Lolo Wolf

just a thought...what method did you use for your suspect splice, is it outdoor and where on the run is splice located....you say the quality changes....could be a failing splice causing intermittent contact, a sloppy splice will lead to failure at some point down the road, if your splice is to blame and dependent on the length of the run maybe better to pull new and lessen the chance of haunting you later if its a short run can you lay a temp cable to the cam and see if it goes to normal

Hello Rick, gotta pic or a link to your Korean mini, Im curious as to the origin..... thanks

Hello VST, here are some reads, Pro AV online my favorite source of industry news for installs, perhaps some of these sites may intrest you as well the highdeff forum has helped in the past on some tricky mod work... http://www.highdefforum.com/ http://www.atsc.org/standards/a53.html http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2007/08/2007_hdtv_technology_review_part_1_introduction_toc.php http://www.proavmagazine.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1781&articleID=588504 (check article on multiple HD displays using video 16X64 Knox video matrix)

"I noticed when I wiggle the balun connection at the dvr I actually see the video get better!" "Remember there are 5 cameras that are working correctly...." your remarks give a good insight where you can begin to troubleshoot. Check all your new terminations to the DVR, are you going direct to the dvr with baluns,is there a tight solid contact with the bnc are the twists within the limits to the baluns, try observing direct to monitor one of your new cam (12volt ones) bypassing the dvr observe the signal on a service monitor (hand held etc) and see what you get. If its clean then you know your next step is to concentrate on the suspect wiring to your DVR, perhaps using a UTP mini hub then wire direct bnc output to bnc imput on your DVR, may resolve some mess of cat wires getting loose or making poor contact, Rory has raised some good info on the RG issue if you do pull new make sure you are using proper cable...RG59 copper 95% or 6 with copper.... no aluminum. How far are your exsiting working 24v ac cams on the RG59 that are giving a normal signal? Can you swap a 12volt cam to the RG see if it you get a normal pic, do you have access to local power near one of the added 12volt cams where you can try a single 12volt transformer and observe the picture to test, you maybe picking up a lot of ac pollution just within the building itself, you stated that it was a older site with various voltages traveling...is all your wire exposed, are any runs outside of plant underground...poles/building face etc... a lot of these issues can be checked by trying various swaps and interconnects by using the exisiting cables and your added sources before you spend additonal T&M on more gear into the mix. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to power and signal ( I laugh at the market catch phrase "plug and Play" better to say plug and Pray, as the various comments attest to if you search this forum, there are certain guidelines to follow for sure on cable etc. but in the field often issues arise and you can only try to resolve by trying various configs, till you aquire a good result that your clent and you will be satisfied with. As I said before I avoid running power/voltage on cat when I use baluns and by using isolated power often resolves issues that you are finding. Using cat for long runs as a power wire you must consider the voltage drops and related issues such as protection,mechanical durability (placement/pull etc) A good rule of thumb prior to hangin cams is to approve a plan starting with all the power considerations, voltages, wire, etc. I have found retro fits often harder than new installs but you say that the exsisting system was clean with 24v take a close look at the 12volt being thrown into the mix. Some dedicated 12volt cams play well within 24v systems with converters some dont, mixing 24 and 12 volt may cause problems. In so far as design issues I just returned from a site where the clent had run #14romex from a outdoor recpt spliced on a #12 middle of run to a outdoor box 100ft where he wanted me to place a power box.... aside from the wrong type/size wire spliced (to a 20amp breaker) I noted the fault and code/violation he didnt want to correct it I refused the job.

compression type? retail a lot of online vendors carry such as http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/215/sesent/00 and http://www.trianglecables.com/200-084.html and smarthome etc....

Hello Joecoin, the cameras you are thinking about are thermal image and as Scorpion says they are quite expensive, perhaps you may want to look at snake type inspection cameras (used for pipe and industrial applications)

make sure you armor the cable Moles, mice, rats, chimpmunks and other critters love to chew on cables and are attracted to heat sources as well as water...

JTA, I dont use 12volt very often...but If you can try to run all your power isolated on 18-2. After many hit and misses Ive stopped running any power through cat for typical cams (not IP) too many issues can arise, some cams/setups are finiky using balums...interesting on a install used two differnt balums NVT and Nitek on a outdoor isetup..... approx.360ft run... ground loop and some snow flicken right from the start, replaced the trans balun with a cheap 10dollar OEM groundloop blocker type balun and picture cleared up but went further and isolated the power on a run of 18-2 and picture went to normal ....go figure? A lot of installers here on the forum have had good luck with power/video on cat I dont take the chance anymore gonna pull wire anyway so I spec another

Rick.... Which Mini? Ive used two different ones ....Nuvico and TBT (OEM) Purchased from Rainbow, other dealers put their Brand on them. I placed some info on them under forum question "smallest Mini PTZ"

If you ORDERED RG59 siamese 95%copper and you got aluminum braid tell your dealer to use it for his system.

send it back , 95%copper braid, find a reliable source, there are several dealers here on this site that know the difference...

Hello VJD, the only downside to the TBT (oem) is the terminal block (uses 2 5pin wire conectors) The Nuvico had a prewire assembly easier to work with and not as fragile, you have to be real careful sneakin the wires through the wall mount after fitting the dome into the inclosure. I fabed up a cable hold down to stop any chance of a wire pull from the backside of my jbox aside from that I found the quality of the unit to be good, the threads and related mechanical surfaces were machined well. You may wanna go with the 24vac versions if you are intergrating with a 24 system, I tried a 12volt version and had some compatability issues even using a altronix VR-1 converter and also tried a true isolated 12volt supply still didnt play well with the 24system, overall good mini ptz for the price and the IRcut works without a hitch, quick smooth transition. The alarm settings worked well(set up to to a PIR sensor located at the entry gate as well to respond to call button on the entry box), I installed it on a site North of me here and the PM temps were in the low teens this week I spoke the client yesterday and he has had zero issues with it so far.

if you are gonna go mini ptz, cost effective stick with the TBT (branded Rainbow and other vendors)just returned from site and the nuvico went south, pic probs and tilt fail on boot worked ok on the bench....24hrs but probs after install will replace with the TBT my other install is working well with that mini. Maybe a bad cam but nevertheless Im not taking any chances trying another......16ft in the air mounted on a 6x6....its gettin cold out here....

Try Almex http://www.burlecctv.com/index.htm they carry Bosch and have 230vac 50HZ cams listed on their website also check with Northen Video, Ive had good service with them finding gear. Sorry cant help you more, good luck

Rory if you are crawlin through a attic and see bare wires tied together all over the place a good idea to move on, all splices should be boxed and (with faceplate/cover)... exposed to allow access, I too have encountered a lot of issues with addons from clients even splices buried in walls....trouble for sure and not worth my time to correct other peoples dangerous mistakes, aside from the liabilities your life is more important than a cam job. In so far as the 2prong plug you can use it, the green short ground marked earth is for bonding/protection, if you were to hardwire or attach to a conductive building surface or outdoor box I would bond. Remember in order for a lot of protection devices to function to spec they require a working building ground, most UPS have a diagnostic led to report a building wiring fault.

Rory, electronic devices/trans. that are supplied with 2-prong AC cords. refered to as double-insulated, are supposed to be specially designed and certified to guarantee safety even when overloaded or experiencing an internal component failure. They are common in consumer electronics and low-power equipment. However dependent on the class of the transformer and as C7 in Ca says, it is a good idea to bond metal boxes as there is a potential they could be come energized due to mechanical failure or tampering, I bond all my power boxes, hardwired to a dedicated circuit at the panel.

Most tele/call boxes have a outbound trigger for lock activation ( usally star key on phone..dependent on your device) use the inbound trigger relay to activate cam, dvr...etc then modulate to a dedicated channel on your tv if its digital there are work arounds, really better off with dedicated cam always on, mod to a channel, dvr motion detect on the gate if record is needed, less devices simple for end user..if its auto jump to channel on motion detect from a motion sensor at the call box then its a lot more complex (home controllers/X-10 etc.. but possible here are some solutions www.csi3.com/ and http://www.csi3.com/app_11.pdf

Scorpion, Rory, hope you fellas stay safe...I think we are in for a rough winter too, just got a feeling. My family back in south florida is still rebuilding damage from last year.

you can also check out Mier....http://www.mierproducts.com/default.htm if needed they have a line of temp controlled configs and nema rated boxes as well standard enclosures DVR etc...good quality solid products

Yes they are new to their PTZ line, think I might check one out , finished up a entry job using the nuvico....good results sized right for the client benched it 24hrs....no problems used the tbt on another.. nice cam performs well had to return for night at the customers res, setting up the DSS, tweaking for a good tight night shot using some external IRs fella likes to watch his cows at night.... I think the Nuvico is about the smallest so far though.... a little bit less than the TBT including the wall mount. Didnt have any issues with fog/condensation with the Nuvico, the tbt gave me a bit of a problem but that was due to cold damp day on install fitted it out in the field had the dome off in the truck radical temp change and it took a awhile for the cam to stabilize after I energized it....do a lot of outdoor cold installs out here and often got the bodys open or domes out so if I am in a hurry to set up I use a heat gun off the truck welder/generator and wave it carefully around the cams so I can make the adjustments.....anyway the fella was lookin for small mini maybe there are more ...seems like the demand is growing every time you turn your head a new product or copy is out there....takk skal du ha for informasjonen god natt

didnt see any mention of IRcut .....but interesting all the same, a lot of gear movin from china these days, some good some bad also a lot of junk but interesting all the same. Norway...beautiful country....did some work there back in the 80s....Stavanger oh that ride to Oslo! back in my drinkin days.....rough starts ....good times. anyway Tuesen Takk

http://www.isorainbow.com/cameras/sd10xdn.html

Lou, pretty sure ....aside from IP compact ptz you are limited to the TBT which as stated before is sold by some outfits with their brand like Rainbow http://www.rainbowcctv.com/cameras/sd10xdn.html,the mini outdoor Nuvico Ms-Z10, korean products (I use both these cams with Pelco protocol) there some other OEM types sold by retail outfits like supercircuits and other web vendors, most of which are china based imports... and there are some industrial speciality minis, if you happen to be looking at targets externally of the domicile that are nuclear in nature, here.... is one for you: http://www.istcorp.com/documents/MiniPTZ.pdf

Did they leave any stub ins or unfilled conduit at the ghouse? A lot would depend on your ability and cost factor to trenching, pavement/concrete breaking etc and aside from the entry cam(s) where else do they want to monitor? Is there only one entry? What kind of gate is it (slider, barrier...etc) is the ghouse manned, will you be inspected are there any code issues you need to address before spec your job,see if you can get a asbuilt on the entire site where you will be working. In so far as plate capture I would use a dedicated cam(s) designed for that service mounted on solid posts with a small iron crash post beneath it,installed with a footer. You can enable video capture with the gate function or use motion, all these questions are related to your conditions at the site.

One day at a time....Ok back to problem..Reighn328, also check/ask if there has been any recent power events, go to the ac (panel) source feeding your supplies, look for problems loose coroded terminals etc. loose nuetral... check additional outlets nearby, all , power... .. check all bricks attached to your system, power... your problem could be a malfunction due to common mode AC power interference...surge suppressors and retail normal mode filters will not solve a lot of these power issues, common noise(common being nuetral to ground) and frequency interference create a pathway to damage by disrupting the function of digital processors and sensitve equipment such as DVRs, PC... common mode-noise is very destructive, even low voltage spikes over time its possible that a event had taken place that caused your system to fail.... and continues, since you stated you replaced a portion of the system and it is still failing I suggest that you further investigate the signal path and all power related issues starting at the source and look for any and all possibilities of induced electrical noise. Electrical tape and additional shielding is a band-aid, try to hunt down the source otherwise it may haunt you later down the road. One bad cam/connection can disrupt your entire system try removing all cam/connections add one back with a solid signal....add one at a time see if it cleans up till you hit dirt....time consuming but hands on test. It is either your cams/signal/card/pc/ voltage or a combination of all....or tampering has taken place. Maybe look at the PC hardware itself...the video card and related cables any other visual corruption taking place within PC, do a full scan of the puter as well. I really think you can track this down, takes time. Good Luck