cctvexpert

Hikvision has mobile application but only runs on a Symbian platform. Streams video and audio. Can realize 15fps at 30k. The only phones it works on are the Sony Ericson and some of the new Nokias that support Symbian.

Hikvision. The software has a snapshot button and has full duplex audio.

Take a look at Hansol. They make some nice product and the prices are reasonable. They go up to 19" right now and larger along the way.

It depends on the system. The cheaper ones record a single image that is multiplexed. The higher end units record multiple images. Beyond this is the question of unicast and multicast which is a whole other issue, more to do with remotely watching the videostreams from different feeds. But I guess you are talking record only.

I would say you get what you pay for these days. The one thing I have never understood is an integrators biggest expense is service calls but yet they will try to save a few bucks on a card only to give back that much and several times that. That is why ultimately unless there is a good reason one should look at the better embedded systems. PC's can still do things that embedded units cannot but in individual installations they are still the best solution.

They use Hikvision.

Hikvisionusa.com - which we were talking about before. They do sell cards also, but won't sell in small volume.

We have a client that is having a problem with the GV over remote client using a PTZ. The PTZ crawls remotely but when they connect any other DVR program it seems to work fine ruling out any possible camera issue. Any suggestions

If you do some homework you will see that they are actually the largest manufacturer of cards in the world. This is the government of China not a small concern (national company not private). We checked them out thoroughly before we tried. The DVR's we received did not look like this one. The one we received was actually much different and put together well with much in the way of fault tolerance. The stability and picture quality is what is most impressive. Look at the live demo and see what i mean. When have you seen audio sync like that. We actually this week got the mobile phone beta and they stream video from the DVR at 15fps with sync audio compressed to 30k with a gorgeous pic. The thing that impressed me most as far as installs is their product in a banking solution with 1,000+ locations and 8 cams avg/loc. and running T1's from points to central point. I spoke with a couple of integrators here who have them in eval stages with casinos and supposedly happy. But I agree with you Rory who wants to be first. The local reps here in NY though seem to know their stuff.

I emailed GV and got a response of that unless it is Pelco they cannot guarantee it will work. I don't mean Pelco protocol I mean Pelco camera, which is a ridiculous answer. It appears that it is unique to GV since these same cameras work on all other DVR's. Have tried the speed controls have tried the Pelco P and D settings with no luck. It just crawls. They said when they come out with 7.0 at some point in the future it will address this. Part of the problem with GV if you look at the evolution of the product is it has been patched together instead of a new architecture.

Actually I see they now do 64 channel and they do have the virtual matrix. The DSP technology appears to be the answer for you. We have used the system as a 64 x 8 matrix on CIF and 32 x 8 on D1. We have been able to stack them and centrally manage them. Using their bridge we can communicate with Pelco and AD matrix switchers via the RS232. All in all its a good solution. Do not know about support in the Middle East. They do have an impressive client list but mostly in Asia. www.hikvisionusa.com

The best product I have seen out there so far is the Hikvision. They use the H.264 codec which is stable as can be. You should take a look. They also have that virtual matrix. So far the only one that can do "true" D1 on as many as 32 channels.

After having spent the last 18 months living through the hell of no support with Geovision I ran into a company out of New York. The company is Aventura Technologies and their product is called Vendoma. I was a little skeptical as everyone passes themself off as having the latest and the greatest. I decided after the nonsense I had been through with others in addition to Geovision that I was going to do an in depth check of who was who in this business. First I found out that Geovision is not even a manufacturer but a Taiwanese trading company that has their products made for them in Korea. When I found this out I researched even further to find out who was really making product for whom elsewhere in the business. This led me to find that even companies like Pelco, Vicon and General Solutions which were well known names were not making their product either. Their product was also made in Korea by a company called Sungjin. When you cut through all of it - the whole thing comes back to a handful of companies. What I found is that much of the software in many cases came back to Vendoma. These guys do alot of the software for many manufacturers. They will private label even for just a few boards which is kind of neat. I can use DHCP with no problem since they provide internal DNS services and they have written applications to address PPPoE issue and a host of the small problems that annoyed me with Geovision. So basically, the system runs uninterrupted. One thing I found interesting was they claimed their product uses full advantage of hardware compression so the quoted frame rates were actually as stated. Most of the other products I tried never really lived up to the claims because they were using software compression which when under many "taxing" circumstances resulted in as much as 20% total frame rate loss. The audio issue was another bear I have had to deal with in the past and although it was kind of complicated the Vendoma product did well. It was the first product I have found that the audio was fully sync'd in record and playback. The only drawback I found was the pricing is a little more expensive then Geovision but overall with the time we save on service issues more then makes up for it. I also had bought one of their finished products which runs on Embedded XP and it was ridiculously fast, but they do not offer that when you buy cards. They advise 2000 Pro or XP. Has anyone been able to get the Vendoma to work on Embedded XP? I have been looking into their mobile products now and it works great local, but wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with their wireless 915MHz solution which they claim will transmit up to 1MB up to 20 miles line of sight using Mobile Ad hoc Networking? Also interested if anyone has had experience with their Network Matrix DVR which allegedly can replace last-generation matrix switchers seamless?[/b]

FYI, you should also get your facts straight and if Aventura Technologies is kind enough to give you a tour then speak your piece. Interesting how they would even discuss anything with you without signing an NDA also, since this was the first thing they asked when speaking with me. If you know anything about government business many of the agencies they sell to would not deal with you unless you have 100% control of the product and can put the source code in escrow in case you go out of business. Government agencies cannot take any chances and in many cases will not deal with products under foreign control. In addition, they would not even entertain doing business with you in the first place if they had concerns about the "owner" of the product and the longevity and ability of the company to support it. I don't want to defend any company I just want to make sure that you don't go around talking about anyone's products without being educated. So this is not about Vendoma specifically. Every one is entitled to speak their mind and certainly you can speak yours and you have. It is for reasons like this as I have previously stated that forums like this never flourish. Because some choose to take over and chase others away through various means some of which are specifically intentiional. I don't want to embarass anyone any more so if any one would like to constructively discuss anything you can email me and i will do the same in kind. There are a couple of companies in China that are making strides on the h.264 if anyone is interested. The products are good but the software is incredibly weak. HIKVision and ILDVR. They both have a way to go but are in the right direction. They are working on MPEG4v2. Boards are also ridiculously expensive. Look for the conditional wavelet. We have experimented with them and so far so good but its just too early to make positive remarks and will probably not be there for several months.

1. Interesting by the way that you spoke with the CEO and "he" whatever. The CEO is a woman so that is strike one and she has no idea who you are. 2. As far as you talking to the CTO who didnt know what you claim 878 was or whatever, well I spoke with him today for the first time and that was only after making an appointment to speak with him with his assistant and he politely said he has no clue who the heck you are and does not have time to chat on the company chats and support lines. 3. As far as who and what Vendoma is he giggled and for the most part was not interested even in justifying your remarks with a response other then to say, look at who our customers are which is over 50% government and that speaks for itself. He was actually very polite about everything and again did not want to get into discussions about BS and was interested in discussing the product if I had any concerns, which I have none so far. FYI, how you can even compare GVision to anybody has to be a joke. You obviously are a cheerleader for them, when everyone I know who has ever used them has nothing but horror stories with everything from: . having to reboot the system on a regular basis . recorded images being poor . cameras losing signal . object tracking doesnt function right . no version control . zero customer support . the list goes on and on And you can compare this to a company that as a whole so far I have never heard a bad word about their product. Whether you say it is Chance-i or not well I will leave that alone, since you seem to know what is possible with a GUI and my degrees and experience in writing code for 25+ years seem to tell me otherwise. Considering I have seen the SDK for Chance-i which again would not give you the proper controls. So I won't even debate with you since its a moot issue. I will not argue with you anymore because it is pointless. We are here to try to advance and make progress and share. Attempting to bash a company that I see has done nothing negative and you seem to trash only tells me you have ulterior motives. As one person here intelligently asked who cares how does the product work. You have had no experience with their product yet chose to comment. When you try it then you can make intelligent statements. I know enough to know when I don't know and just listen. People who think they know everything are the ones who never learn because they think they know all. Like I said before how you compare "rocket scientists" with Taiwanese trading companies is beyond the imagination. Getting back to answering other question about latest Chance-i version it is going to be a long ways off as far as debugging. MPEG4 is not stable. In general none of the MPEG4v2 is stable. There are several mosaic issues. Part 10 of 264 addresses this issue but is way off in the future. The only stable application for this is the new conditional wavelet. MPEG4v2 in addition to having mosaic issues even on the hardware side you have to remember that to get true full frame rate there are issues. For full D1 you can only get 2 channels. You can go to 4 channels on half D1 but same problems when blowing up to full screen. You have to remember that MPEG2 has been around for a decade now and only the last couple of years have seen stability. MPEG4 has a way to go and because the technology is "projecting" it will always be a problem with fast moving objects that will be blurred. We have tested several of the h.264 part 2 and part 10 against MPEG2 and compared the encoding efficiencies. We did statistical multiplexing to dynamically distribute the bandwidth and inspect picture quality. What we found was as follows: The MPEG4v2 was not in the same league as the MPEG4v10 but the v10 required intense processing power. Mosaic was and is an issue on the MPEG4v2. We used images of sporting events. The pictures on the v2 were blurred. In short and not to go into an entire white paper the MPEG4v2 has a long way to go before becoming commercially viable if ever. The next stop may be leapfroggin to other platforms. My belief is the MPEG2 is going to be around for a while. the MPEG4 will be out there because the market wants it but the stability issues will be of concern. For the casual user it is acceptable but for mission critical security its a major problem. A thief running from the scene of a robbery cannot be visually detected.

This is why forums like this never grow. You have know-it-alls who well let's see they defend a Taiwanese trading company reselling VGA cards against a high-tech company that... Forums are for sharing ideas in an attempt to learn from each other, not defending the product you sell and when someone comes along that might shed light on something else you chase them off and try to bash anything they bring. That is why people that can constructively contribute to a forum like this won't be bothered. Narrow minded people who think they know-it-all. You should be smart enough to know that there are plenty of people out there that are alot smarter then you are. With all my diplomas on the wall and grey hairs I still know that I learn everyday and keep an open mind. Let's see the lead programmer you spoke to didn't know what a BT878 was, and you argued with the CTO. So you spoke with the 2 top development guys at this company, yea and I am Bill Gates. If anyone is interested in constructive and productive conferences www.asisonline.org has some great programs. That's it for me and good luck to anyone else who wants to speak their mind. This is America isn't it! Wait he's an expert from Australia, that's right! Gidday!

AUSTRALIA - Thats it for me with these forums I see where this goes. Usually the purpose is to try to share ideas you just want to well I see what happens when people defend things such as you and your motives. As far as you talking to the CTO of Vendoma who knows nothing that is a very interesting statement and not even going to go near that one. You must know everything and I guess the 300+ fools that work for the CTO of Vendoma know less. That must mean too that all the government agencies that use them are clueless also. I thought this was an intelligent place to discuss things. Have fun with Geo! Its not about you trying to bash and defend a project. Maybe if you were productive you wouldnt have as much time to spend on this board. Have a nice life.

Back to your question its not PC based. Looks like a VCR, acts like a VCR but its a DVR. You basically buy a kit, then fabricate a chasis and add some minor components and voila you have a DVR. Everything is on the board/kit so its not like buying a capture card and sticking it in a PC.

RTOS. They even have now CMOS cameras with decent quality pictures for about $10 and that is with 6 LED IR. Scary stuff. It's not my market but that is where things are going on the low end of the market. They are already selling this stuff all over eBay. That's when you know its on its way lower than low. Some of them have the removable drive bays but have issues if you remove the drive when its in the middle of recording. The joke at the ISC show in Vegas recently was I was walking with someone and said a hundred bucks if you can find a booth without a DVR. You would think we were being invaded. Like I said China is catching up very quickly and the Korean market is going to suffer the same fate it did with VGA cards when China put them out of that business with subsidized government money.

When I said US$100 I am talking the complete assembly. Those are the Vineyard and ALog kits. So all you need is a chasis and some minor added components and you have a real time recorder. the net version of the standalone is only an additional US$50 - US$60 PCB $3 Motion Detector and Buzzer $3 TCP/IP and PHY $8 240 PINS FPGA $21 Audio Codec $4 Memory $7 Misc. $2 - $4 Basically for additional $50 bucks you have LAN version When going up from Simplex to Multiplex it isnt that much more just requires a little engineering but no rocket science. So for $150 in parts you have a real time 4 channel embedded unit

Product is made by others in Hong Kong. Usually it is the opposite way but not in this case. At least that is for the mobile DVR's for sure.

Paprotec is right on. We looked into writing our own application from scratch and we approached a number of experienced development companies who told us almost unanimously if they rushed it would be a year throwing massive resources to it and to debug at least another 3 - 6 months. Then you have to hope the platform you built upon is the right choice and that the architecture was such that you could make a transition should the technology shift. Basically, unless you had oodles to p*** away it wasn't worth it. That is the issue with many of the board manufacturers. To reinvent the wheel at this point is too expensive so they build on suspect architecture and since there is no sign of pressure why spend money they dont have to. Additionally, they are all afraid of the embedded solutions and rightly so. The PC based market will cease to exist within 24 months. But that is my opinion. They can do anything with embedded you can do with a PC or to the point where they will be able to shortly. When it comes to a choice for an integrator of a mechanical type device that cannot be screwed up by the end user as opposed to having to deal with showing up at a customer who has loaded his Microsoft Office Suite and music files on the DVR and wants to know what happened, I don't think its much of a contest. The kits right now for the 4-channel embedded unit with a real time display full NTSC display and 30fps record are US$100, what does that tell you.

SJ and GS have not split. You can call Sungjin yourself and they talk about them openly, which is something I would have a problem with if I was GS. This industry has one simple problem. It has become an IT field which security people are trying to play in. Which is like trying to play in a game where everyone in the room speaks Swahili and English and you only speak English and want to converse in Swahili. IMO, you can teach IT people security but you can't teach security people IT. Pelco i feel has the best support of any company I have ever dealt with second to none. They take the position that the customer is always right and will do anything to make them happy. This is why they have become a standard and people will pay extra. Buyers at public agencies buy them because if they choose Pelco and there is a problem they point to the brand and say I chose the most reputable. This of course has been a double edged sword since they can't get the DVR business right. They are though a victim of there own success as the name till this day is magic. But they don't understand the product and won't any time soon and are doing harm to themselves. They are at the mercy of their suppliers and the communication process with overseas is fair to impossible and things take too long to correct. When I was dealing overseas directly every time I had a problem it was weeks before anything got done and usually several times before it was corrected properly since half the time they did not understand what I was talking about. Then they would fix one thing and change another and not tell you. Then you ask them questions and they are asking your opinion. You have to remember where these companies overseas came from. These were not software developers they were VGA board manufacturers. The board portion is easy, the DB structure is the key and many have not got it right. That's why all the instability, system mysteriously restarts, and when you get to the big systems they crawl and freeze. They just arent designed properly. I have to believe at some point Pelco will bite the bullet and bring in the right people to head this portion of the business. This means IT people not security people.

I agree with you that there are good things happening over in Asia they just don't know how to translate that into business, that has always been a problem. I am sure its no SDK because I have extensive experience with this type of product and like I said the things they do are not things you do with an SDK because they are completely foreign to the application which video was only a small portion in my case. It is a medical application and that is how I found out about their other products. They first started working on the project with conditional wavelet compression, which is not something you simply change in an SDK of a board that operates on Morgan JPEG or MPEG2. They tried to apply three-dimensional wavelet decomposition and adaptive arithmetic coding of 3D imaging and couldn't get it stable but I saw some basic results before they shifted back to another platform where they got it to work. These are guys playing up on another level and my guess is they do more government work then they can say. Basic video surveillance and video capture is a toy to them. I have an MEng and felt ignorant many times in talking to them especially since many of the guys that work there could be my "kids." (Yes they have women to - to be politically correct!) Even their basic low level tech support people that you deal with are light years ahead of the head engineers at other companies I have dealt with, which tells me they ain't living off of selling video capture cards for a few hundred dollars and paying engineering people in New York to answer the phones 24-hours a day for support calls. No one could afford to do that.

Out of the 300+ programmers my guess by the way is not more than 10% of them are doing this, but that is a guess. But to keep turning out what they have been doing on the R&D side, I would bet you are right and they have some programmers over in India because it would be too expensive to develop here. The application they did for me could not have been done here so quickly or cost effectively. Their bread and butter they claim is still custom applications for VoIP, biometrics and HIPAA. They have some neat biometric and wireless stuff.