i went with security camera kings 37x ptz. alittle more that what i wanted to spend at 850 but its a cool camera. almost silent. i have to get over the guilty feeling when watching it. i feel like a super spy. when it arrived there was no safety cable or rubber gasket or gloves. made me think it was refurb. but there were no scrathes and i looked hard. tech said when they get them they unbox to update the firmware. they are sending me all that stuff. i also got the ptz remote did not want to use a mouse. that thing works like a charm. day pic is great night is great when no lights are in the shot i dont know if i have to adjust something.