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Rory, I was wondering about that. I have put CCTV on a standard TV that had a video input. Side by side you could see the difference but by itself it was not to bad. So is the resolution better on a TV-LCD that it would give a better composite picture?? Thanks

I am developing a standard answer when asked "over the phone" HOW MUCH??? My ansewer will be something like. "I guarantee that it will cost less than $1/2 million". Maybe I will modify that a bit with you in mind. Version #2 "I guarantee that it will be less dan $1/2 million, mon".

Oh, and I just remembered that your cost would be even higher, right???

Hi Rory, Again just courious but if a 17" LCD PC monitor cost say $180 - $300 and a 17" CCTV monitor cost from $350 to $500 that is some awful expensive components in there. Some days certain things just make you go hmmmmmmmmm???

Hello all, I am presently designing a cctv system but the building size dictates a lot of cable. The longest run will be about 390 feet from the head end. After doing some calculations for voltage drop I can see that I am going to be in trouble at the camera dome location with heater/blower current draw at 24 vac. My plan is to use siamese cable with 16 gage 2 cond. wire. However the volts are just going to be past operation. What would be the recommended options. Place the power supply closer is one choice but that is going to mean new AC circuits being installed. Or is it better to get 115v cameras and run power from the headend??? Any helpful thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Les

Ok, I think I got a good handle on this voltage drop issue and thought it would be helpful to others here so I decided to share. The Altronix calculator is good. It is based upon resistance of the wire and current draw. If the wire run is a give length ie 400 feet it doubles this length to 800 for the calculations since the wire resistance is for the full length out and back. So if you plug in your numbers and see that you will have a voltage drop of 7.5 volts this is 7.5 volts no matter if you are using 24 volts or 32 volts or even 120 volts. Badda Bing!!! Now some may wonder if you have 7.5 volts worth of drop on a 24 volt source which give the camera a voltage of 16.5 volts how is it you get a crisp picture. Well the answer is that some cameras allow for a wide voltage range. Such as the Bosch LTC's The voltage range is 12-24 vac. Others like the Honeywell HCCM474M has a voltage range of 21--26 vac. The other point is that if you see your voltage is going to be a little low for a given camera then you can pump up the voltage on the source to say 28vac. But becareful, the camera runs that are closer to the source will not have the same voltage drop and you don't want to over power them. So on the given camera location the Bosch will be just fine but the Honeywell will be suffering. Badda Bang!!! The problem as I see it is all the variables involved with the various manufactures it is very important to read all the specs and do the calculations before you just lick and stick. Badda Boom!!! Thanks for all the added input, it really did help me to see that I needed to spend some additional time and did a little deeper. Hope this helps someone else should the challenge come up in your project. Later,

Yea, that is a good thought. Just drill a hole in the pipe and smooting the sharp edges. OR At the flange put a close nipple, then a Tee, then the rest of your pipe. yup that will do it.

What you need is a threaded pipe flange. It is a plumbing item. Get the right size pipe cut to length and threaded on both ends. Mount the flange to a beam, rafter, or what ever ceiling structure so that then end of the flange has enough clearance to pass your cables thru. Then at the bottom end thread on another that is affixed to the back of your favorite electrical box. Pull your cables thru and then use a blank plate cover to mount what ever camera mount is desired. At 7 feet you may have some wobble of the camera. So you will need to put a support bracket at an angle back up to the ceiling like a gusset. You could use standard conduit EMT for this but depending upon the weight of the camera it could pull apart. That is why I suggested the threaded pipe. Good luck.

Kao, thanks for the testing, good information. First, I am convinced that the Altronix calculator uses a un-defined voltage for its calculations. I believe it is 24 volts but not sure. Thanks for doing the calculation with the 1000 foot spool. What would be real interesting is checking the actual amp draw with a digital meter. Place the meter in amps switch the leads to the proper jacks and place the meter in line. Doing it with out the 1000' spool and then with the the spool. There should be an increase in amp draw thus a voltage drop. Wish I had a 1000' spool in stock to try. I agree that you may have a good picture but it may be that the camera can actually work with some lower voltage than 24vac due to a voltage regulator. The question is what is the bottom threshold voltage where the picture suffers and/or gone altogether. Also I agree that a given txfmr will normally give an output greater than the specified. ie. 26-27 volts on a 24 volt txfmr. What will happen is that when you approach the VA rating of the txfmr the voltage will drop and the txfmr will heat up until such point that the txfmr will fail or a fuse will blow. A camera load of .3 amps is a bit insignificant to .8amp transformer, since it is not even working hard yet. I have found a common point that I can place a multi camera power supply that will shorten the longest run of cable to about 180 feet. That will make me more comfortable. The video will remain at the 390 feet but I don't see that being a problem. Again thanks for the efforts. This is all very interesting.

If anything you should be installing small central air units in your domes. Will help the electronics from overheating.

I am going to be using some Videolarm SWD domes with Heater/Blowers. According to the specs they will about draw 2.25 amp at 24vac. Granted they will only draw that when it gets cold but when it does I beleive that the picture will be gone, gone, gone!!! Question for kensplace or anybody for that matter, any recommendation on a good gound loop isolator??? And what is AVR when it relates to a UPS. All Video Return??? Have not heard that term before and was wondering. TIA

Thanks for the nice chart. It would seem that this confirms my fears. 24vac at 2.25 amps on 16 gage wire 390 feet long will have a bit of a problem. Even at 28vac is still a problem. 8 volt drop is a bit much. With this in mind it would seem that pulling the power from the location of the camera dome would be better. OR Run 120vac to a txfmr at the camera dome would be another solution. Anyone have any other thoughts??? TIA

Then what am I missing. I have not had a camera run more than 125' feet before so I never really calculated the voltage drop. So this time I went here http://www.altronix.com/app_notes/calc.php and pluged in the numbers. I double the wire length to 780 feet and get a voltage drop of 14 volts with 16 gage wire and 2.25 amps at 24 volts. Is this calculator broken or something??? Even if I don't double the wire length (which should be) I get 7.02 voltage drop. I just noticed that the calculator does not include a cell for volts. So I used another calculator that does request voltls that I have, with the same numbers as above and got a 8 volt drop. Thats a 36% drop in power. Something is wrong or right here and I am not sure what?? Any thoughts.

Looking for Opinons and/or Observations on a EVR16-480-2000 made by Toshiba. I have a customer that may be looking at a system with this capacity along with 90 days worth of storage for 32 cameras. Looking for Plus and Minus scores with good alternatives if possible. Thanks in advance.

Hi all, This may sound like a silly question but here goes. Is it possible or practical to have a camera at 4 different sites(town) connected to a DSL Routers and being recorder at a 5th site. In other words four remote sites. All have DSL. Install a IP Camera at each. The have all recorded at a fifth site to a DVR or Dedicated PC. Customer thinks is should be possible but I disagree because of the band width required. Any thoughts on this. Thanks, Les

Quite true. The customer wants just one camera. However I feel it would be a bit short sited not to put in a 4 channel. I just need to explain it to him in a nice way. Thanks,

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful. I agree that it would be more practical to place a 4 channel DVR at each site so that some there is some room for growth in the future. Seems more logical to me. Again thanks for the input. Les

Hello, I am looking for some input on a DVR that would 16 channel video and 4 or 8 channel audio. Primary concern would be for ease of use or in other words end user friendly. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Les

Ok, Thanks. Concerning the Pelco DX8000. Has anyone here actully installed a unit and if so what is your opinion. Pro/Cons Thanks.

FYI these DVR's do not come with a HHD for that price do they??? From what I have seen they are empty on storage and you can add what you want. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hello All, I am a newbie here and I have been reading with great intrest to all of Rory and DVR_Expert_Australia OPINIONS. I have not sold any DVR to date but things are getting very close to that possibility. The manufacture of choice will be a Kalatal. I make this choice due to the research that I have performed and knowing my time and mental restraints. However I am having a bit of trouble deciding which unit to go with. The application is the following. 12-14 cameras, recording retention 10 - 14 days or more. Backup to CDRW. Connect to Network for viewing etc. with WaveReader. It is my understanding that the StoreSafe now has a "Pro" version that can handle a larger drive to I think 600G. It is also my understanding that the Triplexâ„¢ DVMRe also has a "pro" version that has a built in CDRW or DVD Record and hard drive capacity up to 1 terrabyte. My main questions are: 1) For the above application which unit would be the better choice and why?? 2) For most pratical issues isn't the DVD Recorder more storage space that is needed to save a 5 minute incident for evidence??? 3)Is the "Pro" versions just a bit on the pricy side right now since they are new?? 4) What are the pros and cons on these units or is there another model that would be a better choice??? 5) Is there any info that I did not provide that would help with the decision. Thanks in advance for all the thoughts.

One other quick question. How can I get the links that Rory provided another for sites that are viewable on the net??? Thanks