DrSurveillance

I chose to put this post in the IP Camera section because I plan on installing mostly IP cameras for customers. I have been doing hundreds of hours of research over the past few weeks/months about surveillance camera equipment. Obviously analog was a breeze to learn, and digital took much longer. I have a bachelors degree in IT, so it wasn't too difficult for me to absorb. I still don't consider myself an "expert", but I am able to answer most questions people have about surveillance without any hesitation. There really aren't many professional surveillance camera installers in my area. In fact, I spent a few hours trying to find one in my area, and came up with nothing. I have heard of one or two guys going door to door handing out flyers for camera installation, but they are just working out of the trunk of their cars. I see this as an opportunity to start my own business. I have the funds necessary to get all of the equipment I'll need, including a van. I figure I will purchase a few different types of cameras to show clients, but only purchase the cameras which will be installed AFTER they sign the contract. I will purchase cameras online by sourcing the best price (which has a valid warranty included). After a while, if business picks up, I will hopefully be able to purchase large amounts of equipment at wholesale prices. I plan on focusing mostly on residential homes, but will also do small businesses. I have noticed that almost all small businesses around here have outdated analog systems. I assume back when the systems were installed several years ago, IP systems were way out of their price range - so they were stuck with analog. Now that the overall prices for IP systems are much more affordable, I will attempt to talk the small business owners into upgrading. Now for the questions: - Is it feasible to require the client to pay (either in full, or partially) BEFORE I complete the job? This would allow me to purchase the camera setup using the client's funds rather than my own funds. Or will most clients only agree to pay after the job is complete? - About how often will I receive installation jobs for clients? Yes, I know, this is a very difficult question to answer. I'm just looking for a very general idea of what I should expect. A few a week, a few a month, a few a year? As with any business starting out, I know at first it will probably be quite slow, and pick up as my name gets out there. I am located in between two fairly large cities (one with a high crime rate but low income, and one with a low crime rate but high income). - What kind of profit margin should I expect? When I first started doing my research, I was expecting around $300-500 total profit on an average 4 camera system. But after doing research, it seems a lot of people are actually earning $500+ profit per camera - so a 4 camera system would earn around $2,000 total profit. Is that true? That's much more than I was expecting, but I won't complain if that truly is the average profit - Do you have any advice/recommendations for me? What kind of problems did you run into when you started out? Anything you can tell me would be helpful, no matter how small. I would REALLY appreciate it. Thank you in advance!

That's one thing I haven't figured out yet. If business does pick up to the point where I cannot handle it all by myself (and I would love for that to happen), it won't be easy to find somebody that has the qualifications needed to be good at installing cameras. I have a feeling I will have to train somebody for quite a while, and then when they finally go out on their own - they will have a problem and have to call me to come take care of it. Kind of defeats the purpose of having an employee if I have to go to the job site anyway. So that may be an issue. I tried to find an installer in my area that I could work for. I wasn't able to find any installers nearby, besides individuals working out of the trunk of their car. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I can honestly say the answer to each one of those questions is yes. I have a bachelors degree in Computer Security & Networking, and I have worked as a carpenter for a few years. I also consider myself to be very good at dealing with people. That's why I think this is perfect for me.

Yeah, I kind of figured residential clients will be a pain to work with. They want top dollar systems for bottom dollar prices. I plan on showing them exactly what they will get BEFORE I install anything - the physical cameras themselves, the resolution of the cameras (both day and night), the possible functions, etc. That way, hopefully they won't have any expectations that weren't met. I'd much rather have the client tell me they don't want the system because it doesn't meet their expectations BEFORE I install it. I'd rather walk away with no sale at all than walk away with an unsatisfied client. I would focus mostly on businesses, but I think residential homes will be a better starting point. A business usually has very specific requirements, and if those requirements aren't met it could mean a substantial loss to the business (for example, theft). Residential clients will most likely just say "I want to monitor this area here, here, here and here". Plus I will be doing this by myself (for now).

I guess AutoZone wasn't a very good example since they're known for selling a lot of cheap junk in stores. But, I have experience with this particular Q-see product - and I consider it to be good quality & reliable, especially for the price. I understand what you're trying to say though - a lot of the systems at places like Costco are junk (almost all of them actually). In fact, the only system I consider decent quality from Costco is the Q-see 4ch IP setup. They had a Swann 1080p HD-SDI setup that was very nice too, but it's no longer available. But again, I don't plan on dealing with only pre-packaged systems. I just have a feeling that's all most residential clients will be able to afford/want/need. If I do install a pre-packaged system, it will ONLY be a system that I know is reliable. And I know you're not trying to beat me up, I appreciate your help. "It is hard to fathom but there will be times where NOT selling a system to somebody will be the best move." Not sure what you mean by that though? Can you explain? Do you mean it may not be worth the headache to deal with certain clients/installs?

I'm not quite sure why it would be too much of an issue if a client walked by and saw the camera system that they had installed sitting on the shelf. Just because it's for sale on a shelf, doesn't mean it's poor quality. Like the example I mentioned in my last post about the mechanic - if I'm walking through AutoZone (a car parts store in the USA), and I see a part on the shelf that the mechanic just installed in my car... I'm not going to think "wow, that must be junk". Although maybe I'm wrong. You probably have more experience than me on this subject. Also, I should mention, I do not plan on only installing pre-packaged systems. I have the knowledge to design a system completely from scratch. But since I plan on starting out with mostly residential homes (compared to businesses), most clients will not be able to afford $4,000+ for a surveillance system. But if they are able to afford that, excellent.

100s try to start a cctv buisness every year and close within 6 months. you will have a problem selling $300 systems .......as they have faults or just dont work. and as you as installer those problems for first 12 months are yours. you cant make money installing cheap systems buying systems from costco also will not make your money ......if they know costco price there not going to pay more I totally agree with you. Cheap systems are not the way to go. I will explain that to my clients. I will only install systems that I have experience with (or have read A LOT about), and that I know are reliable. The last thing I want to do is install a bottom-dollar system and have to revisit the location to fix problems on a regular basis. However, I don't completely agree with you about not being able to make money installing systems from somewhere like Costco (or anywhere that has prices to camera systems available to the public). I'm not selling camera systems, I'm selling the installation of camera systems. Yes, I'll be the one purchasing the system, but that's not what I'll be making a profit on. Just like a mechanic - they purchase the car parts needed, but they really only make a profit on the installation. People will pay a professional to perform a task that they do not have the knowledge/time/ability/tools to perform themselves. I personally have never paid a mechanic a dime in my entire life - because I have the knowledge/time/ability/tools to do it myself. However, I know MANY people that won't even attempt to repair a vehicle when something breaks - they go straight to a mechanic - and they pay an arm and a leg for it. I know a camera installer and a mechanic are two entirely different professions, but it's the same principle.

Curious what the analog and IP camera brand/models of OUTDOOR cameras you would be using in this scenario considering your statement in the last part of the sentence. Also would not be a fair comparison unless the demo showed night and day lighting. I'll give an example. A typical 4 camera analog system will cost around $300-400 (not including installation) for a decent outdoor setup. Some are cheaper, some are more expensive - but that is the price for an all-around decent analog setup. Now for a decent outdoor IP setup, I really like the Q-see (Dahua) 4ch 1.3MP system. It's definitely not the BEST system out there, but in my opinion it is very good - especially for the money. I have installed this system twice; for a relative and a neighbor. They were both VERY happy with the overall setup & price. My neighbor has had the system installed for about five months. Right now it is 15 degrees (F) outside - no issues. In fact, last night we were just hit with "snow storm Nemo" - they never stopped working. However, the night picture is not the greatest. The IR illumination does not cast very far on these cameras. My neighbor wanted to be able to see most of his back yard at night. So I added an external IR illuminator ($50) for the camera in the back yard. It has the power to light up his entire back yard. The total setup cost less than $800. In my opinion, the IP system is WELL worth the extra $400-500. Four times the quality for twice the price. Now, if the client wants more than 4 cameras, then that setup is not an option. It will start to become much more expensive for an IP setup.

Yeah, I definitely do not plan on quitting my day job anytime soon. I know it will start out slowly. Hopefully it starts to pick up over time. I don't necessarily plan on specializing in IP systems. I will also install analog systems if that's what the client wants. But I will try to (gently) push the client towards an IP system, if they can afford it. I consider analog systems outdated technology; and I will explain that to the client. If I were to put myself in the client's shoes, and the installer showed me the difference between an analog camera and a 1.3MP camera, I would definitely choose to have the 1.3MP cameras installed (as long as there wasn't an enormous price difference). I predict that 9 out of 10 clients that want a surveillance system for a residential home will know next to nothing about surveillance. So if I explain the advantages of IP over analog, I think some of them will choose to pay extra for IP. But then again, I know many people just want a decent surveillance system for the lowest price possible - which will be analog. I think I will (try to) charge a 50% deposit on all installations. If a client throws a fit, I'll just make an exception for them. I would really like to get into the alarm system and home automation business, but unfortunately 7 years of experience is needed before one can get a license in my state. Fortunately, CCTV installation doesn't require a license in my state. I guess the only way to answer any of my questions is to just find out by trying it myself. I really appreciate everybody's input though. If anybody has anything else to add, I'm interested in what you have to say.

I have been doing a TON of research, but I have not been able to find the answer to one question. Is it possible to to constantly record several MP cameras at once if they are all 3MP+ each? I know it is more common to only record when motion is detected, but I am aiming for constant recording. And yes, I know some massive hard drives will be required. A gigabit switch will be used. Lets say I have six 3MP cameras, and two 5MP cameras. Is constant recording (and viewing) of all eight cameras (at full resolution & between 10-15fps) possible if a sufficient standalone/dedicated NVR is used? If it is possible, would something like an i7 quad core 3.4 Ghz processor be sufficient? Any information that can lead me down the correct path would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Do you mean 40TB would be required for one 4MP camera recording 24/7 for 14 days? If so, I think your calculations are a bit off (although maybe MY calculations are off). From my calculations, you would only need about 1-2TB for 14 days of 24/7 recording at 10fps for one 4MP camera (using H.264).

Ohhh I didn't realize motion recording is actually more CPU intensive than continuous recording. But now that I think about it, that makes sense. Sheesh. I should have asked this question days ago. It would have saved me from hours and hours of unsuccessful research. That calculator is very helpful. Thank you very much.