nitronick

Hey guys! Glad I found this forum. I need help setting up an affordable survellience rig. Here's the scenario.... I have a potential client that has some temp employs stealing from him. He needs video monitoring and recording of the activity in his ticket booths and entry gates. He has only one event during the year that last for nine days, so it would be cost prohibitive for him to set up a permanent system. There are five gates and six ticket booths at various locations on the grounds, so that means 11 cameras. This is an outdoor event, and the furthest cameras would be no more than 1/2 mile from the wireless access point. Great line of site from all gates to the AP/antenna position. I can't wire up the place, and I am thinking I could probably sell this wireless setup at other venues I have contracts with. I would need to record the feed from all 12 cameras at the same time. The video doesn't have to be HD , but I will need to be able to identify faces, and have adequate frame rate to see them putting anything in their pockets, etc. Hard drive space is cheap, so that's no problem and I could burn the video to DVDs at the end of the day. I already have the following items that I use with my wireless bar code scanners, though those will not be used at this time. The only thing chewing up bandwidth will be the cameras.: Intermec WA21 2.4ghz Wireless Access Point RadioLabs 1 watt Booster Amp RadioLabs Wireless Hi-Gain Network Antenna The access point is set up as a DHCP server. I use my scanners quite a bit during the summer, and do not have any problem communicating with the laptop database through the access point at the distances listed above. I have done a little research and came up with the following that I hope will work. Hawking Technology Wireless Network Camera And if needed to boost the signal, I could connect this to the camera and point it toward the AP antenna. Hawking Technology 2.4GHz Hi-Gain WiFi Dish Antenna I can get the cameras for +/- $100 each. Considering I will have to buy 12 of these(1 for backup), I don't want to spend the $ unless I know for certain it will work. I'm sure I would be getting higher quality cams at a later date, but I need to get this up and running first. Don't really think I need any pan/tilt ability. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry. Can't post any pictures for the next 10 days/10 posts! Thanks, Mitch

Yes, it will be an IP based solution. Our company is an event consulting and management firm. As an offshoot of that, we implemented a real time wireless scanning bar coded ticket system. The wireless camera setup was something always in the back of our minds as an addition to the ticketing, but this is the first client that actually brought the subject up. The facility in the pictures is located in Texas. They have a nine day event every year, and his ticket workers are stealing quite a bit of cash from him and the gate workers are letting people in without paying. If I can get this up and running, it would be a system I could sell to our other clients. Hence why I need to keep the hard wiring down to a minimum.

Well, you are better off than me because I have done NONE of these! The system is not permanent to the facility. One of my needs is to be completely wireless, or at least all of the cams being wireless between them and the APs. A couple in your shot was wired. I had a look at your site....where in Oklahoma are you? I'm in Edmond!

Hey Wireless! Check your PMs!

I'm not sure. X is the coliseum. It is the tallest structure on the grounds. I would guess it is around 50' tall. Maybe more. I believe there are air conditioners that I can mount a mast to. I'm not sure how I would go about fine tuning the antennae once it is in place. I think building 1 and building 2 will block my line of sight to cam positions 1 and 2. I have no idea of their height. There are also some trees blocking cam position 2. I don't know if that will make a difference or not? Mounting an 360 degree array on this building, my other concern would be cam positions 3 and 4. Since they are so close to the building, I think I would have to mount antennae on the edge of the building looking down towards those positions. That kind of kills the 360 degree setup. What do you think of my original idea of mounting 2 45 or 90 degree sectors on the office? Do you think the distance is going to kill that idea? I studied the manual for the AP. Other than what I have listed, I couldn't find any information of the data rate.

To do 360 degree rooftop coverage, I would have to locate the antenna array and APs to one of the buildings closer to the center of the grounds. I will lose line of sight for a couple of the more important cams. I have no problems using higher compression, as long as I can identify faces. I will have a more indepth look at the AP information to see about the data rate.

Another thing..... I want to use the highest resolution as I can. Using the free IPCameraCalc I found online, I am coming up with the following numbers: Resolution 640x480 Med Compression (MJPG 20) FPS 10 Multiply that times 11 cameras, and I am coming up with 40.48 mbits/second. Here are the specs from my Intermec WA21 wireless AP: Under ideal conditions the max is 54mbps. Do you think I am running it too close? Should I try and implement 2 APs to lessen the throughput per AP?

Well, let's see if this will work... Here's a picture of the grounds where I will be implementing my system. The dimensions are 1620ft North to south by 640 east to west, so I have over 2K + feet to the far cams. Hopefully you can see where I labeled the camera locations with red letters. B = Ticket Booth G = Gate O = Office The ticket booths will have a cam mounted inside somewhere so that I have a clear picture of the occupants and the cash drawers. The gates will have a cam mounted (probably on a nearby light pole) to see if the workers are allowing anyone in without a ticket. Obviously, the office(lower right corner) is where I will be set up. If things go as I hope, I may be able to hardwire my server to the AP, and skip using that wireless link. I envision mounting two 90 degree sectors on the roof of the office, along with the AP. One antenna aiming toward the two gate/booth entries along the right side of the picture, and the other covering the others. From the looks of it, all cams would be in a pretty much straight line from their respective antenna. I am worried about picking up the cams that will be mounted inside the ticket booths. Do you think I will need to run a cable and mount a small directional antenna on the roof of the booth? Well, there it is....Any thoughts? Criticisms? Suggestions? Thanks, Mitch

Well, it's still not letting me post a pic...

Post # 10 to post a pic!

Even using something like a yagi at the camera end pointed toward the AP/antenna? The AP does have dual radios and each has a primary and secondary antenna connection. I suppose I could get directional antennas(antennai? ). Most of my distances from the AP/antenna are going to be 1000' or less, but there is that one at the far end of the grounds.....

No. Everything I do now with my bar code scanners, and everything I need to do with the cameras will be wireless. I will not be connected to a hardwired LAN at any time. The cameras will be positioned at the gates and inside the ticket booths. I will mount the AP, booster amp and omni-directional antenna on top of the building that has a clear line of sight to all of the cameras. I will have my server/monitor in an office somewhere on the grounds that will have line of sight to the antenna as well. If need be, I can also connect an external antenna to each camera(something directional, like a yagi or a small dish) to aid in getting the signal to the AP antenna.

My APs are not hardwired to a LAN. The only communication happening is between the scanners and the laptop running the database via the wireless AP. I envision the camera setup being the same, if that's possible.

OK, Thanks Wireless. It looks like I need to go ahead and secure those 5ghz APs and pick up a few cameras. As I said before, I have no aversion to buying higher quality cameras in the future, but I think I need to stick with the lower priced stuff until I get this off the ground and running. Do you think the monitoring/recording software that comes with these cameras will work for now, or should I look into something like the Milestone software I have read about here? Do I really need to connect to a separate LAN, or wouldn't the dozen or so cameras and the recording/monitoring server be it's own LAN via the wireless AP? I don't see any need for any other connectivity outside of the cameras and the recording/monitoring server. Again, forgive my ignorance. The wireless scanner rig I inherited was complete when I came on board, and I didn't receive much training before our VP died leaving this all in my lap. It has been a very hectic year! Thanks, Mitch

BTW, the Intermec APs I would be using are weatherproof, good for operating in extreme cold(with an optional heater) and heat.

Forgive my stupidity, all of this was thrust upon me about a year ago when our VP died and we had contracts to fulfill. I have a constant headache from all of the knowledge I have had to acquire in a very short period of time! Are you saying the cameras do not have to transmit at 5ghz as well? So I could use the cheaper cams with the 5ghz AP?

Thankx wireless. I had a look at your site. Very cool. What if I stepped it up to 5ghz APs? I have access to 6 or so of them. I realize I would have to then get 5ghz cameras, but....

Well, I would be the "owner". And I have no problems spending the money to make this work. I just want to make sure it WILL work to my satisfaction before I plunk down said money. Wireless video monitoring is something we have had in the back of our mind to accompany our wireless bar code ticketing system. It became a priority when one of our potential clients asked about it. Provided I can put the system together, I have no doubt he will contract with us to provide the system. We already have the industrial wireless access point, 1 watt signal booster and antenna(listed above). I wanted to include photos and links, but I cannot do that for 10 days. Provided the items I already have will handle the bandwidth, I just need help selecting cameras and recording/monitoring software that will handle 12 or more cameras.