Lolo Wolf

One more thing....check the PS to the LCD is it a brick transformer type? If so try swapping out a different one...

Chris, I would add with the ongoing falling economic climate I am sure the impact of new sales and growth has and will be greatly impacted on a global scale not only with CCTV and security markets but all markets in general....I quess time will tell. Regards

A electronics designer who now works public relations told me about this outfit, seems they have a broad data base -source line info on market trends and hard numbers: Market research.com http://www.marketresearch.com/map/prod/1552644.html Also a good read in general is security info watch online publication example on the DIY Market (updated May9th) http://www.securityinfowatch.com/online/Research--Studies-and-Whitepapers/15474SIW321

Ok, reason asking bout the direct to monitor (LCD) bypass Quad with a cam input trying to see if you can perhaps isolate the disturbance to the quad output...other things to consider on the quad are there two outputs? (1-VCR 2-monitor) if you have two try both (swap) and see if there is a difference what kind of out is it BNC-Comp etc..are you looping back to DVR with individual outs or through the monitor out (quad) then controlling the channel feed? If you dont get dirt at the lcd direct from cam Sounds like your problem is somewhere from the quad output something within the termination of the connection to the LCD or on the LCD itself at the plug point. Are you just using the quad as a hardware device to monitor at the remote location or is it for a way to feed a one channel DVR? Sorry for all the questions but aside from actual hardware issues often the actual connects and their paths lead to a solution. Do you have access to a differnt LCD if so see if that behaves the same if it does then there is something going on in the feed (adapter-etc) LCD being inputed with BNC? revisit that connection pay close attention to the LCD input.... any wiggle at the input can you enter the case at the bnc input look for any rubbing or loose connections etc. From what you describe kinda points to the LCD as the culprit for the disturbance because you are certain that all is clean untill that device is put into the path.

Hello Griffon, after revisiting all your paths and they are solid (coax-pwr-terminations ) May very well be as Scorpion described.... however Ive had LCDs hit or miss with quality yet my CRT service monitor was clean.... had a situation where tried 3 highend Viewsonics on a set up all were poor with added noise and bad ringing in a last ditch attempt tried a cheaper Kenmark off the wall had layin around-19 lcd HDTV-TV tuner built in -used the comp in for monitor out of a VAC brick DA and pic cleaned to norm....go figure? Curious is the Quad and monitor powered from the trailer AC is the trailer on its own service or does it share the same feed from the main building maybe by way of a subpanel? Did you try going direct to monitor (LCD) at the trailer bypass the Quad with a individual cam input....if so do you still get noise?

Jim Barrett Wrote: "Do you guys track down all the outlets in a building ckt before you plug equipment into it?". Jim my response simply is no however I do go check the main panel (site survey) prior to accepting the work. I agree and can appricate your "ugly building installs" spent years crawlin around K&T and the countless nightmares of so called "upgrades". Old doesnt always mean bad but oversite is needed with maintaing such systems with extra attention to mechanical condition of all visible paths and connects.... unfortunatly its often what you cant see that kills ya or burns ya down. Regards

Your added info aids me in understanding the situation... As I stated earlier lightning let alone DIRECT strike involves a costly design process that has to be built to each unique site, and frankly in your case with the set of factors (liability, payment contract etc) just make sure you cover yourself IN WRITING and give em what they want. In so far as your part (devices) in this matter UPS along with a AVR I prefer a combo for small set ups there are some decent ones (have used Tripp-lite gear single AVRs and their Heavy Isolator units as well I have stopped using the APC line years ago after some quality issues but thats another conversation...use some of the Cybe-Power units -have done me right ....have several PP2200SWRM2U units in racks and never had to touch em calls for a Nema 5.... the smaller cyber with AVR now called "GreenPower" have worked well for me as well Reliable and your attention to power condition will insure a install less problematic job for sure, most of the call backs Ive encountered in work not done by me is often related to power or mechanical issues (cable placement, termination etc) If the electrician on site is responsible for the AC and conduit, poles masts etc then sounds to me that you are good to go....any inline device for surge protection that does not envolve a hard wired ground I have little faith in even for minor disturbances I have used some of the DITEK line of coax devices with the ground lead. Seems to be that the advice you recieved from your other sources sounds grounded to me...no pun intened. Just make sure that THEIR end (the prime on the JOB) doesnt screw up your end if you know what I mean....nothing worse than a blame game after or before the fact to give you a headache. I am loaded up with CHEMO jus now and thinking back which often I do at times like this trying to take my mind off of it over all the years past back east in Highway and heavy tunnel work and all the BS that used to go down with just tryin to get a job done right. done safe and with pride its no wonder today everything is jus fallin part. Good luck Sir and hope all goes well for you and best of health....in the long run thats really all that matters along with family.

My response was to the Power Quality issues the poster questioned I am not saying not to use suppression devices Its a given, electronic equipment is highly sensitive to Power Quality problems, which can slowly over time and repeated occurances fatique, damage or destroy semiconductor devices, such as microprocessors and dedicated-purpose electronic circuit chips. If the wiring where the poster found issues and he did is not flexible enough to allow separating inductive and switching loads from sensitive loads, may have to add a dedicated, isolated ground circuit for marked for electronic equipment only. The wiring may not be supplying power of correct polarity or providing proper grounding - The building system ground may have high impedance, there exisits a 2-wire system that has had 3-prong outlets installed. perhaps illegal neutral-ground bonds, or ground loops that let unpredictable voltages to float on the grounding circuit. These wiring problems can cause equipment to act strangely Stopping and starting at irregular intervals or work one day disconnect reconnect then work ("Magic") or just plain fail, any of these issues or combination I think will prevent even the greatest latest surge suppressor from protecting your equipment over time.... Really not trying to be argumentive and this issue has been discussed before with some very informitive info on the forum past, since then standards have changed added to the UL 1449 spec as well. All in all... even if it is carved in stone to me its all about guidelines and stones have a funny way of cracking for no apparent reason over time....not to be argumentive but I stand by my statement to the original post....most suppressors require real grounds (working ground) I am glad to read your device is working without issue and you dont have to chase down further problems with the location. Regards

3RDIGLBL wrote: "which by the way is a diesel fuel building" Sir in general, "common" diesel is not considered flammable or combustible (flash points etc) and from what I remember electrical area classification is unnecessary however Any local department, that has power to enforce regulation over your operation (an AHJ) often will not always agree and interpret things differnt. This is why I stated you should ask your electrician bout any local/regional codes pertaining to your install(municipal, county or other factors) The facility can be forced to answer to OSHA, Fire Marshall, even a insurance provider. any of these persons may deem specific methods or demand a a classification. Your earlier post stated a class 2 local....I use the NEC as a refrence and Diesel is not listed as class 2 "The second type of hazard listed by the National Electrical Code are those areas made hazardous by the presence of combustible dust. These are referred to in the Code as "Class II Locations." Finely pulverized material, suspended in the atmosphere, Some typical Class II locations are: Grain elevators; Flour and feed mills; Plants that manufacture, use or store magnesium or aluminum powders; Producers of plastics, medicines and fireworks; Producers of starch or candies; Spice-grinding plants, sugar plants and cocoa plants; and Coal preparation plants and other carbon handling or processing area" heres a good read on Hazardous (Classified) Locations pertaining to electrical work etc http://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/hazloc.html If I am wrong please correct me.... Regards

If you want to pursue the matter can you get access to their panel? (main circuit) what is the type-AMP, condition, wire size of the breaker(s) buss conects tightness and condition of connects in question possible miswire , reverse conects, overload or illegal wire practice etc that is feeding all that mix? did you find differnt size wire in use at the outlets you tested... are there continuous runs of the same type wire or a mess of spliced add ons between receptacles is there a working ground in use on these retrofits? You stated "I then stuck a relatively robust surge protector on the line , plugged my equipment in & left." most suppressors and EFI filters require real grounds. Any that don't are next to useless is there a GFCI outlet present by any chance hidden somewhere upstream before the outlet(s) in question....GFCIs are a legal substitute for a grounded outlet in an existing installation where there is no ground available in the outlet box. but should be labeled and it makes the circuit safe for you it doesn't make it safe for your equipment - you need a ground to make surge suppressors or line filters effective. You were 100% correct to verify the line voltage of any outlet PRIOR to plugging your product into it, after finding their faults most likely unsafe illegal and incorect wiring you documented the noted errors. Low AC line voltage may be a temporary condition due to heavy demand on the utility at peak times, If the building you are in happens to be "at the end of a line" in the distribution system, low AC line voltage may be the "norm" (but it should never be below about 110 VAC).

are you looping? Is the added lcd direct to quad dedicated and then you move signal to DVR in remote location? Or are you just testing pic without interuption direct from quad to monitor (lcd) and getting poor results (noise) check the hi-Z switch on the quad if you have one- also - check to make sure you are at 1 volt peak-to-peak delivered to the quad if you suspect a voltage issue I would revisit the paths, terminations and quality of your RG (coax)

3RDIGLBL wrote: I REALLY wish the customer would have listened to me when I said to put this stuff underground through a conduit. Now we will have all these issues to contend with. I know, the odds are probably low the the line will be struck but the risk is still there. I would at least like to have some safeguards in place. - underground or above both aerial and buried considered- do not get a false sense of safety if you had used buried conduit - - Above-ground are shown to be more at risk from transient-induced voltages. a backflashover from a tower in the vicinity to a conduit is possible - Conductive coupling can take place at the same time as inductive and capacitive coupling. Backflashovers are shown to be a important consideration when designing- Lightning wants to get to ground by the easiest method available. If allowed to advance with no control mechanism through a structure, it may move from grounded system to grounded system “jumpingâ€

sorry for the late reply.... some quick thoughts- surge-protected at the building entry point (outside plant common with telco apps LV etc)- ground bond connector slips under the jacket/ shield and tightend down with a bolt, due to your Hazardous local- special attention needs to be made at entry not to envoke any possible ignition point thru arc by improper wire or splice points as well special attention to proper shielding LV wiring (signal,etc) can be problematic in noise production you may need additonal termination gear to eliminate cross talk and possible interference.... your situation calls for a real evaluation on site for all protection...libility as well safety due to the possible explosive/ignition factors in your local and would be well worth your while to consult a certified source. I am not one to just answer with NEC reads but there are so many varibles pertaining to your application and codes do need to be followed...how they can be interpreted is a argument often based on inspection or local. the only defintive remark I would make is that bonding should be done to the existing building electrode system. I can tell you this Ive replaced pole cams that were so called bullet proof with lighting protection, bonding, surge protected as well UPS, AVR, all the works.... sucessful with minor brown and surge but have come to the conclusion real world nothing is bullet proof - hit or miss..... I am not a lighting expert nor do I profess to be one but have worked around several systems in the field designed by experts and the results with protection due to lighting damage often were limited to certain degrees and some very reliable but Ive seen some vaporized damage to not only devices but complete housings and enclosures, building mechanical etc due to lighting..... in regard to your "lashing" the cable there are percise methods for your aerial application, really specific methods (hardware, spaceing, etc.) not trying to give you a hard time or lecture but it pays to do it right and follow the codes such work done improper can bite and haunt you later big time if there is a problem. good luck. regards and best of health.

Hello Finalsight, sorry for the late reply (just got "outta the woods again"so to speak hospital-ongoing medical problems) but yes go in alert but by no means dont be discouraged by my remarks...you can do very well with subwork and the profit margins can be good as long as you set up in your favor and always protect yourself. Good luck and most of all good health. Regards

the memo cams retail for various models 2 to 400 dependent on features.... you stated that they already started to gut and strip wire whats left? maybe pipe/fixtures, set up a remote hidden cam if you have access to property in a area where you suspect there is value left to pilferage, also maybe a good idea to check that you have legal access to do this on private property unless I am to understand that it is your property? .... scorpions idea of Game camera is good idea but some of the big box store models are really for sportsman and they can be difficult to conceal as well some have a flash that trips... there are some IR ones on the market but overall the cheaper ones Ive seen have poor quality and maybe problematic for evidence. Concealment is key for your application ....they may observe and steal your gear as well....these criminals are pretty quick and fast, a buddy of mine in southern florida (broward county) from the backyard of his neighbors forclosed house had hand rails as well as the pool pump stolen.... they got caught when they returned trying to dismantel the hurricane shutters. with all the abonded property hitting the nation this is a growing problem for sure and the price od copper/steel/metal is a driving force., scrap yard cash is a strong incentive

Try Memo Cams - http://www.vdomain.com/ Video Domain Technologies you may be better off with a quick deployed hidden battery operated evidence collector (pir adjustable-motion detect onboard storage retive SD card) that you can conceal all in one package.... check out their products. I have used with good results the memo cam for gun safes and quick setup on critical trouble spots for clients. They added to their line the MC-Z/Mega 1.2 megapixel unit....:"Images are dated, timed and watermarked for integrity."

Electrical equip class II location -Flammable dust - calls for a NEMA 9 dust-ignition-proof enclosure... if you are terminating to a pwr supply within the hazardous location (combustible dust present or may be suspended in the air) always restrict the use of unapproved equipment in your hazardous location (aside from hot work permits- when it is determined there is no hazard currently present and that conditions will not change while the permit is in effect - make sure your electrican is knowledgeable working within these class rated locations. Double check all equipment after construction (are you working from a approved plan? If so make sure the new equipment that was installed is to plan-spec for the area and properly labeled and periodically inspect to ensure that you have a closed electrical system. A commercial/industrial application within a hazardous location needs special attention to detail for safety. In so far as lighting protection, this topic has been addressed often on the forum in the past, in my opinion soil type, building materials, service type, lightning zone are key to designing a system that can be signed off on, there are several expert lighting protection services in the field... but for camera and related devices entering structure bonding is key, there are too many considerations to go into depth here and really pays to source a expert. There are many arguments some Ive read here on the forum with bleeding charge vrs diverting stikes .... I do know from past tower (line HV and DOT related traffic jobs and battery rooms sub-station contracts for rail transit above and undergroung) we always followed design paper involving air terminals as well Ufer Ground systems.... there are codes for conductors and be wary of quick answers from people telling you the definitive Lighting protection answer... over the years Ive seen em all....diys shoving rods and playin with installs that can do more damage than protection.

Optex DCL-450 combo light/cam has worked for me as well the VX-402 - has two PIRs you can configure a limited detection range... it has a layered detection pattern that can be tweaked to create discrimination of objects in the detection area to your requirements. I used one for a pedestrian gate install together with a auto gate and needed to limit the car traffic trigger (triggers a interior audible alarm and activate DVR rec) Buried sensors can work as well. Check out Optex and other PIR cos, there are quite a few products some pricey but some are well within a small budget that you can target. These products if you take the time and effort to set up can be very reliable although not 100%.

My experience with sub work ( heavy/highway construction) almost always the work is put out to bid, since you were approached direct I would ask for THEIR terms and conditions before you even consider taking on any obligation. Things to consider: 1) subcontract pricing - factor in all overhead costs and additional fees that may be involved with getting the needed certifications or acknowledgements if required 2) Sub-contracting arrangements: Defects liability and prime contractor responsibilty for detail-spec and material layouts 3) Tax issues- The IRS uses 20 common-law rules to determine the classification of employees and subcontractors... sub-contract is subject to the same principles which apply to the formation and operation of any contract. Protect your self and carefully decipher- read all paper before you enter into any obligation this is just a brief and general start....sub work can entail some very complicated sitiuations in so far as liability and charges. Good luck

Aside from product opinion...Pelco past always claimed manufacturing all of its products in the USA....it has been swapping labels for years in its clovis "factory" all the while out sourceing to Korean and china - More BS from another so called American patriotic company....and after all the fanfare the President (David McDonald) goes and sells the company to the french with the loss of hundreds of more american jobs. Seems to be that the only thing left made in America is debt and you can thank the union busting greedy "slave" owner mentality that has has risen its ugly face back into the America against workin men and women that we fought so hard to protect over the years, safety on the job, wages, health benefits and arbitration....the national scope of things today is a direct result of how so called "American" industries have manipulated the government.... our government, to line their pockets. My 2cents

Wachund suggestion is advice well give as well dependent on the pole class - Precast- (Class A- Light Duty Pole AL- Extra Light Duty Pole B medium etc) there are drilling specs and guidelines for handholes and wiring access openings working with commercial light pole/fixture, as well be aware of the wire pull (LV) if it is to be shared with exisiting HV up the hollow raceway.

The aerial work Ive done always powered local at the pole due to long outdoor runs but last remembered Belden has a product for your application as well check with: www.midsouthelectronics.com(478299, RG59 20BC 95%BC. AERIAL. WITH 17AWG STEEL MESSENGER. FOR AERIAL USE, 20 BC, N/A, 0.236" X 0.370", 1000FT REEL[06], BLACK[08]....1000ft-500ft reels/box not cheap but perhaps you can search out a custom cut there are some china Siamese outdoor with messenger Ive seen on the web but another source perhaps contact Olympic www.olympicwire.com Check with electrical supply (not big box stores) for your span/drop clamps, S clips, strain reliefs, galvanized deadends and anyother suspension hardware you may need, are you going to be inspected? If so talk to your electrician bout local codes for your area. Im slow these days due to health considerations but Northen Video has always helped me source products in the past. Good Luck

For Aerial work I always used RG59 WITH 17AWG STEEL MESSENGER (Outdoor rated/gas injected foam polyethylene) there is also RG6U with a 18 AWG solid copper core 95% braid a WITH 16 AWG STEEL MESSENGER on the market... pulled parallel with the core under a polyvinyl chloride jacket .... ask your electrician for details on rigging and info on grounding a mast .... outside entry considerations etc (use outdoor rated only-Polyethylene recommended for all outdoor whereever cable is exposed to moisture, sunlight and any abrasion....do not use indoor rated cable for aerial or DB or even in conduit ...the electrical and mechanical characteristics will fail over time and haunt you later....

Agree......I can appreciate your views on the subject of lawyers/fees etc.....avoiding courts and all the mess....if only people realized that the only thing that really matters in the end is good health but such is life....have a good day: regards

From what I read of the posters problem seems to be past the point of a rational sit down....lawyers are involved already and protection orders etc... I just suggest that the poster heed caution in any contact without witness at this point for his own protection... in other circumstances I would agree with you.