rory

Eclipse does have some decent products, in fact their cheap color bullets still blow away ALL other manufacturers in the industry in the color bullet category for image quality and colors, for the cost or not, Ive used them for years - the only problem i have with them is they are only 1/4" - their light handling sucks too but so do all cheap cameras. The rest of their stuff is pretty much like all other Taiwan products out there. I really dont use their other products, though have in the past, but I wont say they are good or bad. Their Domes that came with the Panasonic CCD were a big mistake IMO, that chip had issues with Geovision cards - same problem as with the Sony HQ1, black borders around image, and if with Geo then would have had same issue with other DVRs. Ive used many vandal domes and it really doesnt matter, for example the Extreme CCTV vandal domes we tested, after mashing it with a sledge hammer, ok it wont break through, but its still damaged enough that one cannot see anything anyway - so much for trying to stop a vandal, they just blind the camera and it is useless. Apart from the RMA which is useless to us in this country, I agree, I wont recommend anything unless its tested. Actually its the total available pixels that matter. If you check the specs in many cases 480 and 520TVL cameras will be the same, though 480 spec is not listed anymore much these days anyway. However that said, there is not such a huge diff between most 380 and 520TVL cameras these days, not so much that is the end of the world if a client can only afford a cheap color dome as opposed to the higher resolution one - its not like going up to megapixel quality - while it can easily be a diff of $100+ retail which adds up in the final cost - remember there are ALOT of poor people in the world that CANNOT afford certain things, and they have to make do with what they can. Ofcourse i still recommend the higher resolution. Agreed, CNB, KT&C, brands like that who are the actual manufacturers, short of going Bosch and Panasonic or Extreme. And yes definitely, one gets what they pay for.

Well for full features and still budget you could look at a PC DVR like building a GeoVision system, 4 channel, GV-600-4. Just need a basic Intel PC, anything like a 945 chipset with at least a P4 will do - celleron is pushing it with their latest software. Software comes with the card and you get all the features. Since you mentioned you have PC experience this could be your best bet for that side of it. They sell IR Remotes for them also. Just be sure you use a reputable store as there are many clones out there, software version that comes with it should be up to date (eg. 8.2 / 8.3) Another option is a 4 channel stand alone, ive used the Avermedia 1304NET in the past, its not as cheap as say the Avtech but it has an IR Remote and the live and remote video quality is much better than the AvTech and others - but it might run you out of the budget. For a real budget there is the AvTech, and there will be other brands in that price range also. Cameras? Really depends where you will buy these from, if you want to get the DVR and cameras from the same place, then you will need to get what they sell. I would recommend something basic to keep the cost down and since you have motion lighting you wont really need IR. Decent day night cameras with IR will cost you, the cheap ones, which some call Day Night, are just Color IR and wont have a IR cut filter, so the color will be washed out. Definately make sure whatever camera it is, CCD, Sony, 1/3", lens around 4mm. Look for CNB for Day Night IR bullets, Color and Day Night Domes, etc, KT&C for the basic color bullets. First decide on the DVR as that will determine what money you will have left for the cameras, wire, power supplies, connectors etc. Oh yes, best to get a distributed FUSED power supply if you can. Thats a single box which powers all the cameras, each output is fused. A cheap one for cheap cameras is fine, heck myself I just use at my home a 2Amp plug in transformer and have my 4 bullets spliced into that, hey it works and its cheap - 1 power supply goes though, all cameras go down. If doing for a client I wont recommend this though, i go individually fused unless they REALLY cant afford it. Cable, RG59 Siamese is best but whatever you can afford. Coax keep at least 1' away from high voltage, thinner cat5 (with baluns) or all in one RCA cables keep least 2' away. thats all i got right now. Sorry I cant suggest a retailer as per the rules but you could check out the advertisers, or a member could PM you regarding this topic if they are so inclined. if you find something you like, and want to post it here so we can check it out, please post the manufacturer info or text only instead of the store link, thanks. Rory

so its going to be very slow video, for it to work in low light?

I dont know of any actual recognized cctv certification. There was something starting up a while back but didn't hear any more of it. Plus it would be limited to country of certification. There are a couple online things out there but nothing worth talking about.

Everyone can have links in their signature. Suky is a little over obvious as to his intentions, but it has been discussed with the admin already.

all links to online stores are removed as per the forum rules: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3147

No the DN lens doesnt make it a day night camera. The lens just helps with focus shift between day and night, as any camera would have with a varifocal lens, fixed lens no problem. Before day night lenses, we would have to focus for 10%+- focus shift, even if using aspherical lens which would normally be better. You would be able to adjust the Iris level on the camera.

just buy a 13" TV and forget about the PC LCD, you save some money and the live quality will be much better. On cheap Composite to VGA converters the quality is Horrible.

Err. Cant say dealer prices here, it retails for over $200 though. As for lenses, look for the fujinon lens, the dealer sites I buy from dont sell dealer prices to end users though.

If its a wide open area with very little reflective objects in the FOV definitely you will want a separate powerful IR source, possibly 2. I would suggest something like the Extreme CCTV UF500 to flood the area. You can get it in different beam widths such as 10, 30, 60 degrees as well as different filters. The greater the filter though the shorter the distance, so if you can stick with at least 800nm range. I havent used it in a couple years and the bulbs do require changing every couple years as its hallogen, but they work. There is also the UF600 and maybe even newer models, check Bosch's website as they own the company now. All cameras are different, so check the specs good and if you want to go 900 range make sure it specifically says it supports that. I cant speak for IP cameras though. Lower you mount the IR the better but keep above objects obviously. I have withdrawn from using IR over the past year and dont use it unless I must, if you do, wear shades and protect your eyes regardless of how powerful the IR is, my eyes have not been the same after years of adjusting IR in the field, no actual damage per say, but definite strong painful sensitivity to light now. Use visible lighting wherever you can, as you will also get a better image. Invisible IR is also very dangerous, especially with the powerul IRs. I used the 940nm UF500, that was kind of scary, also you loose ALOT of IR distance. You can up the power some more to help but then you burn more power. Diagram for example distances and widths: UF500 is rated for approx 490'. Have to stay at least 3' away from it or it can physically burn you. Example with dual 10 degree 830nm UF500s and True Day Night Box Camera. i single 10 degree UF500 - note the beam pointed at the ground Example of 100' IR rated camera with 30 degree beam (Ex82) Solarized: Example of 830nm UF100 IR Bulb with 60 degree beam Solarized and True Day Night Box Camera: ^how dark that area is without IR/direct IR: more:

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6122

Looks like thats a discontinued model as its not on CNB's website, or they just dont have it listed. I found it on a dealer site though, thats a color only though, the Day Night model is the NF, though this might be the digital day night model, perhaps wont pick up IR, depends if it has a fixed cut filter, if not IR cut then color could be washed out. Digital day night is just a cheap way to fake it as a day night, not as good as a True Day Night which costs more. Specs I found arent really useful, the lux levels are misleading, but it does say DSS and SDNR. Im not a fan of DSS myself but some people like it for a cheaper method to see more in low light with SuperHad chips - you get slower video though. It does have BLC & AGC on or off switches. Also it doesnt come with a lens (typically) as its a box camera, you need to provide them separately. So essentially its one of CNB's budget box cameras, though the price itself is not that budget (the price you got it for is not even dealer price, maybe second hand). the NF True Day Night model is only about $10 more at my distributor's site. Cheaper then the brand names though like Bosch etc. But yes should be better then the average color bullet. Glad you like it thats what is most important.

Coax cable is stronger and better IMO, especially without additional adapters and connectors. But in some cases UTP must be used.

lower the f stop the more it can compensate for low light levels, so if you want to see in lower light, and the camera is capable of it, then go at least f 1.2 or as I have done with exview in the past f 0.95. Camera should have the specs and show which f stop they are rated at. Eg. 0.1 Lux @ f1.2. Doesnt mean thats the lowest it can go, go with a F0.95 lens and it may be even better. Typically you should be fine with a standard F 1.2 lens. If you get varifocal get a day night, just so less worries bout focus shifts, or a fixed lens but then that cant be adjusted. You can easily find something like a Day Night 2.5-10mm AI Varifocal lens with f 1.2, like Fujinon. Longer zoom varifocals normally have higher f stops and the low light sensitivity decreases. Whichever lens you get, still focus it under low light, not full light or pitch dark, just lower lighting, for best image quality.

well you just said one camera per household, not plus recorder portable DVD recorder ... some say it works great .. get the chinese to mass produce them at $5 a piece Dont forget though there is still one major flaw with IP .. the household must have an existing network .. not all do .. and what might be cheap there, could be three or four times the cost elsewhere but i have wifi so i look forward to the software ... and my free IP / webcam ps. cud also run the linux in virtual PC in an existing XP install, so no need for the extra computer. Also how bout open source XP software, mac users can then use it in parallels also, while browsing facebook and testing out the latest viruses and trojans.

Wait for him to reply, he should see this over the weekend. he likes to reply alot

might want to check the following link, its the website of a member here known as scorpion, and has alot of software for AvTech DVRs. http://scorpiontheater.com/cpcamtechsupport.aspx

im an Extreme CCTV fan when it comes to IR ps. dont mind the price thats retail in the bahamas a few years ago!

true dat ... dos wud be good .. now bout the 1 camera per household .. wudent it be cheaper with a $5 chinese bullet camera and the household's TV A/V input?

i edited post with links for you. What monitor is that on, and how is the system setup? Any extended cables for the camera connections, or any VGA extenders, etc? Are all cameras the same brand and voltage? How about NTSC and PAL selections, are they correct?

Instead of repeating alot thats already been said here before, ill direct you to some older threads regarding exview. But simply put its like Superhad is just a standard camera, while Exview is low light. For example, I need BW Exview in night clubs as regular BW (or superhad) is not low light enough in some areas, and we dont want IR or any additional light. They have different lux levels. The more expensive cameras like pro box cams will offer better backlighting, cheap bullets hardly ever will. You will want to try get that camera as far away from the light as possible, sometimes if you get it right in the center it will be okay, or even off to the edge a bit. All cameras are different so depends on the manufacturer, not the chip necessarily, though there are various Exview chips as well, and they range in price which then vary in quality and available features for the manufacturers. http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=106355&highlight=exview#106355 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=103871&highlight=exview#103871 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=79878&highlight=exview#79878 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11439&highlight=exview http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=75284&highlight=exview#75284 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=76747&highlight=exview#76747 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=67747&highlight=exview#67747 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=67710&highlight=exview#67710 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=66976&highlight=exview#66976

Superhad does not compare to Exview, totally different, exview sees much more in low light, but will pixelise in near pitch dark, however it will see something, and only requires a very little bit of light to see clear. KT&C bullet cameras for exview bullet cameras, BW bullets, and mini cube cameras. CNB for Day Night IR Bullets, Color and Day Night Domes. They wont send us samples either .. Sun is out almost every day here and havent had any problems yet. Sun can damage the iris/len though if looking at it direct for many years, only lost 1 camera lens from direct sunlight and it was 6 or so years later.

run XP in a virtual PC (parellels?) Or pick a DVR that has java, javascript push, or flash, for viewing in a browser.

No prob. Im working on a way to dectect if its 8.3 or other, so it uses a different activeX control. Problem is the 8.3 seems to take over from the older one, in the registry etc, also if you run the 8.3 to connect to an older system it will cause all kinds of errors. The older one doesnt work with 8.3 though (unless im just missing a codec, but i dont think so). I really need some 8.3 test sites though, as I have no DVRs here running 8.3, no need to upgrade as they work great with 8.12.

It might be the type of lighting at the location. I had the same problem before. Switched to a different model camera and it was fine. The lighting problem is actually what the manufacturer told me about, seen it on various cheap cameras since then, all under indoor florescent lighting. Are these 12VDC cameras, and the dome 24VAC? You might need to just use those elsewhere, and get some different cameras altogether for that location. As mentioned cheap cameras can show all kinds of problems, cheap power boards maybe. If there are other cameras at the location, different models, then maybe try and isolate these smokes from them, try them on their own power supply.