shimokita

Greetings. New member here. By way of introduction…I have just joined this forum as it was popping-up in several searches when mining for information. I am an Asia-based engineer. I trained with GPO Telephones, now British Telecom - (we trained at Bletchley Park, which was owned by the GPO back then). I worked as an sound engineer in several London studios, before re-locating to Asia 20-odd years ago. I migrated into installing A/V systems into pubs, clubs and bars, etc. I recently installed a audio-visual system in a resort hotel and the client asked if I could install a security camera system throughout the ground floor of the hotel. This would be my first attempt at cctv work, and after hitting the books and taking the clients instructions, I came up with the following design. I guess there are some glaring mistakes and I would be grateful if the more experienced members would critique it for me. A picture paints a 1000 words, and I think I have included all the relevant equipment, cable lengths, etc., there. Suffice to say, it's all indoor, over one floor. The bar gets packed at night. Reception open 24/7. Areas of concern - client wants to views cams remotely on Macs, iPad - possible? In the Brasserie, I'm planning one CAT5 pair to power each cam. Is that problematic current/voltage-drop-wise? I'm grateful for any other tip and guidance. Cheers.

Thanks both for your replies. The client hasn't given me a budget ceiling, but asked for a quote. Hybrid would be a mix of IP (MP) and analogue? I've rejigged the bar map, taking on-board Justincameras thoughts and also pondered a IP network camera version - see attached. I will consult with my supplier regarding the actual cameras; lenses, etc., but am thinking a name brand, bearing in mind the following points: *Outside facing - with WDR *Client asked for all IR cams, but I'm thinking just #6 & #10 should be enough...thinking to keep costs down *Perhaps #3, #4, #5 & #7 could be higher pixel-count as they are covering a wider area? Question: Do I need anything on the NVR end of the 8-way PoE switch CAT cable, or can I plug it into just one RJ connector and the NVR will sort out all the IP addys? Thanks very much. shimo.

Hi, Thanks for your thoughts. The client has asked me just to quote for the moment, although I don't believe he's asking around for other quotes (He's way out in the sticks). I'm hoping to get somes plans and figures to him by the end of this week. He seems pretty keen to get going. This is not a money-no-object job - part of the interesting challenge for me is to get a cost-effective but high quality solution. The cameras you linked to look excellent, I can see what you mean about why you've never used them budget-wise! Cheers for now. shimokita

I met with the client yesterday, and he was rushing about between his properties, so it was a little difficult to clearly ascertain his priorities (burglary, staff theft, bar-room fights, etc), I did manage to put together the following plans. Cut into 3 segments for easy viewing I'm mainly thinking about camera positions and resolutions at the moment. CAM 1 Client request. Directly above cash register. Cash register in in an alcove, so only directly above image possible, I doubt this camera is of any benefit, as register is placed quite low down and staff are leaning over it to see. Back of head shots only! Client's request…will have to confirm. He didn't seem that interested in a text inserter. Could mount it on the wall lower down. CAM 2 To provide behind bar action and view of people entering bar area via kitchen back door. Kitchen does have any stock or value items, so no camera required. CAM 3 & 5 Are meant to provide overall coverage of customer area in case anything kicks off here. Frontage and door 1 are pretty-much all glass so should be no problems with backlight when door opens. There are cabinets above the bar hatch preventing installing any further back. Both could be replaced by central 360 deg MP camera? CAM 4 Provides general view of restaurant and closer view of people coming into bar via door 2. CAM 6 Should provide close-up view of people entering via door 1 and also some limited outside action (frontage is glass). CAM 7 provides general view of restaurant. Restaurant is quiet, breakfast buffet and evening dinners. CAM 8, 9 & 10 cove the entrance and lobby, reception areas. All areas drop plasterboard ceiling. At the moment leaning towards network cameras with IR capability and an NVR. No fluorescent lighting, TV's in monitoring area. Advise about positioning dome/bullet and camera resolution gratefully received. Thanks! chazawa.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. Actually, the 2 cam balun I'm thinking would be passive - the power is for the cameras (bad drawing!). A 24VAC supply is a good idea - less current down the UTP and less interference. Can you recommend any good 24VAC cameras? Cat6 here is only marginally more expensive than CAT5e, so will definately take that on board. The bar cameras I think I'll use active baluns, since there is going to be a dedicated supply up in the void anyway. If I use actives, do they have to be active at both ends, or can you mix 'n' match active & passives? Thanks again. I appreciate it. shimokita. Here is a good primer on baluns and distance calcs. http://www.muxlab.com/assets/files/application_guides/VE_CCTV_Balun.pdf I have no idea what camera to use for several reasons. I have not seen the environment you want to record, I don't know what you have access to to obtain cameras. I will suggest get wide dynamic range cameras so they can be adjusted to low or difficult lighting. You can mix active and passive baluns and there is great debate over which to make the active balun. My opinion is at the camera. The camera transmits the signal, the balun amplifies it. It is transmitted over wiring to the DVR. If you use an active recieving balun, anything that could degrade the signal after being transmitted is amplified including noise. Have you looked at IP cameras? Megapixel cameras? What do you want to see? Do you want a general view of a big area with no capability of forensic video? Do you want video of each register and see every transaction? Do you want to see the transactions from the registers printed on the screen with the video? That is called, POS, point of sale. If you upgrade to megapixel, you will have to upgrade your DVR too. Lots of questions to answer if you don't want to throw money away on a system. I will help you design this for no monetary compensation if you trust me. I just need some answers to these and a lot more. Thank you for your reply and kind offer. I sincerely apologise for my late response. I will be seeing my client late next week and will glean some more information from him. As I mentioned I am a complete noob at this, but your advise put me in the right direction as to the kind of stuff I need to ascertain. So, I will report back. Again, I apologise for my late reply. shimo.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. Actually, the 2 cam balun I'm thinking would be passive - the power is for the cameras (bad drawing!). A 24VAC supply is a good idea - less current down the UTP and less interference. Can you recommend any good 24VAC cameras? Cat6 here is only marginally more expensive than CAT5e, so will definately take that on board. The bar cameras I think I'll use active baluns, since there is going to be a dedicated supply up in the void anyway. If I use actives, do they have to be active at both ends, or can you mix 'n' match active & passives? Thanks again. I appreciate it. shimokita.