rory

You mentioned it includes this? http://www.pelco.com/products/default.aspx?id=226 If so, that also includes Video Amplification.

Looks like you lose alot of Color and Luminance?

Altronix is only about $30 more than the OEM PSUs. Get individual fuses, etc, and a small box. Otherwise he could just buy a 2amp Transformer from a local electronic store ($10) and splice all the cameras into that .. From experience though, its not a good idea to go cheap on the PSU.

Check out Altronix, much better.

Well I'm not answering anymore, it is clear the user does not deal with nor have any interest in CCTV and that it is going to just keep going off topic more and more, so I don't have the time. Will monitor the thread to make sure it stays on topic though and no store links are posted.

Budget DVR, may as well forget the remote video as the quality is horrid, but you get what you pay for, least it has remote video

It is from Taiwan I imagine, check out http://www.eclipsecctv.com, better yet, just take a look at the image I posted, it is clearly much better than most IP cameras. I also use and have used many expensive brand name cameras over the years, I specialize in Extreme CCTV Long Range Day Night IR Applications actually. Also used Sanyo and GE for years, both major players in the Surveillance World. In Fact GE Had Broadband Remote Video before many others. Silly me, I was just using the model number you provided. Well if you want a D-Link (Jokes) camera go right ahead. We are discussing an IP camera (CIF and VGA) vs a $50 CCTV camera, if you want to discuss systems I would simply give you links to other previous discussions we have had on this topic. GeoVision is not OEM. I think you are misunderstanding everything here, this entire industry actually, I deal with IP every single day, I get more down and dirty with IP than anyone that installs IP cameras does, every day of the week, and with .. DVRs!! So that is yet another myth that should be placed on the back burner for now, cause it makes no sense. Im NOT in the USA. If you were in the CCTV Industry you would know exactly what I am talking about. Linksys wireless is fine for basic room to room (I have a Linksys Cable Modem and Linksys Wireless Router sitting in front of me). If your home is made from cardboard sure it would work great, but in a country where we build using quality concrete and steel, those little toys are useless to the video industry for any worthwhile wireless. I provided the specs direct from the Linksys web site, it is clear as day that it is only 320x240, whether or not you care to believe that, it does not matter. Linksys is fine for Network Routers, Modems, etc, but NOT FOR SURVEILLANCE - they make inferior DIY products. Either way, the bottom line is this - now read and understand please - it still cost more than the $50 CCTV camera!! I did not provide anything to be questioned, I provided facts. You can question all day long but the facts will remain the same. Must be a language barrier. Must be a language barrier. Sure many cameras can be bought with IR, but no IP camera for $50, and yes you can get a CCTV OEM camera for $50 with IR. Obviously you have not tried any real DVRs yet, please get back to us when you have actually been IN the CCTV industry. Search the forum, I am not on this thread to teach you how to build Servers, DVRs, or anything else. THAT IS THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD SIR. Ive been in the CCTV Industry long enough to remember using VHS tapes. But that doesnt have anything to do with the price of tea in china, or the cost diff between a more expensive IP camera and a Cheaper $50 CCTV camera. Yes, they are very clear. Everyone that knows the first thing about the Surveillance Industry and anything about Networking, will know even the most basic limitations associated with IP Systems. Here we go with the Remote View again .. that just brought the cost up to $30 a month, that is now $360 for the year plus the cost of the camera, electricity etc. .. and wait if its Cable Internet then crap they gotta pay for the Tv also, another $30 a month .. oh wait you like businesses .. okay thats $150 a month instead of $30 a month so .. wow thats one heck of an expensive camera dude. WOW, you cant be serious? LOL News Flash, DVRs have been doing that for years, and anyone in the Industry also knows what an IP is capable of .. nothing new, in fact that is kids play. Im sorry I cannot keep up this discussion, it is as mentioned, like talking to a brick wall, simple facts are being presented to the user who has no knowledge of the CCTV industry at all, and yet they turn around and start talking about something totally different ... anyway, perhaps someone else can join in and discuss with him and play teacher, I have work to do and millions to make. Please keep it on topic

Which camera, the OEM $50 bullet camera? You can buy that under many names, in this case it is the Eclipse ECL-596. No additional hardware needed, no network, no PC. InCorrect: http://www.dlink.com/products/resource.asp?pid=142&rid=552&sec=0 Up to 30fps at 160x120 Up to 30fps at 320x240 You would need multiple Systems but we are not discussing that here - THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC. Either way, the DVR will still come out considerably cheaper. Sorry no store links are allowed here, but please do check out the GeoVision GV250 for further information, or even the GV600. It is their entry level card, but it utilizes the full software. Im not in the USA, but in ghetto communities anywhere in the world, there is very little internet connection due to the monthly costs incurred. I am happy you live in a wealthy country though First, we are not talking about Wireless, but to match the wireless capability of that camera, not a whole lot! Ofcourse I know Linksys, they are great for network routers, modems, etc, but not for a Surveillance Camera. Here are the real specs on that camera also, perhaps they changed them for your country? http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1134691947479&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper "The advanced MPEG-4 video compression produces a high-quality, high-framerate, up to 320x240 video stream." "Image Sensor CMOS Lens Fixed Focus Resolution 320x240, 160x128" Also if you check out the reviews of this camera on lets say, New Egg, you will find that its quality is very degraded, it is a very basic $5 camera, whoops, $100 IP camera. 1 -There is not such a thing as ANALOG. 2 - Please forget Remote Video, I did not ask that, home users like to watch it right at home on their TV (but yes you can simply add a webserver to the camera if you wanted it remote). 3 - None of the cameras you suggested have BNC. Ok then. 1-Tibet? Never heard of it. 2-Yes, Axis is DIY 3-I build my own servers. Please, HOME USER, HOME USER, HOME USER. I actually dont need any DVR Card, I can just plug it into the TV! If they run out of cameras, then they can simply add another card, in many cases it is the same cost as paying for all those additional IP channels. But ofcourse, we are not here to dicuss Systems, just the camera. Someone has been really pounding you with myths and misconceptions, please enter the CCTV industry from the start and use regular CCTV to see what it is like first. There is not such thing as ANALOG SYSTEM and the Limitations of IP systems are very clear. You also need computer for your IP camera, and you need a network I dont need a Computer for the CCTV Camera, only need it if I want to record to a hard drive. Everything else you listed is not unique to IP Cameras, and in most cases, UNLESS IT IS MEGAPIXEL, the quality from highly compressed IP cameras is much worse. You need to install a network, and networks have their own limitations/requirmements/stability problems. So you say you use cheap Network switches? The switch is just something else to go wrong, plus the cable is flimsy. No idea what you mean. Actually it is the other way around. These days you will find most CCTV techs know networking INSIDE AND OUT, and that IP Camera resellers have little to no knowledge of the CCTV or Surveillance industry - and that is actually why IP Cameras are taking so long to get where they need to be, that is why they are still rarely ever used in the real world - Megapixel is what WILL take them to the next level though. I mean really, networking is so simple, kids are out there installing and maintaining networks. Now CCTV on the other hand, that takes years of experience. I have tried all the free IP software out there and they are rubbish. The DVR Card is cheap, the company that sells the card is actually a software developer and that is what they charge for, yes, you pay for the software and the card in a single price. The Difference is that if you were to ever use a Real DVR System you would understand completely what I am even discusssing here, no Driver Issues, full featured software that blows (most) IP only software apps away - Remember, software developers that make the DVR apps also know IP inside and out, and so do I. But right now I feel like I am still talking to a wall.

Cat5 should not make a difference (hopefully you are using baluns or TX/RX's though). They look very low end though, that would be my only concern, Have fun

You need to find out what the Spectral Response is, at that will matter when it comes to IR. Also not all cameras are as sensitive to IR as others.

Welcome to the forum Wayne.

Welcome TheGrub!

Welcome to the forum Mike.

Ok true, well hopefully their teeth are as dull as my cutters

Yes it looks really decent: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11457

First I want to say .. dont take any of this to heart .. its still just opinions and from different user experiences from different parts of the world - I commend you for using Cameras for Surveillance - CCTV or IP - either way. Also I really dont want to argue IP vs CCTV cameras as that has been done already here, but will just reply to the questions as best I can right now So, now down to business That camera: DCS-2000 is 320x240 Resolution, the Camera I posted is 510x492. Its a cheap D Link camera basically. No, I have not used it, and I don't plan to. It is CMOS and 2.5 Lux, I require at least 1 lux or better yet 0.5 which comes with the basic $50 color cameras; 0.1 lux with the BW cameras. DVRs comes with Full Featured Software (depends on the brand ofcourse) and those are the ones I use - eg. GeoVision. Im sorry, but that example of an IP camera does not Cut it, I have seen better for a little more money. Thats like buying a $5 CCTV camera, just does not work for us. Now to answer the questions. A CCTV camera itself does not, but you dont need it unless you want to record. The software comes with the card, whether it is a 2 channel or a 32 channel or a 64 channel card, same software. You can just plug that Camera into the TV, infact you can use an existing VCR if you have one collecting dust somewhere. Or just get a budget DVR card from a good name brand, and you are good to go. Once again, you dont need it unless you need Remote Video. In that case yes you need either a DVR card or a Video Server. In fact a Video Server and the CCTV camera could come out to be cheaper depending on the model, actually who needs that, I can buy a Stand Alone DVR with Network for $100 these days. The CCTV camera will work regardless of computer or network anyway, it just works, it will not crash, needs no firmware, no bugs to work out and we are using RG59 Coax instead of flimsy cat5 (well thats a cable topic for another day). Thats alot more than the $50 camera hey Actually thats going for $195 on Amazon. Best to stick with the Axis, that Linksys one is very low res. Ok so first you need a PC (many home users just want to view the camera on their TV to see who is outside, no recording even in many cases, so being restricted in needing the PC is going to be a pain), then from there you have to run another wire from the Video out on the graphics card (if the PC even has one, as many just have on board video, otherwise you will need to buy an additional card for that which TV out), which is typically S-Video, so you then need an S-Video to RCA converter (some $20 for that) then run that out to the TV .. lots of work IMO. Sure though, anything is possible. Cheap CCTV camera with IR, Hmmm .. $35. BW Cameras that can see in little to no light and still great quality, $50. If you would like snapshots, let me know, I have many I have tested tons of them. I dont use them in the field as none have what I need. In fact the only place I see them useful is for MegaPixel, but that is not the topic of this discussion and I would not use Axis or D-Link for that. I would like to know more about the actual brand of DVRs you have used also, to make this whole discussion valid. Saying they had a Conexant chip doesn't tell us anything, there are many generic cards with those and no software to run them, or whatever 3rd party software that is recommended for them - in no way does that type of software compare to a professional DVR software app - eg. GeoVision, Video Insight, etc. In the case of the Geo you can get the GV250 or GV600 for little cost and you still get the full featured Geo software included. Price is still much higher, not as much as in the past, but the quality to price ratio is still significant, not to mention requiring a network to run it, which in itself brings new issues into the equation. Are we on the same page here? We were not discussing MegaPixel Cameras, just VGA and CIF IP cameras to be specific, going by the low price requirements. I have seen many MegaPixel Cameras, in fact I have one sitting right in front of me. You are correct, there is not such as thing as Analog systems, in fact there have not been any analog systems for many years now. So you buy the card you require. If you are a pro in the industry you will have some idea of how many cameras you will require or how many you think you may add in the future, thats all part of the quotation, and specking the system out properly. Add another card if needed, or just use a couple StandAlone DVRs. And thats only if you want to record it, otherwise just plug them into your TV or a cheap quad or mux. There are many limitations with IP based Surveillance systems and it has been talked about already on the forum. Requires a Network for starters, to view the cameras you require a Computer, and a search will bring up the threads with all the other issues related to those, and also those related to CCTV systems, DVRs, cameras, etc. Nothing is without limitations and nothing is future proof - nothing is 100%. $50 CCTV camera, $100 DVR card, got full featured software and a great image, no network issues unless you really need remote video. 510x492 Image Pixels or pay an extra $30 for the 811x508 Pixels. Plug and play, use a BNC T Connector with a cheap BNC-RCA Adaptor and plug it into your TV - its a done deal and its cheap. Dont get me wrong, if there was something out there worth using, I would, I am sure many of the pros would, It just isn't there quite yet, at least not on the cheap. Either way there will always be the network requirement, and unfortunately with cheap applications (eg. the Ghetto) many clients will never have that. To end, I'm not even endorsing the cheap budget CCTV cameras, I would recommend getting something better, for a bit more, but one can only buy what they can afford (I would love to have Extreme CCTV cameras all over my place here but ..). There are high res versions and even the real pro cameras, you get what you pay for, same with the IP cameras. If you want a Webcam or Cheap Bullet camera then that is what you will pay for. And Regardless of the camera, software is still key. Also for additional clarity on this topic, I am not discussing MegaPixel Cameras!!

Well I would hope the Receiver is NVT also, otherwise surprised once again to see the 4 work at all! NVT is a good brand. Yes, for now just double it and see what happens. Try one camera first, in fact triple it if you can. Should be using 18AWG for power really. Thing is, if the cameras are powered up and not getting enough amps they will eventually die. If in doubt, buy some lamp cord cable and just run that for the power. Otherwise they sell RG59 Siamese CCTV Cable at Sure Alarms.

First, we were talking about WebCams, not IP cameras. Not without an additional housing, or an IP camera that is built for outdoors and then it will cost more. Please name the software, as you will typically not get any kind of software that comes remotely close to the software you will get with a DVR card, bar paying $75-150 per camera. Please name this new remarkable cheap Webcam. Also please name any cheap IP cameras that can do that. Fair enough, but we were not talking about IP cameras, we were talking about WebCams which typically use USB. Really? Please name this remarkable cheap IP camera that can plug into the TV (without additional hardware). Ofcourse we WERE talking about WebCams though, not IP cameras. The $50 webcam? Outdoor IP Camera? Also, please name the remarkable webcam that can do this. In fact, please name the cheap IP camera that can do this. For IP cameras, fair enough, as they are charging enough for it. $50 webcams have 2 year warranty also? Fair Enough, they have some cheap KINAMAX IR Webcams, but they are rather useless for surveillance purposes, 6 small IRs out to maybe 3-5 feet, Terrible image Quality, Washed out colors (same with cheap CCTV cameras though). And as for the IP camera, please name this remarkable cheap IP camera that comes in BW and or with IR - BW is the key here. Okay, fair enough with IP software, BUT, if you see what comes with WebCams you already know it comes with basic Single view software, and the free ones out there for Webcams are, well, horrid. For $50? Ofcourse not, $150. The point is though, even with an IP camera, to get software that comes close to the one that comes with the DVR card (at no extra charge), for IP cameras, you must pay $75-150 per camera. Otherwise please name other software you know of that comes with this remarkable cheap IP or Webcam that you believe can match the DVR software. I guess I should have asked, have you used any DVRs before, and if so, which ones? Really, I just want to know about this Webcam and software, cause I wanna get one! My Software requirements are pretty simple: -Minimize, Maximize and Full Screen -Full Screen or Minimized on Start -Multiple User Accounts with individual privileges -Motion Detection Recording -Masking/Unmasking of Video areas -Individual Settings per camera -Pre and Post record to RAM -Record to AVI -Various Compression: at least Mpeg4, optional H.264 for remote video only -Stable Drivers and Easy to Install -24/7 Stable Software -Audio recording -Live, Record, Remote Video, and Playback at the same time -Multiple Views in Live and Playback -Portable Playback Application for CD/DVD/USB Drive -SDK availability always preferred Those are all I typically use, might have forgotten to mention one or two but that should give you the jist of what I like in my Surveillance software. Thanks!

No no you misunderstood, we are talking about WebCams, not IP cameras. Webcams use USB typically and are horrible CMOS. Unless you spend for some very good software the ones that come with them are less than adequate for any kind pf surveillance. Also, how can that Webcam have better frame rates than my REAL TIME MOTION Video $50 camera?

Ok was just checking as when using IR cameras doubt it would be able to power them beyond 50', at least that was the case when at one time someone I know tried IR Cameras on Cat5, even doubled up it had problems when the IR came on at night as it then went from 500ma to 1A. Best to use 18AWG cable, but since its not there right now, you could try to just double up the remaining pairs, should be 2 pairs left? Im actually surprised they are getting the distance with the other cameras you mentioned using 12VDC on that cable (180'?). 330ma is pretty low though, so may work if you just double it up. Disconnect the baluns though and reconnect them also, just to be sure, if you haven't already done so. Lastly, what is the brand of the Passive Receiver and Baluns?

$50, not pounds Ive never seen a $10 webcam either, perhaps some cheap CMOS ones though available from Kmart 1-Can you put that webcam outside? (without additional expense - and no looking through a window is useless) 2-Can it be connected to a DVR card (or NVR software) with full featured software, motion detection, various compression methods, etc etc etc, and for what cost? 3-Can it see anything at night? (never seen a cheap webcam that could see much of anything under low light) 4-How far can you run the cable for that webcam (USB extenders?) and how much is that cable. 5-Can you plug that Webcam into your TV for viewing in your living room? 6-Whats the lifespan on that webcam, 24 hours a day. 7-Whats the max and min temp ratings on that webcam? 8-Whats the warranty on that $10 webcam? 9-Can you get that Webcam in BW or with IR? 10-Can you add more cameras and view them in a quad view? (this goes back to the software issue)

Hi Gian, Im not an expert in the cat5 field, but what type of Cameras are they, also what are the Cameras Power Consumption and distances? Also is the power run using the cat5 cable, and if so is it a single pair or multiple?

Im with you on that, which one will the rat bite through quicker .. thats the question

Since it is an OEM (no name) from Asia DVR, you would need to contact either the main Rep for it in your area, or perhaps one of the resellers. You could also try taking the Power Supply out and carrying it to some local computer stores to see if they have anything that will match.

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