Lee Tracey

Reference opinions from " Sunny Kim". There is, so far as I have discovered, a single reference design from HiSilicon and or Techpoint. This reference design has been adopted by about 60 Chinese manufacturers. Apart from differences in the Gerber layout of the p.c.b. they are all the same BOM except for the Hikvision. The common setup is: HiSilicon Hi-3521 H264 Codec Processor. Techpoint TP-2802 4 Channel 1080p Receiver. Intersil TW-2964 Video Decoder. The Hikvision has a chip marked KY-2013 where the Hi-3521 would normally sit but the chip has the mechanical image of a HiSilicon SOC. I cannot find any reference anywhere of a chip called a KY-2013 so I am sure that it is a chip from some other source with a phoney Hikvision legend - almost certainly from HiSilicon. It could be a modified version of the 3521 or a modified 3535. The only other obvious variation on the Hikvision is that while all the others use a common DC plug and socket and derive the power for the hard drive from the p.c.b. rail the Hikvision has a four pin DIN plug and socket and provides an isolated 12VDC supply to the hard drive. The "RAINBOW" interference problem, as far as I have discovered to-date, only appears where the mains supply is 50 Hz but is NOT known to areas where the mains supply is 60 Hz and as the majority of sales has been to North America the majority of users do not know of the problem. That suggests that the "TRIGGER" is within the 50 Hz cycle - but Hikvision has solved the problem as their HDTVI DVR does not show it even with the cameras that are used with the DVR's that do show it - and all HDTVI DVR's that I have obtained are LOCKED to 60 Hz and cannot be menu changed to 50 Hz. The menu offers selection of PAL or NTSC but the 60Hz stays for both as does the RAINBOW. But the RAINBOW fades after a few days as far as the human eye is concerned but can be detected by test gear. Finally to Sunny Kim: who do you work for?

I am not sure why this debate on cables arrived in this section of the forum relative to "RAINBOW" interference from HDTVI DVR's. The problem arises and all my experience with the problem has been on my workbench using RG59 cables of two metre lengths and all connected to a common single earth. Out of curiosity I did also make the set up with 20 metre and 100 metre RG59 cables and the interference was exactly the same. The problem has turned out to be the HiSilicon HI-3521 H.264 Codec Processor and the FIX is to use the HiSilicon HI-3535 H.264 Codec Processor. However there is no FIX ( that I have discovered ) for existing p.c.b.'s using the 3521. Hikvision must have discovered this problem early as their HDTVI DVR is immune from the "Rainbow" but uses the HiSilicon 3535. With the Hikvision DVR this use of the 3535 is concealed as the SOC top plate carries the Hikvision name and the reference 2013 and the heatsink is glued to the SOC by a very powerful glue. Removing the heatsink destroyed the SOC and the further work to separate the top plate of the SOC from the heatsink took a lot of effort and technique. Once separated the legend on the SOC top plate could not be read by the human eye. I leave others to figure out why such a powerful glue was used and not heat sink compound and a different fixing method. What triggers the "Rainbow" with the 3521 is still a mystery and why it gradually vanishes ( to the human eye ) over a few days is also a mystery though Hikvision obviously think the hard drive is involved. On their p.c.b. with the 3535 they have used a four pin DIN for the 12VDC supply thus providing the 12VDC supply to the hard drive totally isolated from the p.c.b. DC rail. Some users of the DVR's with the 3521 have reported to me that providing separate power supplies to each camera solves the problem. Unfortunately this is not a reliable FIX as investigation exposes the inclusion of TIME between first discovering the "Rainbow" and actually obtaining and fitting the separate power supplies - the fading effect has taken place and this is being mistaken for a separate power supply fix. My personal opinion is that the "trigger" is somewhere in the 50 Hz power supply as I have not heard from any North American installer who has seen the "Rainbow". All the HDTVI DVR's I have examined are LOCKED to 60 Hz. Lee Tracey - dvrdigital@gmail.com

I have now discovered the source of the rainbow interference with HDTVI DVR's. It is the HiSilicon HI-3521 SOC specified from the BOM that HiSilicon sold along with the reference design. Luckily for Hikvision they spotted the fault early on and dropped the 3521 in favour of an alternative. Apart from this change and a few minor inconsequential mods the Hikvision circuit is identical to the original HiSilicon reference design. The mystery still exists of what actually triggers the 3521 to generate the rainbow and why it actually fades over about 30 days. Lee Tracey - dvrdigital@gmail.com

I have discovered an interesting problem with HDTVI but have so far failed to discover the cause so I need help. The problem is interference on a four channel HDTVI DVR and four HDTVI cameras.The interference is a vertical line of blocks of many colours that moves across the screen horizontally. I have eliminated ground loop and fluorescent. My only remaining guess is that the frequency of the DVR DAC is interfering with the frequency of the cameras and my reason for this guess is that at night when the cameras switch on their infra-red LED's the interference vanishes - possible change of camera frequency for infra-red operation.

SunnyKim: The S2 is the very latest SOC from Ambarella. I tried to attach the specification of the 4K camera that is being built for me now but I had it in Word docx and this forum would not accept it so have converted it to PDF and will try again. However PDF is not allowed either so do not know how to provide it.

HI SunnyKim: What is the name of your company that will produce the 4K SOC? If I set out to design such a camera I would use an Ambarella S2 SOC. - right now ( Sept 2014 ) I do not know of any other processor able to handle the task.

I agree with SunnyKim in regard to H.264 and H.265 but he is wrong about only a 6 IPS camera being available in 4K. I have ordered a 4K ( 3840 X 2160 ) 4K camera which does 30 IPS ( images per second ) frames do not exist anymore in digital video. And I have been promised VMS that will record and display at the full rate of ONE camera record but not display at the same time on an Intel NUC PC and I have a 4K monitor. I am sure that the potential motherboard and graphics card etc is out there I just do not have that knowledge at this moment. Adventach have proposed one of theirs that will do the job but claims are one thing and reality another.

Here are some figures to work from: 4K video IP camera at 3840 X 2160 at 30 IPS will put out raw video of 5921 Mbit/s H,264-10 compression will compress this to about 23 Mbits/s 24 hours recording at this rate will require about 241 GB. So the PC built to work with more than one 4K IP camera will need to multiply the above by the number of cameras. Until H.265 becomes commonly available the chances of building a PC that can handle the above recording and also display the same quality playback at the same time is probably a pipe dream - VMS PLayer will be needed to replay on a totally different PC from the video removed from the recording video. VMS software that can reduce the 4K stream to CIF or close will hopefully allow dual recording and playback. Who amongst this blog readers has the knowledge to tell us which motherboard with which processor and with which graphics card can do most for a PC to handle multiple 4K cameras ?

I have further bad news for 4K camera lovers. After extensive research I am convinced that no NVR exists that can handle 4K cameras. The cheapest 3840 X 2160 @30IPS camera that I have found so far is £540 delivered in the UK. Axis UK price is £682. So all we can do at the moment is buy a 4K monitor and watch as the video goes by but records in something much less.

Probably not, but curiosity sometimes gets the better of us. On the other hand one could cover a much larger area with a single camera and wide FOV lens thereby saving having to fit four 1080 cameras. A while back I built a special "one-off" camera for UK Police that could watch an area outside a railway station and while the storage had to be on site it was possible to electronically post zoom and obtain a clear drivers face and the numberplate at over 100 yards. The frame rate was only one per second but one was all we needed for intelligence and evidence. I still have a still from this camera if anybody is interested in a copy. Lee Tracey - dvrdigital@gmail.com

The comment from - Brenning - above is interesting. If there are any in addition to me, interested to purchase one of the cameras I have identified, then please contact me with your email address. We can obviously get a better price if I can quote a quantity. Once I have your email I will send you a full specification on the two I have discovered and once I know how many then I will tell you what price is being asked. The price I will get will be Ex works Shenzhen so if there are a number in the UK and a number in the USA then we will need a single purchaser/shipping import address for the USA - I will do it for the UK. The 3840 X 2160 4K version may not be any cheaper than the Axis version but it may have a better specification - for instance it has automatic back focus. Lee Tracey - dvrdigital@gmail,com UK

Interesting that so many of you guys have sussed out the main stream of camera manufacturing has decided that 4K is 3840 X 2160 when we all know it is not. However as we are but minions in the commercial pool I think we have to accept that the CCTV industry standard understanding of 4K will be, and is, 3840 X 2160. The Axis price for such a camera appears to centre round the $1,000 mark, I also know of another China based manufacturer who will sell you a 4 K ( 3840 X 2160 ) also for about $1,000. However I have discovered one Chinese Manufacturer producing a " 4K " camera of 3072 X 2048, but is quoting a price of about $440. The loss in resolution is not so bad when considered against the high price drop - The lower spec is based on a 6 megapixels sensor and the 3840 X 2160 on a 12 megapixel sensor. I am trying to acquire one of these cameras in order to discover how many " ONVIF" NVR's it will work with. If I succeed I will post the data.

I noted the comments about waiting for a 4K IP camera to hit the market and the comment about a 10M camera being available for £300 - the 10M at £300 man has his knickers in a twist and should take some lessons from the guy who first answered him. The 10M only applies to a STILL image and not the video stream. The higher resolution of 4K is a function of the SOC - in the case of Hero it is the Ambarella S2 SOC. and one only needs a 3 megapixel sensor to get 4K streams at 30 IPS. A number of companies have Ambarella S2 designs in their R & D department and 4K will become the "MUST HAVE" of 2015 - expensive at first but well worth if bought from a reliable company. As for the £300 I think the early versions, from the quality manufacturers that can be relied on, will cost closer to £700 initially - though Adata is aiming for an Ambarella S2 x 4K POE IP Camera to sell at round the £480 mark. You should see the first reliable models on sale December 2014

Anybody have any experience and comments on QVIS software as supplied by Adata Limited. I know most of their products are Dahau original but they claim to have this in-house QVIS VMS