dmills913

EDIT: I've gotten some advice from a family member that has set this kind of thing up before. He recommended I set up a computer in each location running blue iris and use the cat6 cables I already ran and buy poe network cameras. Assuming you agree with this advice, does anyone have any thoughts on which cameras to look at? I looked through the Axis and Dahua product selectors and it's difficult to find anything that supports audio at all. The best option I saw was the M1054 camera from Axis, but they are $350 each, and a bit outside our budget probably :/ I'm hoping to find cameras for about $200 each. Original Message: I run an English School in Japan, and I have a bit of an unusual system requirements (at least for where I live). We have two locations, with 6 classrooms and an office area in each location. What we've used until now is Y-Cam Home Monitor cameras. For those of you that don't know, these work by detecting motion, and then sending all of the data to their head offices in the UK. You can view the feed via the internet (streamed from their servers at a bit of a lag time). We use the cameras primarily for two things: 1. We have parents sitting in our lounge area drinking coffee, chatting, and watches the classes live on two different TVs. We have accomplished this by using the Roku App that is run by Y-Cam to connect the stream to each TV. The largest problem with these cameras in general is that they won't allow us to stream anything from the servers to either our computers or to the Roku app for any more than 5-15 minutes. This naturally presents a problem as the classes are 40-60 minutes, and we need to go back out to the menu over and over during classes so that parents can continue to watch. Our second 2. Because the cameras record on motion, we were able to set up the detection fields so that in general, entire classes can be recorded, and then downloaded to the computers. This allows teachers to do self-evaluations, management to give advice when teachers struggle with things, etc. Generally, we're unhappy with the system because of the 5-15 minute limits on streaming to the TVs. Y-Cam tech support is terrible, and basically strung us along just long enough for the system to be out of warranty, so I'm not at all interested in continuing to use them. Here's our immediate problem: Last night, I received an email from Y-Cam saying that they were ending service on the Roku app. This is the only way that our parents can watch the classes live, and so this is a big problem for us. The real kicker is that they said the service would end on May 16th. So... for an important service that we invested about $2,500 in over two schools, they give us 3 days cancellation notice. There's not really anything we can do as the cancellation of the roku service doesn't really 'break' the cameras in general, just for our specific needs. I wired both schools for ethernet 2 years ago when we installed these Y-Cam systems, and I'm fairly handy technology wise, but I'd like some advice on a new system that won't be so reliant on 3rd party apps. We're looking for two different systems with a minimum of 4 cameras, and a preference of 6-7. One system per school, and our budget has a max of about $3,000 total. Our Top Needs: A) Reliable way for parents sitting in the same building to view classes live (or nearly live) with Audio. The signal should be at least 720p so the parents don't see a degradation in quality. B) A method for management to give digital copies of classes (about a 1 hour block) to teachers. We'd like it to record everything that the cameras see, and then have a fairly easy way (preferably by computer) to log into the system, and get digital files to send to teachers. C) A way to view the classes live from a computer/phone/tablet that was NOT in the building, or maybe even in another country. We would also strongly prefer to be able to view recorded files from the hard drive (For example, last week's 3:00 class) D) A minimum of 4 cameras, with a preference for 6-7. (Per school) E) The cameras need to have a fairly wide FOV (Since the rooms here in Japan are fairly small. Our current cameras have an 87 degree fov, and we'd like to get somewhat near that. They also need to be wall mountable, as room mounted gives us a less than desirable viewing angle on the classroom. Parents want to see their kids faces having fun. Our pie in the sky hopes: A) A way to get a live feed URL of each single camera that we could incorporate into our private website login so that if a student is sick, they would still be able to watch the class live in an iframe, etc on the website. This would help us to cut down on the number of make-up lessons, etc. I'm willing to run BNC cord, or whatever other standard cord there is. While we don't need to have a solution in place this week, I would definitely like to make significant progress on a system in the next 3 weeks. There's not nearly the options here that there may be in the states, but we do have a Costco nearby, and so I have seen the Q See systems. I also have seen Lorex. They SEEM to do most of what we want to do, but I'm sure they are bottom of the barrel in terms of quality. Our situation seems fairly unique, and none of people I've talked to here have been able to help us, but the internet is a wide place, and this seems like a very knowledgeable group of people. Does anyone have any advice on systems that I can take a look at? (Or systems to flat out avoid?) Thank you in advance!

Here's what happens when I go to the URL for the camera. As you can see, it's a local ip address. There are no login options, just an 'update firmware' option. Y-Cam doesn't seem to have firmware for their HomeMonitor line though, so I am assuming it must be a way for their techs to update things before shipping them out.

Ok, you've done it. How? I have the camera IP, and I cannot log into the cameras. My router sees them on the network, but ispyconnect can't connect to them. I know that Y-Cam makes IP cameras, and I'm certain that those work as you describe. Have you actually done it with the camera I uploaded a picture of? It says "HomeMonitor" on the camera.

Tom, I appreciate the time you've spent on replying. You talk a great game. You tell me how simple it is. Do local, don't use 3rd party. When I try to follow the very vague advice you give, it doesn't work. The single piece of advice you've given in this whole thread was "Use the standard apps .... Use local. Use that or eyespy app." I spent two days trying to follow this advice. According to Y-Cam tech support, there ARE NO LOCAL Y-CAM APPS THAT WORK WITH MY CAMERAS. I downloaded 'eyespy', and it didn't work. As I posted earlier in thread asking if you meant this software: https://www.ispyconnect.com/ . You didn't respond to that question either, but I tried it, and no go. So, to recap: If it's so simple, why can't you give me a single concrete thing I can try? Do you understand how frustrating it is to invest a bunch of money in something, have it suddenly not work, and then have someone on the internet tell you how simple it is without telling you how to do it? Now you're insinuating that I'm lying about trying to get it to work, that I just want to buy an all-new system, and it's so simple that if I really actually wanted to use the cameras that I have, then I'd already be able to? Let me be clear. I don't want to buy a new system if anyone can show me ANY way to get around it with our current cameras. I'm totally open to any advice, will download anything to try, etc. If it's so easy, give me a direction.

I'm not picky I'm happy to listen to anyone who takes the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it!

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, I would need to buy an external microphone and plug that into the "Audio Input" cable. After doing that, would it then transfer the audio via the ethernet cable to the NVR? Or would I ALSO need to plug another cable into the audio out that somehow integrates into the NVR?

The cameras I was looking at jumped up $104 each in price, so I'm looking into different cameras now. I came across these on Amazon, and was confused by the cords. It looks like the round one is for ethernet/poe, the power one would be optional if you were using PoE, and I was confused about the audio. Does the audio not go through the ethernet cable? Or is it just an optional output? http://www.amazon.com/Dahua-IPC-HDBW4421E-AS-Megapixel-Network-SavvyPixel/dp/B01D34TZ82?ie=UTF8&keywords=dahua%20(-as)&qid=1463713669&ref_=sr_1_5&sr=8-5 In the fourth picture down, you can see the cables I'm asking about. Thanks!

Ok, that's great help. I really appreciate it! I'll let you know if any other last minute questions pop up. Hopefully we'll be making a decision sometime in the next few days. Edit: One other question that does occur. We were thinking of getting panorama cameras for the office itself. We would never need to show those on the TV (nor would we want to). Is it very easy to administer settings on the NVR via a computer? Is it even possible? I would be wanting to do all of the 'viewing recorded footage' from my office, 70% of the 'viewing live footage' from the local TVs, and 30% from my local computer. We would occasionally view classes remotely from iphone, etc. I assume when you're talking about bandwidth, you'd be referring to upload bandwidth in this case? Either way, my Download speed is 64.25Mbps and my upload is 84.82Mbps here.

Hi Daryl, Thanks for the help. I don't think we would ever need to view 4k over the internet, as long as we could view at least a 720 stream from the 4k cameras. The cameras don't actually do 30fps at 4mp anyway, so we'll almost certainly be running them at 3mp or lower. Honestly, for our parents (who would all be viewing locally anyway), we won't need to be running anything more than 720. Anything higher than that would just be for managers and teachers to do training with. 3) Ok, great. The only sticky point to it is that 90% of the time, we want to use our 'main' tv. We only really use the second tv when we have two classes at the same time. So, for example, today being Wednesday, we had a 2:00pm class in Room 1, a 3:00 class in Room 3, a 4:40 in Room 2 and another 4:40 in Room 1. In this example, we would want to show the classes at 2:00, and 3:00, as well as the 4:40 class in Room 2 on our main TV, while showing the other 4:40 class in Room 1 on our second TV. I don't know if that makes sense, but we would want to regularly be changing (as in several times a day) which TV is showing which camera. It'd be WONDERFUL if there was a script we could just have run on a weekday that would just change things automatically. It looked like Blue Iris might support some things like that with scheduling and settings. Would a normal NVR be able to change which camera the TV was showing quickly? 6) Thanks for your advice. The NVR does seem more simple in terms of a box that would be easier to keep out of view, and less 'moving parts', as long as it was simple enough to use. I have a lot more experience with keeping computers up to date, so I'm not particularly worried on that front, though simple is nice. One thing we do have extras of is computer systems, so we would be able to have a computer that was dedicated to just being an software NVR box. I'm starting to lean more towards just getting an NVR though. I really appreciate the help and well update if I have any more questions!

After spending the last couple days trying everything I could find, and several different software ideas, I have to conclude that it is impossible to use the cameras in any local manner. I'd love to be proven wrong, but since no one seems to be able to offer a working solution, I need to move in another direction. That being said, I'm considering these as an option: Office Camera (One per school): Dahua IPC-EB5400 Fisheye 4mp (Link) Classroom Cameras (5 per school): Dahua IPC-HDBW4421F-AS 4mp (Link) As an NVR, I'm considering the following: A) Dahua NVR4208 (8 Channel 4k Recorder) (One per school): (Link) or B) Blue Iris or some other software based NVR system. I have a few questions related to the options I'm considering and wondered if anyone has any thoughts. 1) Does it make sense to get 4k cameras and a 4k NVR? The price was hardly any higher and seemed more future-proof, also allowing us to zoom in on recorded footage if we ever needed to. 2) Is it possible to save the 4k footage to the hard drive while sending 720 or 1080 signal to the TVs? 3) I called BHPhoto and Video and they said that the NVR4208 recorder can send a different cameras signal to two different TVs. It has an HDMI and a VGA out. Does this seem wrong? In order for it to be able to send to two different TVs, it would need more than outputs, but also some software side method of sending a certain signal to a certain TV, right? 4) Do NVRs such as this one typically come with a remote control? Are they administered through a 3rd party computer? When we send the signal to the TVs, as much as possible, I'd like to do it quickly and without too much fiddling around in front of the parents. The staff that will be using the system will be very unfamiliar with technology in general, and I need something simple. 5) The classroom cameras are called "Wedge Dome" on the Dahua website, and I'm guessing this means they are made to be put in between wall and ceiling? Would these work wall mounted at about 7 feet up? Would they look weird? 6) Though the Dahua NVR seems fairly cheap, a software package like Blue Iris is still cheaper since we have extra computers at our schools that could run it. What advantages and disadvantages are there with a dedicated NVR box vs a computer running a software NVR? I have some guesses, but wondered if someone could confirm. Dahua NVR: Pros: Would definitely work with Dahua cameras If it needed to be near the TVs, the NVR box would have a smaller footprint vs a normal computer. Less fan noise? Wouldn't have to worry about specs not being enough to run the cameras/handle the signal. Software NVR: Seems to have more features? More upgradeable due to the larger case (more hard drives, etc) Would be more likely to work with various cameras if we later decided to use mixed brand cameras, or a camera broke and we needed to replace it with a cheaper off-brand etc. Seems to be more designed for running on one computer, but administering from other computers. Would this mean I could tuck the computer with the software NVR in a closet somewhere, and administer it from other computers? That seems nice. For a software NVR, would a computer running a total of 6 cameras be under a very heavy load? Even if they were 4k cameras, I wouldn't honestly ever need to view more than 2 at a time on any given screen, and probably never more than 2 screens at once. Any other thoughts? Any pros I missed? The advice I had received up to now said to use "Blue Iris" or "Milestone", and no one had mentioned an NVR box. On this forum though, I was told to just buy an NVR. I'll be happy to post this in a new thread if this has become a bit off-topic. Thanks!

It occurs to me that you might have been referring to this software? https://www.ispyconnect.com/ I downloaded it and tried it out, but it wants a login/password for each camera. As far as I know, the HomeMonitor line doesn't have a login/password for the camera. I looked through the original documentation, and it says to add them through the web interface to your account. I looked for default login/pw and it says admin/1234, but it also says that that is for their bullet line. This blog entry (http://ycamoldblog.wpengine.com/homemonitor-answer-to-ip-camera-hacking/) for the Home Monitor line says that there isn't a default login and password, but that you create the password for your account, and then your individual cameras are inside that. Just for kicks, I tried the login/pw to the account, but it didn't work. The ispyconnect software does see the cameras on the network, but when it scans for valid urls, it finds zero. Edit: I found this page on the ispyconnect site: https://www.ispyconnect.com/man.aspx?n=Y-cam# I tried all the URLs, but the part holding me back is the login/password.

I downloaded the Eyespy app, but when I enter the URL for the camera, it just says "Unable to connect." There's no login or password for the cameras that I have (or if there is, I don't know what it is). The only way I've ever managed the cameras were logging into their web interface and changing settings there (it has all the cameras that are on my account together).

The App is the "Eyespy" app that you talked about? I can put the URL of the camera into a browser, and it says "Click to Update the cameras firmware". There's no login or anything. I don't mind trying to update it, but it asks me to upload the file to upgrade the firmware, and I don't have an upgrade file. When searching for the firmware, I found this forum post with someone asking about compatibility with (what I believe is) another NVR software package: https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?t=108559 The reason I keep saying "Home Monitor" is because that's actually the name of the camera.

Yes, Home Monitor plus is an option that you can pay for and add to th HomeMonitor line of cameras. I don't have it and am not paying for it.

Do you mean this app? http://www.overpass.co.uk/app/eye-spy/ I'll try it when I get back o the office. I downloaded a trial of Blue Iris to see if it could see the cameras on th network, but it doesn't find any cameras. I checked the IP address of one of the cameras on the network (192.168.1.90) and tried to connect, but it said "no camera found". I'll try that app and post back.

I actually did look into an NVR option related to Y-Cam cameras after you mentioned it was possible. Unfortunately, the only ones I could find are compatible solely with Y-Cams IP camera line (the Bullet Line or the Cube line). Do you know of an NVR I can look at that would support the Home Monitor line of cameras? If it helps, I'll attach photos of the front and back of one of the cameras. I appreciate the assistance! Pictures of the Camera with model number: http://imgur.com/XTYfbNu http://imgur.com/6s5CKZN Thanks!

Hi Tom, I appreciate your answers on this forum. I came here asking for help, and I apologize if I'm coming across as argumentative. I don't know how to view the cameras locally. If you know of a way to do this, please let me know. I would strongly prefer to keep the cameras we have if it is possible. Thanks in advance!

I'd be happy to admit if I'm wrong. If you could tell me what I can try, I'll try it out first thing tomorrow morning. What should I try?

Another one of Y-Cam's big issues, unfortunately, is their marketing speak. They claim that you can watch as much as you want, 365 days a year. Technically... this is true. BUT, you are limited to watching for 15 minutes maximum at a time. At that point, the system cuts out, and you're more than welcome to start it right back up. I had a long discussion with Chris at Y-Cam about this exact point. At the time, they actually only had 2-3 employees working there, and I was on a first name basis with them through tech support. There is, unfortunately, no way to view the Y-cam cameras that I have for more than 15 minutes at a time. Y-Cam does make other cameras in their ip line that don't have this limitation, and aren't a part of their cloud service. Edit: This article on their support page (poorly) describes what I'm talking about: http://support.y-cam.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1661650-can-i-use-a-y-cam-ip-camera-with-homemonitor-

We have 5 cameras in each location (1 died in one of the schools just after the warranty period ended) so we have a total of 9 active cameras. I had long discussions with Y cam about their plus package. Ultimately, it didn't add anything that we were interested in. It was primarily a "we'll hold on to your footage longer" thing. The email I received said that their Roku service was ending completely, so I doubt they're holding onto it for their plus package. They are always a little slow to update their website I've noticed. I think I understand the confusion. Y-cam has a line of IP cameras (I believe they are called cube). Those work exactly as you're describing, and have no limitations, and work locally. They are unrelated to any subscription service. Unfortunately, those aren't the cameras I have. Their home monitor line gives 7 days free recording on their servers for free. There is no way at all to use the cameras locally, nor even view them locally. The only way I can view footage on my cameras is camera->y-cam servers->me. The pay service is an add on to this. I am not paying for it. It adds 30 days free recording rather than 7, and probably a few other minor features.

Yes, between Early June and late October 2014, I was in regular contact with their tech support. At the time, they were planning on expanding their pay portion of the cameras (where you pay $4.99 per camera per month) and they would remove the 15 minute time limit and also give a URL where you could share the camera without requiring the end viewer to have a log/pw (it would be a url controlled through their login panel) they updated me on progress several times and ultimately said that they were scrapping the idea. Unfortunately, this was around the time our window to return the cameras would end.

Due to my complete lack of experience, I'm not sure how to read that advice hehe. Is Dahua a well established and known brand?

I'm glad they finally updated their FAQ. They told me that they would after I complained to them about it heh. They are still advertising their Roku app for TV connectivity though I notice :/

Y-Cam Home Monitor cameras was the old name, they've rebranded them and are calling them "Indoor HDS" now. Here's a link to them: https://www.y-cam.com/product/indoor-hd-wireless-security-camera/ As for Blue Iris, it was recommended by a family member as an affordable and powerful software system that can manage the cameras and do what we need. I'd certainly be open to Dahua software or an NVR. I'm just in the gathering information stage at the moment, and so I'm trying to consolidate all the recommendations I've received. The main thing that we'd need is for it to be simple for all the staff in the school to be able to switch which of our two TVs is showing which classroom so that the parents can watch. If it can do that, record backups for the teachers, and be viewable from outside the school via an ios app, that's really all we need.

Could you unpack that "first generation fw 1.98. Will not work with most NVRs" statement? I don't understand. I've spent a lot of time looking at cameras and systems, and what I'm consider now would be running a computer with Blue Isis in each of our two schools, and using these cameras: Dahua IPC-HDBW4421F (http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/ipc-hdbw4421f-as-1001.html) If you have an idea for something I can try with the Y-Cam cameras we have, I'd love to try that though. If there's anything at all I can do to exceed 15 minutes streaming at a time, that'd be the ideal situation.