SeattleBrian

Background My friend is a general contractor (GC) doing residential remodeling projects. He just had his job site robbed, and lost $15,000 of tools. I have some computer expertise. He asked me to create a video surveillance system. Since I recently became unemployed, I have time to help him. But I’m new to video systems, and consider myself a newbie. I’d like help in defining the system architecture. The system must be rugged, to survive on a small construction site. When the construction project is complete, the video system will be broken down and moved to the next construction site. Requirements: 1) Discrete. So thieves don’t cut cables to defeat the system. 2) Robust. The NVR and UPS will be in a locked metal box. If power is cut, the UPS will keep the system running for two days (eg: over the entire weekend) 3) Minimal cables. Wires on a job site create headaches for the construction workers and subcontractors. 4) Simple remote access from a smart phone. To view video if motion detect trips when the site is supposed to be vacant. 5) Cameras: Wifi and POE varieties, to minimize cabling. 6) Wired access to the Internet is on-site. Assumption: homeowners will already have an ISP (eg: Comcast) 7) If someone enters the job site after hours, a text and/or email will be sent to the GC and myself. Two way audio and remote video access will a) let us tell the thief to leave, and b) provide details for our 911 phone call. Architecture Cat5 internet --> NVR --> POE switch --> Wifi AP --> Wifi camera And: POE switch --> POE camera 1) NVR: Dahua NVR4216, host port connected to homeowner’s network, for internet access. 2) Camera: Dahua IPC-HFW4300S 3MP Eco-Savvy 3) Camera: Reolink RLC-410WS 4MP wireless 4) POE Switch: 8 port POE. Uplink port connected to a camera port on the NVR4216. Downlink ports connected to POE cameras. Note: I didn’t buy the NVR4216-8P which has POE, based on guidance on this forum. (the 8P model is more expensive, simply adding a POE switch is cheaper. And the POE switch allows reaching the cameras remotely, avoiding going through the NVR) 5) WiFi AP or WIFI Router. To support the WiFi cameras Questions 1) I’d like help with item 4 and 5. What should I look for? Specs? Model number recommendations? 2) I plan to connect the WiFi AP into the POE switch (not to a camera port on the NVR). Is this wise? Note: The WiFi AP, with “powered device” POE ability on the uplink port, eliminates the power cable and the need for an AC outlet near the WiFi AP. 3) Is a WiFi Access Point desirable? Or do I need Router capability? Thanks in advance for your help! Brian

If the prob is due to time mismatch, I think you see gaps in the green timeliness in the playback screen All clocks must be set correctly - don't rely on clock sync to overcome wrong time zones DST must be set identically in all devices also I think I had to surf to the cameras to configure time & date. If T&D of cam was set using the NVR screens, problems returned

@ssmith10pn, Thanks for the suggestion. Budget might be a problem. But I think the solution you suggested is for bigger job sites. This GC does residential remodeling. There's barely enough room for his truck(s) and tool trailer. Residential lots in the city in Seattle are often in the 50' x 100' range, and that is consumed by the house, possibly a garage, fenced yard, front lawn, etc. That leaves very little extra room. The big floodlights on that tall boom might not make the neighbors happy. Sorry to sound all negative - I appreciate you offering a suggestion!

@Daryl733, Thanks for the detailed, thoughtful and thorough response. I'm using Dahua all around. (not re-labelled). Hopefully, some P2P stability there, based on their size. Based on your comments, I scoured the menus and manual. I can't find what P2P server is being used. That's a concern. You elaborated why, and raised potential issues and real risks I wasn't aware of. As you point out, there's more to consider than latency. P2P is easy. I'll have to bite the bullet, and not take the easy path.... Thanks again!

All, I’m setting up my first system, and facing challenges with alarms. I hope you can help. My system: Dahua 4216 NVR. Dahua cameras, including IPC-HDBW4421E-AS 4MP dome, which has “Smart Detect” ability, ie: tripwire, intrusion zone, audio detect, face detect, etc. I’ve enabled alarms. The piezo beeper in the NVR goes off, the Alarm Output turns on the connected strobe light, and the NVR sends out an email. Q1: Why aren’t alarms marked in playback? I only see green on the timeline, not yellow or red. Q2: Why aren’t alarm events recorded in the log file? Or in the Alarm tab? I’ve enabled emails, and enabled the attachment of a snapshot. I receive a “Motion Detect” email, and then a “Motion Event Cleared” email. Q3: Why don’t I receive an email with a snapshot? “Smart Detect” is cool, and I want to use it. I hope to avoid false alarms from the simple MD feature. I enabled the “Tripwire” and “Intrusion Zone” feature, and defined the locations of both. When viewing live video, the tripwire flashes red when trip line is crossed. The intrusion zone box also flashes red when the zone breached. Q4: Why doesn’t “Tripwire” and “Intrusion” cause an alarm event? No email, no alarm, no alarm output, nada. My hunch: “Smart Detect” is a capability in the camera, not the NVR. The features don’t appear in the NVR UI. “Smart Detect” capability is only visible if I browse into the camera directly. Comments? Guidance? Thanks everyone! Brian

@brebenac, Awesome info! Looks like real Progress could be right around the corner! My system version is not the latest! 3.200.0000.9.R It's not V3.201.0000.0.R.20151120 Build date is 5/29/2015, a half year before the date above. So contrary to the distributor, there is updated f/w for my NVR! Thanks for your help! I have three cameras. One has IVS ability. Two don't. So I may need camera f/w update from my distributor, based on the release note you provided, ie: "If you need to use IVS, please make sure the non-intelligent IPC is in the latest firmware version. " brebenac, you've given me the ammo I need to re-approach my distributor. Dahua NVR: System Version: 3.200.0000.9.R Build Date: 05/29/2015, Web: 3.1.0.52472 Dahua Cams: IPC-HFW4300S - Software Version: 2.420.0002.0.R build : 2014-06-21, WEB Version: 3.2.4.184667 IPC-HFW1200S-W - Software Version: 2.212.0000.0.R build : 2015-06-24, WEB Version: 3.2.1.273284 IPC-HDBW4421E-AS - Software Version: 2.400.0000.10.R build : 2015-06-18, WEB Version: 3.2.1.277266

@brebenac, Thanks for reply. That's great info. I shared what my distributor said. I didn't mention the 2 screen shots they provided (which I can't attach, since I haven't been a forum member long enough). My screen, NVR4216: Setting / Event : shows 4 choices: 1) video detect 2)alarm 3) abnormality 4) alarm out. The screenshot from NVR4216-4K Setting/Event : shows 7 choices: 1) video detect 2) IVS 3) face detect 4) audio detect 5) alarm 6) abnormality 7) alarm out. Great suggestion to ask for a Dahua Support contact, who I can talk to directly. I sure hope you're right, that IVS is supported in the NVRs. I'm going to try to gather info to help substantiate that. I'll check manuals and Dahua sites. If you can point me to a source of info, I'd appreciate it!

The plot thickens... Your camera has a moveable IR cut filter. (I had wrongly assumed it was IR correction fillter on the lens, ie: less expensive) I don't have experience with cameras with mechanical IR cut filters... I looked at both camera spec sheets, I didn't spot either stating a mechanical IR cut filter. The 2nd camera you mention may have the ability to immediately switch to night mode: DAY & NIGHT: Auto/Day/Night: Delay: 0 to 255 sec I also now realize you're looking at HD-SDI cameras. Is this because you want to take advantage of existing wiring? Siamese wiring: Coax + power If this is a new installation, I'd suggest you look into IP cameras, and use Cat6 cable for the wiring, instead of coax. HD-SDI is a "transition solution". It support new technology HD images, but over old technology coax cable. Existing CCTV installation can upgrade to HD but avoid the expense of rewiring. IP is coming, it has staying power, and if you're doing a new installation, most advise going IP. I see the video is PAL, not NTSC. I gues you're not in the USA (which is NTSC)

On some cameras, you turn off IR permanently. This capability is demanded by users who aim a camera through a window. When IR turns on, the IR reflected from the window bounces back into the camera, effectively blinding it. But I haven't seen cameras where you can enable the IR to stay on permanently. I don't think there a customer demand for this ability. And this operating mode has drawbacks, in general use. IR illumination will adversely affect the color image. (things will be purple-ish). Going into b&w mode avoids this discoloration. Covering the daylight sensor will turn on IR since the camera will always be in nighttime mode. Unfortunately, in b&w mode. Do a google search for "CCTV Ir Infrared Night Vision Illuminator". I recently boiught a 48 IR LED unit for less than $10. Using the 10 to 12 IR LEDs of the camera for lighting the theatre stage may not provide enough light. I imagine the camera will be further from the stage than the camera's LEDs can adequately light. Therefore, you may need auxiliary illumination anyway! Extra illuminator(s) also allow you to locate them for the best effect. Angle, intensity, eliminate shadows, etc. You state "6 minutes is an eternity in theatre". The corollary may be "poor lighting is is a calamity in theater" Using a camera at a concert or play generally isn't allowed. You could even aim some IR illuminators from the stage area into the audience seating area. It will seriously disrupt anyone taking pictures or movies with their cell phone. And won't affect the human viewing.... Have fun!

@brebenac, You suggested I check with my NVR distributor regarding f/w upgrade. So I described my "Smart Detect" challenges. This is what I learned; I talked to the distributor, to check if a f/w upgrade for the NVR4216 would get "Smart Detect" working. This is what I learned: "The reason you're not able to see the “tripwire/intrusion/Object/scene change” is because that NVR unit does not have IVS(Intelligent Video Surveillance) “smart detect” capabilities. The only unit that has this feature will be the 4k units, therefore a Firmware update will not help." That's curious. The "Smart Detect" functionality is resident in the camera. The camera handles the processing for tripwire, intrusion zone, facial recognition, etc. Surfing to the camera directly shows it in action. "Smart Detect" works great. The NVR just needs to handle the "SD" conclusions from the camera, ie: messages, alarms, etc. I think my NVR4216 hardware is capable of handling "Smart Detect". It's the NVR4216 firmware that isn't capable. Secondly, this seems like a Marketing decision. If you want to utilize "Smart Detect", you need to upgrade to the new 4K models. In my case, at 2X to 3X the cost I asked my distributor if future f/w upgrades will deliver Smart Detect IVS capability. We'll see if they can get an answer from Dahua....

anorthcote, Welcome to the forum! The camera was designed to handle the transition from daytime to nighttime, which naturally takes some time. So hysteresis is designed in. Damping, so to speak. It makes for a more stable system. Otherwise, the camera could toggle back and forth quickly and repeatedly. You might consider alternative solutions. Could IR illumination be on all the time? A separate IR illuminator could be constantly powered. When stage light got to "black out", the camera would remain in color daytime mode. The image will have a purple-ish tint, due to the IR illumination, but the image contain the things you want to see. Six seconds later, the camera will transition to black & white nighttime mode, and it will turn on its IR LEDs (for additional illumination in this scenario) This may address the real root cause. ie: it's not that you need to switch from color mode (daytime), to b&w mode (nightime) immediately. Instead, you want IR illumination available whenever the lights are switched off.

@brebenac, Thanks for the reply. I've been working to fix the performance, and have most items fixed. Thanks for the suggestion about checking with the distributor for f/w. I paid a higher price to buy from a distributor for the sake of support. Now to check that out! The "Smart Detect" feature in the camera (tripwire, intrusion zone, facial recognition, etc) works at the camera level. I enabled the camera to send emails with a snapshot for the "Smart Detect" event. The NVR is oblivious. So I get an email and snapshot - good. I don't get an NVR alarm, alarm output to turn on strobe, or have the "Smart Detect" event recorded in the log file or playback timeline. Unfortunate. (unless an NVR f/w upgrade fixes this!) Possiible workaround: Wire the camera's "Alarm Out" to the NVR's "Alarm in". I'll check the Cat6 conductors. If POE is on the data lines (pins 1,2,3,6), then I could re-purpose the other conductors. This could be better than running an additional cable to the camera. Thanks again!

Shunbab, Welcome to the forum! Quick question: Have you ruled out WiFi connection problems? ie: did the camera connect to your WiFi router when the distance was less? I might suggest a simple test. When connected near the house, how far can you go before losing the connection? If you only need to gain a little bit of range, you might try placing a ground plane behind the antenna. This will boos the signal - the ground plane will let the antenna be more effective, and will make it somewhat directional. A flat piece of metal, old license plate, or flat galvanized sheet metal from Home Depot may be adequate. Connect the plate to ground on the power supply line. If you're at the limit of coverage, you may lose the connection in rain. Wet leaves and wet house siding will absorb the RF energy. Good luck!

CIRCUIT BREAKER, Thanks for your first post. You want everything wireless. Are your ip cameras wireless? If so, you need to connect them with a cable first. Use any patch cord, and connect the camera to your home network. DHCP should find the camera, and assign an IP address. Using that ip addr, surf to the camera with your browser. Then configure the camera for you home WiFi network (define the SSID and your WiFi security key). If your home IP address range is very different than the default IP address of the cam, the steps above come later. ie: you'll need to change the camera's default IP address to be "reachable" on your home network. You lost me with give "the router a false address, no matter what because you are not really useing the address anyway" Everything on your network needs an address. You "have IP cameras that I would like to view on my home computer". To do that naturally requires a true ip address that is compatible with your home network. To view the cam on a PC requires the camera have an ip addr. Hope that helps,

Daryl733, P2P is easy (good), but some folks recommend not using P2P (bad). P2P requires using a P2P server, which is handled in the background (ie: doesn't require anything from me). The P2P server is an intermediary between the NVR and the remote viewer (say with a web browser or app on a cell phone). Hence the video lags behind true "real tim Live viewing". A while after the P2P link is established, the P2P server drops out of the picture. The link then doesn't have an intermediary, and is direct. At this point, it's as fast as a connection using port forwarding (using DDNS for a stable IP address over time). At least, that's my understanding. Correct me if this is wrong. The initial connection, with a image lag, is the only drawback I know of to using P2P. After the P2P server drops out of the picture, P2P is just as fast as other connection methods. Daryl733, could you explain why you recommend P2P only as a last resort? Am I overlooking something? Thanks, Brian

Looseparts, Welcome to the digest! I joined a short while ago. Before I posted my newbie questions, I made sure they weren't already answered. This forum is great for searching. My beginner questions had been answered - in many manners and with different technical nuances. Learning ensued! And I found that learning from previous posts was way, way faster than posting a question! Not all posted questions get answers. Check the link under the banner for "view unanswered posts". Scan the list for dates - some questions sit for a while. Lastly, If you're using microphones, check local law. In some places, all parties must consent to being recorded. Audio & video have different rules. And some differences in how the recordings can be used. Have fun! Brian

Klop_cam, Welcome to the forum! I also recently joined... I have a Dahua 4216 NVR. For WiFi, I have a Dahua IPC-HFW1200S-W Small Bullet, 2MP. The images look very good. The NVR stays connected across the network. I switched to static IP to solve this problem: DHCP would change the WiFi cam's IP on my network. The NVR kept looking at the previous IP addr, and couldn't reach the cam. Static IP: problem solved. My WiFi cam needs 12V power. So for your friend, a "few holes" may be needed. You didn't say if WiFi already exists, or if you'd install WiFi just to get wireless cams. Instead of going down the WiFi path, you might consider IP over the powerline. ie: use the house AC wiring to handle the video data. Personally, I'm opting for WiFi outdoors, and wired most places indoors. Every cabling job is different! Brian

Daryl733, KISS - yes, I agree. I don't have the basic system completely operational yet. Let alone adding a 2nd decoy system. The Gen'l Contractor hasn't weighed in. If a decoy system negatively impacts his job site, or the breakdown/setup of moving the system from job site to job site, then we may not implement a decoy NVR. Decoy cameras that simply blink an LED when motion is detected may be the only decoy we use. Battery operated, lasts months, looks realistic if mounted up high... I have one coming, to evaluate.

Hi Glarprive1992, welcome to the forum! I think we'll need more info. eg: 1) Analog system, or IP system? (analog system, or HD digital?) 2) Make & model of your DVR or NVR. Some answers: Let's say you have an 8 camera DVR, and 8 cameras are connected. Your system may be maxed out. Adding more cameras may not be possible. You say "I believe connecting cameras would allow me to record videos and monitor my house from any part of the world." Viewing live video, or playing back recorded video, from anywhere in the world is not related to connecting additional cameras. Wireless or wired. In other words, tackling the internet access to your system is first step, and can be tackled without adding more cameras. Your DVR or NVR needs network access, and your house needs broadband internet access. (adding internet access with a cellular modem is possible, but more complicated and expensive) Info we'd need from you: 3) Does your system have internet access now? Any remote viewing ability now? Brian

smcctv, I assume this is an IP system? Not analog? A) Connecting microphones to the NVR is an option. The input will be associated with a camera, so that audio & video for that camera channel are recorded together. My NVR has a single audio input, and it is associated with camera channel 1. Not configurable. B) Connecting a microphone to an audio-capable camera is an option. Or buying a camera with built in mic. In both cases, the audio is then recorded with the correct video. ie: The audio is encoded into the IP data stream from camera to NVR. Considerations: External mics usually require a power source. My POE camera with mic needed a cable for 12V, sorta defeating the benefit of POE. Mic location, sensitivity, background noise, etc.

Raulangel, Welcome to the forum! If I understand correctly, the IP address of your router changes periodically. So using a browser over the internet sometime can't reach the router for your CCTV cameras, because the IP address has changed. If so, I think you have two options. You can use P2P to make the connection, if your CCTV equipment supports it. The more common, but a bit trickier, is to use DDNS. DDNS will keep your IP address from changing. You may have port forwarding already set up. (my assumption, since you can surf in to the system, presumably with security) Take a look at this posting, where Dynamic Domain Name Service (DDNS) is discussed. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=49881&p=284781&hilit=DDNS+set+up#p284781 Brian

Ben_Indo, Etherent over powerline sounds feasible. Here's a post covering a solution: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34762 The house has two phases of 120V. I've heard of some problems when the ethernet powerline data has to reach the other phase. If the AC power in the loft is from the left side of your AC breaker panel, but the NVR in the hallway is powered from the right side of the breaker panel, you might need to take some extra steps. Brian

Trailerlier, I have the same NVR, and am using Dahua cams. I was also losing configuration settings, for motion detect and more. There are several ways to change settings. - The native UI in the NVR. - SmartPSS app - with a browser, surf into the NVR - w/ browser, surf into camera. It's easy to have more than 1 active at the same time. Here's the problem: The last UI you exit from overwrites the changes made with the other UI. I now only use one UI at a time. Also, I go overboard with "Save". It's easy to make changes, then leave the tab. There's no warning that "unsaved changes will be lost" [MOD: link removed]

All, I'm building my first system. It's for a job site (home remodel) to prevent tool theft. It'll be installed temporarily, then reconfigured during the job, as walls are built, plumbing, wiring, sheetrock, etc. Later, the system will be broken down and moved to the next job site. The point is, wires are a headache. The fewer, the better. I'll use a mix of POE and WiFi cameras. Motion Detect (MD) is important. I'm using a Dahua NVR4116 and Dahua IPC-HDBW4421E-AS Dome IP Camera (more cams soon). The MD output from the camera is an open collector output to a wire coming out of the camera. So my POE camera will have a Cat6 cable for data & POE. And a 2nd cable to carry the MD signal from the camera back to the NVR's Alarm input. The NVR will send an SMS to the General Contractor (GC) and work crew. This 2nd cable w/ MD alarm is a drawback. Like I said, wires on a job site are a headache for the GC and others. I has assumed the MD alarm would be sent to the NVR as data, using the Cat6 cable. Similar to how audio (I assume) is part of the data stream to the NVR. Sending the 3.3V open collector signal over a long run of cable seem problematic also, as compared to sending MD event as IP data. The MD capability of the camera is pretty sophisticated and programmable. I really want to take advantage of it. I also assumed the MD event would be part of the being recorded, ie superimposed on the video. - Am I missing something? - Do cameras that support MD, Audio in/out, and audio alarms really need a dedicated cable? - Are all 8 conductors in the Cat 6 cable used? It's not a Gb camera, so maybe it uses only 4 of the 8 conductors? (allowing me to re-purpose spare conductors) - A cable to carry camera alarms really defeats the purpose of a WiFi camera with MD... Thanks for any help! Brian

Thanks!