user and password. I understand though this still does not answer the issue at hand

Since i am located in the Bahamas AND I am a Bahamian, I feel obligated to respond .. and I also have a cheap Avtech DVR. Also i am in no way saying we dont have a criminal society here .. cause lord knows we do .. sadly .. but In this case I think it is outside of our realm. 1st off .. is this from the DVR itself or the network software? As far as the IP stuff goes .. yes there is a company here by that name but it is small time, some off shore hosting thing been around for a few years. As far as I know it is Canadians or Americans that own it, check the domain owners name for that site, it is NOT a Bahamian name. If they were infact hosting something illegal though I am certain our authorities would be interested, but I dont think it is that. Now, I looked up that IP you posted and indeed one site (nwtools.com) does say it is located in the Bahamas, however the actual domain name they have linked to the IP is medialogik.com, which upon further checking is located in Barbados .. far away from my country. Typically our IPs in this country are 206.xxx or 24.xxx etc now, Avtech is based out of Taiwan but many companies INCLUDING some of the big US brands do have distributor hubs in Barbados (not Bahamas), so that could be why you are seeing something out of that area. I dealt with Extreme CCTV for years, for example, a Canadian company that made high end Infrared Products, you might know as Derwent on the UK side, and they had a hub in Barbados. Other then that I dont know ... Please let us know if you find anything else out.

No .. it is straight forward .. couple screws and good to go. But for the same or even less $$ you can get the VBM-24VF which is vandal resistant and outdoor (IP66). http://www.cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=1077

Depends, if it is a small business then first stay away from wireless, it may work but that is MAY and it is not cheap no matter what wireless you use. Standard would be some higher res maybe varifocal on the registers depending on what you want to see or hidden cameras if you dont want them to know they are there, perhaps a mic over the register area for audio.. some wide angle general cameras (with IR if you want to see in the dark) to cover the store, perhaps a high res varifocal to cover the entrance, if pointed at the entrance may need a WDR camera, or using a cheap camera point it inwards not looking at the door to avoid backlighting problems .. cover your isles, shelves, etc. Indoor domes are fine in most cases. If you have a warehouse area could use IR but dont need to be cosmetic so could use IR bullets, vandal domes with or add IR if you are worried about them being damaged/moved, could just use IR cams at either end and normal color down each isle. BTW certain areas you could get away with low res if on a tight budget, such as shelving areas, general shots of the store, even the register if you already have the camera zoomed in right on it. Outdoor would benefit alot more with high res, and ofcourse the store entrance. there is no "right" system, every application is different, also depends what YOU want. Additionally no one brand has ONE single camera or system to cover it. Get a DVR that suits your needs, there will never be an all in one system that has cameras and a DVR that does what you need. When choosing a DVR also note its capabilities for evidence sharing, as well thats one of the most important things with CCTV, and one of the most common things missing from budget 4 channel DVRs. If you have issues sharing the video with the cops or courts, in many cases then whats the point. Sometimes I get calls from people asking how to back up video from a DVR I have never used, they are doing this some 2 years after it was installed, they use it every day, but not once tried to backup video .. I am like WTF?? And remember no matter what you install, the criminal could come in with a mask .. or even take the DVR with them! An additional fake system can help in some cases

Some budget stand alone DVRs perhaps .. not all though, and definately not most PC based DVRs today. With most PC based you can just select the source size for the video (eg. 640x480, 720x480), then set the record size (eg. 320x240, 640x480, 720x480) Most cases in NTSC they will do 720x480, unless they are clones, which is common for DVR cards out of China, still stuck on 640x480. I understand with standalones it can be a little more sketchy, where they claim D1, 4CIF, or CIF in the settings, it can really be anything unless you investigate the video as you mentioned. But still, 6fps was 5-10 years ago, nowadays 15fps+ per channel is the norm, even more with live video, hardware compression cards, or using smart motion recording ... BTW taking a screen shot from the networked video will only give you what they set the activeX / video window to .. has nothing to do with what the video is actually streamed at; eg. I can set an upload stream at 720x480 but set the download video size to 320x240, if you capture that window using screenshot you only get 320x240, but if you were to reset that video size to 720x480, you would get, 720x480, ofcourse compressed as all DVRs do. Also, many DVRs are dual stream, in fact i try to stay away from those that are not .. meaning the network video is seperate from the live and recorded video.. unfortunately many budget 4 channel DVRs are not dual stream and changing the video quality settings on the DVR affect the networked video as well.

I know someone that has used the Geo Ip cameras but I dont know them that well .. in fact they are the ones Ive had to clean up a couple jobs on .. mostly bad BNC and power supply connections .. they no longer do any CCTV by the way .. so not sure if I can ask them or not. . they own another business where the Geo's are located .. guess I could always walk in and ask them whats up .. I would rather get info from people that are in the biz though and have maybe used the Geos and other IP cameras .. as the extra per channel for say an Arcont, Axis, or Acti is not that much .. but seeing as it is Geo it would make sense to keep it the same, just in case .. takes 1-3 weeks just to get the product down here so if it didnt work then .. arghh. Well as long as their cameras are any good ofcourse .. they arent that cheap! Specs look good but then we know how that goes ...

Are they any good? Got a client with Geo systems just wants to add a couple cameras, was considering them as there is no extra dongle or per channel cost needed and can use the existing system, which is already maxed out on the DVR card. Its just for a car park with good lighting at night.

I guess for the mounting location it will have to be the box cameras in a housing .. not sure whether I would need the Day night or just the color at this point .. i think they have large car park lights though so its lit up really well, current color only cctv cameras work fine there is so much light, but they are on the sides of the building. Using the Geos will mean be able to use one of the existing DVRs, and as far as I know should be able to use Geo IP cameras at no extra expense, I think. They have 3 x 16 channel Geo DVRs in Dell Towers .. taking up alot of room in their racks (not me!), along with other computers .. so they want to cut down on what they add there. I actually could fit a 4U rack DVR in there ... but this might still be a better solution since it is only maybe 4 cameras for now. Right now I dont know whether it is a cheaper solution though .. as it is right now I have to get them some good power supplies and redo the mess that is there already, and redo ALL the connectors .. they come off when you just knock them .. its a nightmare, gives twist ons a bad name LOL .. really they were just never put on properly .. some dont even have any braid just a long long center. Maybe for this nightmare I might actually go compression One thing I do notice is the Geo's claim 1.3 Megapixel but its only 700TVL .. I thought that should be 1280x1024?

stuff like Q-See and Aposonic would probably be some of the cheapest you will find in most places in the US .. I even saw one on newegg in the mid 2 digit price range .. well its not there anymore I got an email from a chinese manufacturer one time (i get at least one a day now from different ones) and they were selling me 20x DVRs for $89 ... but I had to buy in the 1000's. Anyway, so it really depends where you live, if you are in China you could probably find a $5 DVR Other then that, AvTech DVRs are known to be very cheap and are also sold all over the US. They are crappy video if you ask me but they never crash and can take a beating. I know where to get a better 4 channel at the same cost but its only dealer cost so cant post that here!

what about Geovision .. not traditional NVR but has NVR feature.

What cameras are they? Model, type?

understood ..

No offense intended but the Lynx is a piece of garbage, we installed them for a while when they first came out but over the years switched them out for better systems. Especially the first lot without a rechargable battery, but even with all the problems we had with the second generation, never installed them again. An alternative to that and much better as well as less expensive is the Powermax from Visonic. If I had a choice I would never use Ademco (cough Honeywell) again but thats all they use down here, and the regular systems do work well .. but their downloader software (16 bit) just makes me sad to know such a large company like that cant develop something for this century.

CNB, KT&C, brands like that ... have some decent products for the normal applications. But the most important thing is picking a camera that will work in the lighting you have .. or add lighting as needed. Flood lights will at least help but also watch they dont produce too much glare to see the persons face. If your concern is nighttime more then day time, then dont get the cheaper cameras .. get the more expensive ones from those brands which tend to handle light and glare better. if you are working on a tight budget then you could forget Panasonic and IP cameras .. CNB has some IR bullets that have what they call Intelligent IR .. just another marketing thing but they do claim to work a little better then the old ones (though personally I havent used it yet). They also have an inexpensive vandal true day night dome .. no IR but you could add IR separate if needed, it is also a low light camera though, the monalisa version. if you want to get a better shot of the crooks then would need at least 2 cameras, if not using Megapixel, one zoomed in more to the road, the other closer. Also make sure its recording at the least 640x480 not CIF and on the lowest compression (eg. larger file size, not fastest video), and make sure the camera you pick has at least 811x508 pixels (if its 420TVL then it wont be). if you are on a REALLY tight budget like me, just get a couple BW bullets, exview if you can find it, 420TVL sees in even less light but if you are adding light or IR then can get the 600TVL for better clarity, no color in the day but they work in low light and are cheap. Or get 1 BW and 1 Color .. either way thats for the low budget. You could even find a cheap used or even bad IR camera and only use the IR part of it, thats what I did as I got 2 old IR cameras for free and just used their IR LOL.

Motion lighting as mentioned. I wouldnt use outdoor motion sensors for the alarm though, too much chance of false alarms (monitoring companies will cut you off quick), go beams if anything, check optex for those. Well you could use outdoor motions, but just be forwarned, they tend to false alot more then beams do, also depends on where they are installed. And Voice Alert which sawbones posted, looks like a good alternative to tying it into your main alarm.