cybrmartian

I have built Pcs since Dos 3.0 so I have experienced every OS change since then. I have been in the fronline for all these OS and tested them before my customer asked for them. Sure, I' older now, but I'm hoping that I'm not a grumpy old man afraid of changes yet The thing with Vista is that it eats resources, is very unfriendly to third part software and as Rory said, slower than Xp. Customers with little computer experience have a big deal of trouble of handling Vista. I had customers turning down my laptops because I can't get laptops with XP any more. Nah, I think I'll give embedded a second chance. The prices shown in this thread is much lower then I remember. If I can get those prices in Sweden the problem is solved. As I said in my post I agree that XP is a better operating system but as of right now the best and I emphasize MICROSOFT Windows operating system that is the as stable as Microsoft can get it is Windows 2000 then it would be Windows XP. I agree completely that Windows vista is a Complete system resource Hog and i have not seen too many reasons or enhancements over Windows XP that would warrant changing to windows Vista over XP and If I did not have to deal with any Windows Vista machine in my line of work which part of my business is Computer Consulting I would not have the OS on one of my systems at home. Out of the Box what I see on vista is it is More Graphical but as anyone knows you can make XP look just like Vista, Ok it has a sidebar ( I don't use mine it is closed) which is a resource hog itself, Hey they changed the Start button to a Round button they now call an "ORB" ohhh yeah and don't forget all the security and stuff like that that they added so they can make sure your computer is running better for you. Now don't get me wrong that all sounds good on paper but now what do you have a very graphical system with little gadgets and an ORB that Microsoft makes sure you are running correctly and constantly monitors that needs a lot more memory and CPU resources than you needed with XP which can doo all the same stuff. All I meant to say in my post before is windows XP had the same problems when it came out but with time the things got better and it is now stable. I remeber Programs that would not run under Windows XP which seems to be a big issue with Vista but most of the major Software manufacturers are making thier software compatible with Vista now which I believe is literally crazy myself that everytime Microsoft gets a whim to release software the third party apps have to scramble to conform to MS but that is how it is. When Vista first started coming out i have a few customers that always want the latest and greatest and they all called and wanted Vista of course I had to explain to them I needed a list of all the software they run so i can see if it would even run on Vista. The main problem I had since most of my Commercial customers use Quickbooks and various other systems is they would not work under Windows vista so I had to tell them that is how it is until thier Third party vendor releases an update they can't use Vista with it. Of course you always have the customers who want to use thier new Windows Vista Laptop they bought for use at Home and use it at work as well and you have to tell them they can't use most of thier software for work on it even with Windows XP compatibility mode turned on. While I am on the laptop side let me say this. I DO NOT think Vista should be installed on any Laptop. here is my reasoning. Vista requires a lot more resources and yes memory is cheap for desktops and CPU's for desktops are reasonable. but a laptop is supposed to be a portable lightweight PC which everything costs a lot more and with Vista needing about twice as many resources to run the same as XP would you more than double the price of a good laptop. unless you are getting a laptop that is top of the end and i only know a few commercial accounts and a few individual people that buy the most expensive top of the line laptops every year then Vista is not for you on a laptop. My laptop I run all my important stuff to Invoicing software and use it at customer locations and I can not afford it to be unstable or run slow and I do not have the Most expensive Laptop because I do take it out to customer locations and it does get scrathes and subject to abuse I have been building PC's for a long time and I still have a copy of Windows 2.0 on 5 1/4 Floppy for nostalgia reasons of course. and Hands down my OS of Choice is Linux and the only reason i use anything else is because my Livelyhood demands it. I have a BS is Computer Science with MCSE, A+, CCIE Cert and others plus experiance which is more important than any piece of paper and i will admits Vista would be the very last OS I would tell someone to get on thier PC but as long as Microsoft is making software people are going to buy it because "it is made by Microsoft and they never make anything bad" right? Windows 7, Now you think that it is going to be a lot better than Vista. it will still be a resource hog just as Vista and by then Vista may be stable but still a resource hog. Here is what is happening. MS is going to keep building these operating systems so we have got to get used to it and hopefully every one on here will hit a Lotto somewhere and be able to buy systems every time a NEW OS comes out so we can increase the CPU and other System resources to install the new OS that cost's more and more with every release. I can not believe no one has mentioned the Price of Windows Vista. That should be a good deterant also. between $199 to $319 depending on what version. Only software i know that cost more than that is business related like Accounting, Cad, Design and software like that. If it were around $99 it woud be a little better. Sorry about the long posts Matt P.S. Geovision can you make your cards run on Linux? That would make my life a lot better.

You know the same thing happened when XP first came out. I am not one to stand behind Microsoft and I don't think my MCSE Cert can be taken away for that but i will say that every time a new operating system comes out there is always a large group that do not want to change or do not even want to give it a try because of what they have heard or a first release right out of the box experiance. I believe if you remeber back in october of 2001 when XP Came out it had the same fanfare as Vista and had a lot of problems as well b ut windows has had that reputation since windows 1.0 came out in 1985 and possibly before that but no body really talked about it as widely because we only had BBS Message boards, Group meetings of computer users at small meeting halls and large conferances just starting up. As time goes by in the next year or so i believe Windows vista will become more stable if it is still considered unstable even after the release of Service pack 1 recently. to tell you the truth and any True computer person will tell you that if you want reliabilitty and stability then MS Windows is not the way to go but the problem lies with the software manufacturers making all the software for Microsoft. If they would make more software for the Linux platform that the typical end user would like such as the mainstream games and stuff then linux would be as popular. Myself I personally run a couple of diffrent operating systems right now to include Windows Server 2003, Windows XP Pro, Windows Vista Ultimate and of course I am also running a linux server and have Linux and Windows XP installed as a Dual boot on one PC. I garuntee that as long as the manufacturers keep making the software to run under Windows then windows will still be at the top and we will have this discussion every time a new version comes out which means we will be talking about the same situation in 2010 when the next version is slated to make it appearance and people will be stating they are not going to move away from Vista. I agree though and do not agree about installing a DVR on a Vista machine but I have done it a few times at customer request but I can tell you it was a very basic stripped down version almost looked like Windows 2000 was installed. Have not had a problem with them yet and have not had a problem with a GV-1480 or GV800 I have been running locally for about 6 months either on Windows Ultimate. When Geovision makes the software and cards run under Linux I WILL make that switch without blinking. Now do not get me wrong i am just staing things that I see i am not backing up Microsoft nor am I saying anyone here is wrong in what they are saying. I may be completely wrong myself but nobaby can be correct all the time. Matt

I would check various places online for versions of XP Pro 64bit it is widely available I believe newegg even sells an OEM version. Microsoft Operating systems I have tested a GV-1480 on are as follows. Windows 2000 - Works Great, Stable system, MS no longer supports but who cares. Windows XP Home 32 Bit - No problems whatsoever only diffrence between XP Home and Pro is supposadly being able to join a domain and use Remote desktop but there is a way to get XP home to join a domain and much better methods of Remote desktop. Windows XP Pro 32 Bit - Same as Above but can join a domain out of the box and use MS remote Desktop. Windows XP 64Bit - Do not try with Geovision cards. Windows Vista Home Premium 32 Bit - i have not tried anything below Home premium but i would assume Basic would even work without issue. I normally shut off all extra graphical enhancements on my PC based DVR's and strip most of the installed systems down to bare essentials My belief the system is built to be a CCTV system and that is it's task. I know they say you can surf the web on the same system and use it as a normal everyday computer but I do not tell my customers that since as soon as they get some spyware or a virus guess what they want to blame. but I have not had a problem with the GV-1480 card on Vista Home premium. Windows Vista business & Ultimate - Currently what i am using at my office and at home with my GV-1240 at home and GV-1480 at the Office. i should not have to tell you that there is not much of a diffrence between these two versions of Vista that will affect the GV much at all if anything between any of the Vista versions. What I use for my customers is Windows XP Pro 90 percent of the time with all updates and stripped of extra useless stuff and have not had any probelems. I use the New OS's myself just for testing purpouses so i know what to expect when a customer MUST HAVE Vista or some other phenomenon like that which does happen but I have not had a problem. Of course on my vista systems they have 4 Gig DDR2 at least ( ram is so cheap anyway) and they are both running AMD Dual Core processors I believe one is only a 3800 and no problems to speak of. Matt

I just did an Install on a couple of a customers machines and everything seemed to go well. As far as getting the Remote software there are a few way to do that if you look in the installation directory i believe the name of the folder is WEBTEMP and the subfolder would be "Cab" but you can also just type in the IP address of the newly updated DVR and it will download the new software. I am using Vista Ultimate and have 8.12 already installed and it installed 8.2 as another program and not an update. The PAP and PIP would be great with a Megapixel IP camera. I have seen the Demo's and it looks like it would work great will have to test it when I get a Megapixel camera in next week. I will let you know. Still trying to play with the Panoramic I have not figured out where to set that up yet. but I have not been playing with it too much been too busy. The Remote software is Great with the Ability to save multiple Host's in a group and to record to the Local drive is Excactly what the Customer i already upgraded wanted. He has 6 Car lots and he like the Remote software rather than the Control center. A little more user friendly for him I guess.

Ok here is the Scenario I have a Customer who already had a very bad very old 16 Channel Standalone that I recently upgraded to a 6480 EXP and everything is great he loves the system. I normally use Geovision systems myself but figured I would give this card a try and if it was too terrible or he did not like it I would put in a Geovision card for him. Needless to say so far so good and the card is working like a charm for him. Only one Issue. He has a spot monitor out going to a Monitor in his Store front for his customers to see. ( I normally set just a entry camera on the Customer display but this customer wants all his cameras to Autoscan Which I suggested against but the Customer is always Right and that is what he wants) Here is the problem He want's them all to Autoscan EXCEPT 1 camera which is the camera to his safe (Obvious Reson). I have not found out how to do this. I can put in a fixed display which I initially did for him and not have that one displayed but he wants the cameras the be full screen and autoscan which it allows, but does not allow you to choose not to display one camera. I have went into the camera setup and set the camera not to display but it is enabled and is recording and It is still displaying on the spot monitor. Any Suggestions on how I get this to do it through the software without having to do it externally via seperate hardware? You think it would be able to do this. Matt

i found the Check boxes but they are all greyed out I knew where that stuff was if i could uncheck that I am sure it would not be a problem but something has it greyed out somehow. i can go into the advanced but if you do that and set autoscan they are greyed out there as well. I could do a fixed and set it up but he wants this thing to be one camera on the screen at a time and to autoscan. Matt

This may not be what he is looking for but I can bring up my Cameras on my Blackberry Pearl. It is not live streaming video but I get a picture of what is going on and to tell you the truth I am not going to want to sit and watch my small cell phone screen with a live video. usually if I need to check a snapshot is all I need or I can connect through a remote PC somewhere and see a live streaming view. If they want to see a live streaming view then tell them they need another phone for that as far as I know the blackberry is not built for that. I got mine for the Email ability and Sync ability with MS Outlook and my Business apps. That is where the blackberry is Tried and true. Matt

I am only about 2 hours away from you. Handle mainly Ocala/Gainseville area but sometimes venture over the crystal river on the east coast and Daytona one the west. Nothing down in your area as of yet enough local for me. Did install a 32 Camera system at a Game ranch in South Africa 2 years ago. Actually contracted the work out. Went over there for a few weeks to watch everything get installed and make sure things were done correctly. Intresting install really. They could not use Cables in the ground because of Distance First and Animals would dig them up and could not run them on Poles because Girraffs seem to be a little tall plus distance was also an issue. We went with RF Wireless and Erected 40 foot towers so to speak with Parabolic Dishes. At the Game lodge where everything was to be located for viewing and recording we erected another tower with all the recivers. You try to explain to an South African that normally only installs TV's that 15 degrees at 2 miles distance is a pretty wide range. Now you may ask was there electricity at the locations where the cameras were. Only at one location and that was the game lodge where the DVR sat. For power we used Stricly Solar power at each camera location with Infrared cameras in housing to protect them from Monkeys and they still have problems time to time. Never had a problem with power at any location at any time throughout the year I always like to err on the side of caution when it comes to that since you do not want them to lose transmitter or camera power between 5 and 6 AM because the power drained and the sun is not Up yet. They use the system to monitor Animal patterns and locations and since this was a hunting lodge they actually make a DVD with the whole thing for each of thier customers. You want to talk about having to deal with some problems and issues and making sure all your planning is in order BEFORE things happen that was a good example. had to make sure the power supplies in everything was correct, Had to get everything in PAL instead of Normal NTSC for me. Had to contact thier goverment to make sure the Frequencies for the Transmitters were OK to use since even though we were in the middle of nowhere. Had to make sure I did not get eaten by any large hungry animals and Only drink Bottle water. There is not radio shack or anything like that there and closest town was a 6 hour drive and they did not have too much in the way of technology so to speak. Enough rambling for me about that. For our next conversation we will thouroughly confuse the newbie to installation and talk about using sattelites (sp) to transmit secure encrytpted video signals half way around the world. Matt

I started off Installing surveillance systems in the US Military about 12 years ago now I have my own business and let me tell you if you are getting into the business make sure everything is very specific as to what you are to do and what the customer is to do. Little things the customer may think you are going to do can end up cutting into your profit margin a lot when they come and ask you why you did not do something they THOUGHT you were going to do. As has been said make sure your responsibilities are in writing as much as possible I give every customer a Proposal that includes a decscription of all the Item they purchased from me and how many of each with accurate descriptions of them as well and sometimes pictures and bruchures if possible. Good manufacturers such as Bosch and such have a brochure for just about every product they make. This assures you that the customer is very clear on what they are getting as far as product goes. Along with that Description I also give another Page or pages depending on the job that spells out everything in the installation and this help my techs with the install as well. I pretty much lays out every part of the labor. And when bidding out an install after you have done a few you will know what it is going to take to get 16 or 32 camera wires from the roof of a flat Roof cement block shopping center into the tiny little closet they want you to install the whole system in while standing on your head and make it look good as well. In this list I list everything from specifics on runnings any special cable run such as wire running in conduit, Also mounting of the cameras, focusing the cameras, hooking up the power, installing compression connectors or crimp type I am specific on these things so the customer can NOT come back after the install and say "I thought you were going to use Twist on Connectors?" list as much as you can. Also make sure you state that any additionals are Extra such as they want a cable ran a certain way after you begin and now you have to Drill through a 24" Solid concrete wall and use conduit and take more time. I usually have a sections of things they need to provide such as Power at the DVR/Camera Power location, and any thing they may need to do. Any network connections at the location be specific if they want thier "Computer Guy" to do that instead of us. Also on that note make sure you get the phone number of thier "Computer Guy" or IT department and talk to him as well to make sure he will be vailable when you need him and that he knows what you are talking about when you say I need port 3550 forwarded to the DVR's IP. I have run into some real winners there some of the customers have a computer guy that is only good at formatting and re-installing windows and can only set up a network if he can use the automated network setup in windows. I could go on for hours about that. If they do not have an IT person it is a good chance for you to do it yourself that way there is NO Excuse if you are comfortable doing that. I hate people who will not give you the check because you are waiting for thier IT to learn how to do thier job. Last but not least I give the customer and Invoice and they sign and date all three forms before anything is done at all. That way when something falls through you can show them the paper they signed and agreed to and you can be done with your job and go on to the next. Sorry about being long winded. As far as pricing the job out If it is just an install which I have only done one Install only quote but it involved taking down equipment I already installed at one location and installing it at another location (Ran all new cable of course on that one). I usually always give one set price for the installation as I pretty much know how long it will take after looking at the location and you always run into something just be prepared and have the right tools. I have installed 8 Camera systems in 4 hours and had 8 camera system take 2 days always err on the side of caution when estimating time if you think you MAY be able to get it done in one day tell them 2 days so they are not too mad when you have to come back the next day but if you get done early they are normally happy. Another Caution NEVER use THIER labor force under no means always turns out to be a rpoblem when they arrange anything such as labor, equipment or anything. And never let the customer HELP you install. I quoted a job out 16 cameras installed. We got to the site we were going to install this system in 2 days with 4 guys working when we got there the customer came out with his guy and procedded to tell us what to do. Not a good situation at all never let that happen trust me he thought we were just going to be his labor force. My crew, My checks pay them, they drove my Vehicles there I tell them what to do and take resposibility for them. Customer do not always know the best ways to do things either or how to install the system or they would have just done it themselves. That job ended up taking 2 extra days and 1,500 feet more cable because I was constantly having to tell him to leave us to do the install. He was trying to monitor how much cable was being run to each camera and wanted NO WASTE at all and figured he could save 500 feet of cable and have it knocked off the bill at the end. Well when I quote a system out I figure how much cable I need then add 10% and that is what they are quoted. You never know what you will run into and once you get up in the attic or find the double concrete block wall with a steel inner core you can't get through with a Plasma cutter and it is easier to go a diffrent route. To make a long story short he was surprised at the end when I added 2 more days of labor and 1,500 feet more of cable to the bill because HE helped and would not let the Pro's do it (Well maybe not pro's but I would like to think of myself as at least adequatly knowledgable). nightmare job! In the end you need to Make the customer happy and if you have it in writing you will not have to take any money out of your wallet to do something not expected or quoted and you can explain that and offer to do it at an extra cost or if they throw a real fit at least get the cost of goods to do it. Word of mouth is the best advertising and I even got 5 more referrals off the Nightmare job above. It's Fun! and there is always 10% percent of your customers that make it more intresting. Matt North Central Florida

I have seen some reall good jobs done in my area. I seem to think half of my work involves fixing other peoples stupidity. Most of the things are common sense but some you just have to wonder how qualified these people are. I have seen Indoor cameras mounted outside with Silicone Caulk all over them for protection. When i asked the business owner why they let the installer do that since he told me he thought it was wrong he told me the installer told him it was in "Code". I ended up having to reinstall all 32 cameras with appropriate ones. Another time I went to do an upgrade which included running new cables and the whole works and taking out all the existing equipment to include the cables. The previous installer decided I guess it would be fun to install all his cable the hard way. This older building has a drop ceiling with insulation laying right on top of the Ceiling tile. The Winner before my company ran all his cable between the Ceiling tile and insulation. This insulation was probably at least 15 years old and had all the normal Funk you would expect a building that had a leaking roof and a mouse problem to have. I have seen Cables that were spliced together with Duct tape, power adapters like in jisaacmagee's picture where at arm hieght they can just be unplugged before you are even on camera, I have seen cameras installed with Double sidded tape, I think the best of all was in a 24hr store and i wish I took a picture of this they had thier entire CCTV system hooked up to a switched outlet that was right near thier door. Above the Switch was a warning sign that said not to touch the switch because it would shut down all thier cameras. Matt