cctv_down_under

i would like to make one point very clear.. my opinions are only that Opinions...I have no proof that Ge actually do this or any other major player.. however it is common knowledge that this is a common procedure and although I may have looked like I was pointing my finger at GE I was not!! I was purely observing a common trend by several large corporate companies that I know of, it is wise for each installer/Importer to research all thier products and to find out exactly what is availiable in the market. Personally I find the GE gear to be more than adequate and most consumers should feel very confident with their products.

Look I admit the GE gear is pretty good and they obviously have good R and D but the products they sell have far too much margin in them, you are paying for a name.. In Australia there is a really cool shop called Myers, this is the major shopping centres in Australia and to give you an example, they sell a Brand called Reserve, which is some pretty nice clothing but not all that expensive considering it comes from Myers, but I am fond Of Yves Saint Louren or YSL as it is called and this is a nice style of business shirt and suits, but I have always thought that Reserve's stuff is just as nice, but recently I just bought a pair of slacks and looked inside at the Reserve label and guess what.. they had sewn two labels there, one was YSL and lower than that was Reserve.. this is how I see GE. They do have a good choice of products but most of the gear is not made by them but is made in the same Asian factory that many others are made in, now how can you justify the more expensive price to get a product that is mostly the same as a cheaper product. Dont get me wrong consumer electronics is a lot different as systems integration is important and this is where I take my hat off to GE as they are an excellent sourcer of products and then they integrate them flawlessly, there is a lot to be said for a company that can source good product and then assemble it by itself and provide a full solution... however I think we would all be lying if most of our solutions are based on Enterprise style solutions, therefore most of us do not need it and why pay more for a branding and a name, sure it is easier to sell but so is a an equvilent product at a cheaper price. GE and many other companies like Pelco for instance sell thier product on false pretence.. they tell every one it is made in the US to install buyer confidence but nothing about that statement is fully true.. lets take the storesafe for instance....The board comes form ASIA yet because the case is assembled in the US it is branded as an US DVR, this is very typical.. for example.. PELCO. a major brand by any means is made by a company called DYNACOLOUR and then sold under its brand.. Consumers and installers need to know that there is a missconception about OEM and no name products... you see it works like this. Big names like GE, Pelco and others will find a good product in the Asian market and then they will ask the manufactorer to make it for them, the manufactorer is usually new to the market and working form a Grant given to them by the government and therefore they sell their product under another name with an agreement for volumes by the major players that Guarantees them not having to sell the product much and they can rely on their distributor.... but you see if that product falls behind in development..then the distributor drops it and then that manufactorer starts to search for a new distributor and then you can find excellent products that are equivalent to be sold but have some boring branding. A perfect example of this would be ADEMCO Australia, now ADEMCO is a major player and their DVR product comes form a company called HISCO and they recently contacted us to sell their gear.. you see there is no loyalty either way. The point I am trying to get accross is that there are very few manufactorers in the world, way less than many people think and a lot of products are Re Branded.. I am not saying GE do this but there are many products that are as good as GE if not better but are half the price, therefore I would not stock these produsts, you see because of GE's and other larger companies ties with Major Distributors, they are stuck with having expensive products... why?.. because the companies they sell to are high end and have offices all over.. therefore they have larger running costs than other smaller customers.. so they need bigger margins to survive..So GE and others can not drop prices to be able to sell to other distributors of their goods because then the big boys would be upset.. and the problem that lies there is that if the big boys are expensive and they get undercut then.. they lose sales and people like GE get pissed off. You see that most major distributors do not truley only wholesale...they do retail corporate jobs.. but here in Australia they run into problems.. I have mentioned before that 50FPS is not fast enough to be a sellable item here, so what happens.. the big distributor for GE is in trouble as people like me can sell a product that is better than it and much cheaper, so then competition is born.. but you see Consultants are starting to wisen up that there are better products and cheaper and therefore start to scope cheaper gear.. this means that the wholesaler can not make massive proffits from corporate sales and then the revenue is halved... GE gets pissed due to lack of volume.. then they come to people like us to increase volume and we tell them to piss off because the price is too high, so if they lower the prices they are stuffed.. they can not win this way.. one way around it is to have a disclosure agreement that is legally binding then they can shaft the big boys but offer prices that will never be put out in the open... this is what is happening now. The other way is to make an advertising campain stating that US made is better and that PC systems are unstable and try to fool the installers and the general public. An example would be the GEO CONTROL ROOM Versus..several other high end brands corporate integration software.. calling it ENTERPRISE SOLUTIONS does not disguise the fact that companies like Geo offer this for free while other major players charge an additional amount for this service. Shopping around as an installer can actually allow you import no more than say 16 pieces of camera that are of the same or better quality direct form an Asian manufactorer, sur eit is expensive to keep the stock until you sell it but then you still save thousands and you get the same quality product. Regards, GC

What does it hae to do with CCTV?

Most of the newer Ganz cameras have two outputs

Sorry mate, I have got your PM,s but I do not have prices at home so I will email it to myself at work and will send that to you tomorrow

I am with you Ricky

What an awesome site!!!

Its a micro atx board and a socket processor

So Thomas, if The kalatel has this CPU two sticks of non embedded ram and a standard Video chip.. do you consider it a standalone or a PC?

I saw them just the other day at the trade show here, it hasnt changed that much, they noiw have control room and they advertise Linux but it is apparently not available yet.. I must admit it is easier to use and very inexpensive but it lacks a lot of looks and its performance is average to say the least. It lackas a lot of features but then again not everyone needs it.. I have some boards here if anyone wants them.. I also saw chance-i and although they have done some development it is still rather ordinary and plain

I agree but you have to admit that Rory sees it different to everyone else.. and it is this kind of mentality and constant negative feedback that drives the mood against WELL BUILT pc products, I mean if Rory said " cheaply built PC's are not stable" then he would get a thumbs up from me.. but that is not what he is saying and making statements that windows is not stable form someone that is still using ME.. come on!!! The fact is that ONLY in the US is embedded more popular at the moment and yes it is increasing as they begin to come close with features, but if I blanketed every standalone as ...SLOW for instance it would be wrong.. because some do 400FPS, I could easily say Standalones are cheaply made, but some aren't!! My point is that he refuses to admit his products come from Asia.. and you and I both know they do!! Made in the US of A is hardly a term for assembling a board that was really MADE in Asia and to state that the Kaltel is not a PC is a Joke.. cmon you can stick a cat in a microwave but it sure isn't a biscuit!!! It has Ram sticks, CPU, Motherboard, Video display chip, CDRW.. for gods sake a CDRW can ONLY work on a PC Based OS!!.. Calling it micro pc power parts is a joke and I am so fed up with it that I am prepared to make 95 run on it just to prove a point! I dont mind people voicing their opinions and god knows I voice mine.. but to be so single minded in the approach is ridiculas.. the POLL I raised showed that many more people use PC than Standalone and god knows how many people have told Rory they have a perfectly stable PC but he refuses to accept it and that in its self is his choice.. but the problem is that he posts the most, 500% above most others so everyone reads how unstable PC's are and they arent!! I mean who puts on a clipboard the put down for PC and then saves time for posting it by cutting and pasting! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to be so narrow minded about it is absurd! I admit with AV that their are lots of cowboys around, but there are loads of good ones out there too. For every person that wants to install a plug and play.. fire and forget.. DVr there is another that is happy to get the upgrade install new options and load new software.. Look a PC is a PC and will never be as stable as a VCR but paying for a good one works very well,, but my main argument is this!! THE ONLY DIFFERECE BETWEEN THE KALATEL AND A PCI DVR IS THE O/S.. thats it!!! INFACT IT IS MADE WITH CHEAPER COMPONENTS THAN I WOULD EVER DREAM OF USING! This argument will never die but I hate the justified price hike for something that is cheaper to make.. and they only justify it by people like RORY that are brainwashed into believing the bull****! Anyone who reads this please do not think that I am having a go at RORY, I respect him fully, he is singularly the MOST helpfull person on this forum and has a great wealth of knowledge, not to mention an ace sense of humour, I am upset with the mindset not the person as I realy appreciate RORY and I have learnt a considerable amount from him indeed.

I know Ness's products pretty well, they arent all that expensive, they have improved a long way but are still a long way behind, I am not a big fan of Everfocus gear and the small standalone is anightmare to use.

6/ I found an awesome Standalone, but insanlely expensive, it has Jog Shuttle, CDRW or DVDRW, USB, VGA, full channels of audio Composite out and is ...yep wait for it.... 400FPS, and not in quad mode either, in single mode (havent tested that yet) it looks the absolute goods with an embedded RTOS here is a link for it, they also sell a 800FPS DVR with 32 CH hardware compression but not very cheap... it comes from ICFS in china but it looks the goods. http://www.austarsecurity.com.au/austar/products.asp?cid=1336

that is a complete System,, My apologies to Rory, I have not tested fully the DVRMe only the store safe and my recommendations above pertain to that product. How did I crash it rory.... well lets see the third time I connected the remote view it froze... and had the perfect systems of an access violation in memory.. you know why Rory bercause it is a PC, it has ram sticks and they can fail... You know I used to put up with you saying standalone was more stable and to some extent I agree but you got to far... You must have crashed a Kalatel as It IS a PC.. it is people like yo that put the fear into PC users of DVR ad this is ill informed information and very incorrect. It alos crashed when one of the buttons got stuck in the on position and also crashed while backing up to some blank disk, lastly I made it crash by rapidly turning it on and off.. but that is a little unfair!

I have tested both, the Kalatel wins on features and ease of use for backup purposes but the Sprte has got better remote software and third parrty control room software. The kalatel does do a better resolution recording but the DM is tighter on file size. The DM is easeir to use for features as it has less but the Kalatel is mighty powerfull indeed, If your In Australia, just give me a holler. Try DAS they were clearing out some DM's a while back, very cheap. Overall the sofwtare for DM looks much prettier but the Kalatel outperforms it excepting speed and once you learn how to use it it is quite easy to use.. very frustrating until you do... not that it is complicated, just that it is very different control wise, so it takes some time to adjust, but I imagine that if you use it a fair bit it would be like clockwork.. Last thing... DM is the only DVr I have not been able to crash.. Finnaly crashed a Dallmier.. that was the other one that had never failed.. I have crashed a Kalatel and have heard of others crashing them, but thier uptime is INSANELY good and a few crashes is ok. The DM also has a better powersupply in it and is more robust, but the Kalatel uses a really good CDRW (plextor). Either way you can not go wrong, you would find that the faster model of DM would be worth the investment but if you are not connecting 16 cams I would go for the Kalatel as it is (untill today) the best standalone I have ever seen. http://www.austarsecurity.com.au/austar/products.asp?cid=1336 i sell a 100FPS 16 Ch without HDD Satandlaone for $2000 AUD if you are interested but the Kalatel kills it for ease of use. Mind you for $2650 AUD I can give you a geovision 100FPS DVR 16 CH and that kills all three with features!

Samsung, Phillips etc have started to release lower end products, they are now below the quality I get from Sunkwang and are rampant in the marketplace. Sunkwang cameras sell well but not because of thier name.. lets face it Sunkwang is not a well known name..even though it is a good product.. I will OEM from now on so I need a catchy name that is small enough to put on a label on my cameras, does anyone have any ideas that are not already taken?

they are excellent cameras and they have great support, thier manual is the best I have seen yet

actually agree on that point, the housings are expensive thats why we do not bring them in.. the reason is they are made in the US, I had a look at the same phillips price list that you posted before from another US buyer and Ganz is cheaper... you can not compare the two domes, one has a full CS type guts in it and the other is an adjusted board lens, one has DC level adjustment. AWB, BLC and has a range of 2 to 10mm.. besides even if it were more expensive it would still sell becaus eits JAPANESE

Interested to see the demand in each area. Please do not only vote but also mention what you voted for and what area you are in. No multiple usernames guys!!!

11 voted for it.. would be 12 if I did compared to 4 of standalone.. I just wanted to prove the point that standalone stabilty is not as bad as people say and people trust PC's and that standalone is mostly popular ONLY in the US.. there is nothing else I could do except to sahow you that I ahve more standalone products on my website than PC Cards and the dealers all want PC, this is a common trend and is not as bad as the US makes out!

Boy are you getting ripped of Rory!! I do nto understand why people charge yo so much.. Ganz is cheaper... here.. In Asia.. and in US by all the price lists I have so far.. maybe you geta good deal on GE but Bosch standardises its prices.. which is why I like them

man your stubborn.. cmon man it is obvious more people ....other than the uS .. want PC based machines!

Well this post has been here for some time now.. it would seem that 61% of us are using PC based DVR equipment, that is very interesting results compared to the 22% of standalone users.

Sunnell does a lot of OEM stuff, they do a lot for S.A.Y securiity and many others, I think I heard they were doing some stuff for Kodicom as well. As for Phillips... they have combined with Bosch and are now the same company, Bosch has a limited time to be compliant with only Philips and its cameras, this means loads of clearance items. The Dinion cameras are excellent... though expensive compared to Ganz but they actually have 64Bit technology which allows for more variance in colour sampling, a lot of people copy Philips because of its design. Feel confident dealing with Bosch as they are a big company but thier PC based DVR's are a little weak!

you can already do that, I keep reading about the ability of standalones and how they will revolutionise the industry, to me that is pure hogwash, the point is that PC will always be the first to devlop the new hardware and the first to take advantage of it, the consumer drives the development but not in security more in PC based video capture and rendering. I also can not believe the hype over I.P. camera in the US, this is very strange because the majority of the models i have seen are not as well made as good high end analogue cameras. The way i see the future is very different to most, and i see a hybrid technology emerging, lets face it the only advantage at this stage of I.P. cameras is that you masy not need to run new wires but the bandwidth is not really up to the technology to share the bandwidth yet. You see you can now buy a 9ch webserver box for under $150 US, this is like a little router that allows you to plug your cameras in (analogue) and have full access, they already also allow you a 232 connection to a PC or Standalone box so that you can have a full remote features suite.. now I am not saying this is the new changes coming but when they have a way to put simply.. a box that can compress the video, be a full webserver and just sit a HDD, and supporst WIFI, we have it made!!! I know your all thinking well isnt that a standalone, but no it isnt and its very cheap to run.. I.P. is popular because you MAY NOT need to run wires, and the Router using one address, WIFI webservers to WIFI cams, using internal addresses and the router using an external means.... a 16ch install that takes 2 days can be done in less than two hours, no more wiring problems to solve or moving of a camera, this will result in many more hours available for sales and will also result in end users being able to buy the products off the shelf. So in answer to your question why not go for a webserver and use an analogue camera?