phoenix_za

Hello! I hope I lay out the situation nicely here so as to make it easy for you guys to help me out. I am a hobbyist of IP cameras for about 11 years, with experience in D-Link and Axis IP cameras and basic network infrastructure and installation skills and I live in South Africa. Now onto the problem: Overview: We would like to install 2 IP cameras in our complex, covering all pedestrian and vehicle traffic going through them. The vehicles will always be halted when going through due to the gate always being closed. The cameras should be able to effectively ID people and vehicles (license plates) at night, including during a power blackout. Each gate has a 32W Spotlight that contributes approximately 2-5 lux to each gate, which might stay powered during a blackout (especially if necessary) depending on whether or not the camera comes with an adequate IR light (or a separate IR light that can be powered over Ethernet). The total budget is up to R30000 ($2591,42), however R10000 of that is expected to be used for the network infrastructure and UPS system. The cameras themselves and the network infrastructure will have power backup through a UPS system. The camera is expected to be zoomed in to the gates themselves and a little bit extra to the sides ( about 1 to 2 meters extra). The cameras could be placed at several possible positions each. Further details on positions, distances, scene widths and FoVs are given at the West gate and East gate details sections. The problem here that needs to be resolved, is picking the right IP camera, with the right zoom levels (possibly separate lenses), with the right supplementary IR or white lighting (if necessary and the existing 32W White spotlights can be used) and at the right positions in order meet all of the following requirements: Essential Requirements: * R20000 ($1727,62) budget for both cameras, their enclosures and IR lights if applicable * Water resistant external enclosure. Temperature range is -5°C to 27°C (sunlight will cause maximum to rise) * PoE * On camera recording (such as Axis Edge) * Color at night * Identify faces at night and during a blackout (Keeping the 32W spotlights on via backup power is an option) * Identify license plates at night and during a blackout (Keeping the 32W spotlights on via backup power is an option) Would be nice (non essential\bonus requirements): * Vandal resistant enclosure * Identify faces inside vehicles at night * Good enough image quality at night during blackout to allow LPR (License plate recognition) software * 2 MP or more * Still Identify faces and license plates at night during a blackout without any of the original lighting (even the 32W spotlights) * Be able to centrally access all camera recordings at once from one client (such as AXIS Camera Companion) Planned network infrastrucutre: * TP-LINK TL-SF1008P 8 port 100Mbs switch (4 ports are PoE): http://www.tp-link.com/lk/products/details/?categoryid=&model=TL-SF1008P * TP-LINK TL-WA7210N 2.4GHz 12dBi 150Mbps outdoor access point: http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-WA7210N * APC ProtectNet standalone Ethernet PoE surge protector: http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PNET1GB&tab=features * ~140m Cat5e cabling (about 70m on average per camera) Thoughts on a solution: I was looking at the Axis Q1614, but with a high zoom lens and housing, I will most likely end up paying R16000 ($1351,72) per camera. I may be looking at competing companies that provide cheaper cameras with equal performance, but I am unfamiliar with any of Axis's competitors and what their cameras are like, so some assistance here would be nice. I am also leaning towards providing power backup to the existing 32W white lights to provide guaranteed lighting levels, though it would be nice if the camera has good enough night time performance to detect details in the surrounding darker areas. As for positions, I am leaning towards Position 2 for both West and East gates. Area Map: East Gate: View from the gate itself showing the 2 positions. Actual Gate length: 4.009m Position 1: View from position 1 Scene details: * Distance to gate from position 1 is 22.66m * Approximate width of scene: 6m * Estimated FOV: 15.08 Deg Position 2: View from position 2 Scene details: * Distance to gate from position 2 is 30.13m * Approximate width of scene: 6m * Estimated FOV: 11.37 Deg Night time conditions: A picture that closely approximates what a human would see in these conditions (taken from no particular position). The 32W spotlight on the left might be kept on in in a blackout, depending on the upcoming installation. Conditions: * Ambient lighting: Half Moon, clear sky with lighting * Lighting level just in front of gate: 6 lux (lower during blackout, depending on if 32W spotlight is kept on) * Color temperature just in front of gate: 3434K West Gate: View from the gate itself showing the 3 positions. Actual Gate length: 4.504m Position 1: View from position 1 Scene details: * Distance to gate from position 1 is 20.6m * Approximate width of scene: 5m * Estimated FOV: 13.84 Deg Position 2: View from position 2 Scene details: * Distance to gate from position 2 is 16.66m * Approximate width of scene: 5m * Estimated FOV: 17.07 Deg Position 3: View from position 3 Scene details: * Distance to gate from position 3 is 23.05m * Approximate width of scene: 5m * Estimated FOV: 12.38 Deg Night time conditions: A picture that closely approximates what a human would see in these conditions (taken from no particular position). The 32W spotlight on the right might be kept on in in a blackout, depending on the upcoming installation. Conditions: * Ambient lighting: Half Moon, clear sky with lighting * Lighting level just in front of gate: 6 lux (lower during blackout, depending on if 32W spotlight is kept on) * Color temperature just in front of gate: 3154K

OK, so here is the first quotation I produced for the whole project. The prices on the actual Hikvision stuff is preliminary: IP cameras: Prices are preliminary or estimates, as it's hard to find a good public supplier or reseller for these cameras * R8000 - (2x R4000) Hikvision S-2CD4012FWD 1.3MP WDR Box IP Camera with 0.01 lux min color luminosity. * R396.56 - (2x R198.28) Hikvision DS-1292ZJ Bracket * R1214.46 - (2x R607.23) Hikvision DS-1322HZ-C Outdoor Housing * R3965.62 - (2x R1982.81) Hikvision TV0550D-MPIR 5-50mm Varifocal F1.7-C DC Auto Iris Varifocal CS Lens * R967.9 - (2x 483.95) Kingston 64GB microSDXC Class 10 memory (10MB/s read/write) Total: R14544.54 Networking: * R1214.10 (Cablelink ) - 150m Outdoor Cat5e * R689.95 (Nivo.co.za) - TP-LINK TL-SF1008P 8 port 100Mbs switch (4 ports are PoE) * R999.95 (Nivo.co.za) - TP-LINK TL-WA7210N 2.4GHz 12dBi 150Mbps outdoor access point * R1243.80 (Nivo.co.za) - (4 x R310.95) APC ProtectNet standalone Ethernet PoE surge protector Total: R4147.80 Power Backup: Endurance is calculated based on a 114W assumed load * R8609.00 (Nivo.co.za) - APC SUA1000XLI UPS for 159 minutes (2 Hours and 36 minutes) * R4479.00 (Nivo.co.za) - APC SUA24XLBP extra battery pack for 387 minutes (6 hours and 27 minutes) extra * Gives a total of 546 minutes (9 hours and 6 minutes) endurance Total: R13088 Grand Total: R31780.34 For all categories. Or with only 2 Hours and 36 minutes of power: R27301.34

Thanks for the reply buellwinkle! The images of the view I have is exactly what I am expecting to be the view of the camera. In these views I can capture people trying to climb over, what goes on at the intercom (entry dialer), which we do have at both gates and if someone tries to manipulate the motor. If this is too zoomed out for LPR, then I may consider getting two more cameras, but otherwise it seems to me like it would provide a good overview. If not, then this is an evolving project and I can start with an overview or LPR cameras first and run 2 network cables to each position (I'm thinking position 2 for both sides) and upgrade later. LPR is not essential, primarily human identifiable faces and license plates are. So I'd like to try and get away with one camera even if that means sacrificing LPR but still have good human recognition of plates. Also, I do indeed have entry dialer kiosks, and putting pinhole cams in those is a great idea! Thanks! I will consider that as a future upgrade. However I still want to have a good chance at identifying people even if they don't use it, as criminals wouldn't use the dialer. As for the Q1604, I didn't select the E version, as from what I understand I can't upgrade the lens, so I can still choose a different external housing that I believe can be vandal resident. As or being vandal resistant, I've had an Axis PTZ 215 for 8 years and other cameras before that and they have never been vandalized. In fact it seems camera vandalizing is quite rare here and even if it likely could happen, the camera is inside my complex and when someone breaks in the last thing on their mind is vandalizing the camera, as the only people who vandalize stuff it seems are drunks passing by outside the complex. Also our Palisade fence and electric fencing above that is average security in South Africa and very common. You make a good point with the Camera Companion software and edge recording. Since I'm starting with a small number of cameras, I'll just stick to having people directly access the cameras for NVR recording, as from what I understand it's easier to manage settings that way than Camera Companion like software. I'll then consider a DVR later down the road. Please excuse me, but are you saying that you would never use a cheap competitor to the Q1604? Dahua and Hikvision cameras seem to have good availability here. I usually have a quick search on pricecheck.co.za which is a good indicator of what brands and ranges are available (not all models will be represented there though). I am leaning towards Hikvision cameras as I read that they have exceptionally good on board DVR functionality. So I'm thinking of getting two DS-2CD4012FWD (http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_162_i5231.html), which I'm guessing should cost about R4500, coupled with an external housing without a heater which should be a lot cheaper than an Axis housing and a lens and I should be able to get this within R7500 each. As for the Lens, I don't know if I should go with a Hikvision one or one from another make, as lens quality seems to be quite important even for IP cams. I am quite tempted by going with DS-2CD6026FHWD-(A) (http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_167_i5232.html) instead though, which seems to be a poor man's Bosch Dinion Starlight which should be R8500 just for the cameras, but if I'm lucky I may be only slightly over budget. As for lighting, I'm assuming white light is preferable (in addition to being a deterrent) and that the existing 32W lights is enough on their own. Finally, if anyone is interested, here is a car theft that occurred 2 years ago via the East gate, which was captured using my AXIS 215 PTZ (which can't be considered in the new camera system) in overview mode and from Position 1: jori8gNyiBI You will have to skip forward a bit as I left the video unedited as this was meant for legal purposes.

I did read that article and it was indeed very good. However LPR is not essential (just has to be identifiable by a human in all possible conditions). As for the overview, I only need to see what goes through the gate and unless I need to zoom in even further than I already plan to, I don't think I will need an overview.

I think this may be in the wrong forum and should instead be in the System Design forum. If this is so, then can a moderator please move the first post there and delete this one?