timmah

http://www.zoneminder.com/downloads.html Check out the live cds towards the bottom, install and watch your neighbor.

http://www.zoneminder.com

Well, yes, I understand what you mean but it's not quite my point. Perhaps if UDP and Comart do release new boards then their prices are justified. If a company designs the hardware and software as a whole, on their own like Nvidia or ATI then there isn't much to say about the pricing. I mean, it's not like ATI just writes an SDK and driver updates then sells that as an "upgrade". They put lots of money into R&D and design of an actual chip. But how about Geo and others? How long has the v3 board been in use and those are not new designs but just build on the old ones. I'm not saying that the software needs to be written for many different processors, (I don't expect windows to run on a RISC processor) but that we have a choice of who to buy the cards from and for how much. So I can choose to buy my card from Geo and have their "guarantee" that is high quality or buy it from any other manufacturer at 1/4 of the price and deal with them for hardware issues. Then seperately buy the software from Geo, or perhaps even another software dev firm that can create better software. It's like the car aftermarket industry, does it mean that if I put in a K&N filter in my truck that it is not as good as the OEM from the dealership? Does that mean that Dodge should be able to tell me that I can't use a K&N filter? And still, have there been any actual benchmarks on the quality differences of cards? Has anyone actually made a compairson on how much processor, ram, hd space, compression, autio quality, picture quality, analog out quality on each card? This http://www.zoneminder.com software works on any card with a 878a chip, HAL can't be that different if this is possible and it's free. The DVR industry still seems to want to hold on to the old model when all of the hardware was very specialized and had to be engineered for each new model, now with digital systems it's in a different place, it's mostly software development. That means that with the dropping prices of chips, cameras and manufacturing, unless these companies come out with something really different or innovative there will be a huge influx of software that works on any one of these "generic" cards. With the SDK available from the orignal manufacturers of the cards anyone with 100 hours and some visual basic or C# skills can pump out some software. With outsourcing to asia rates can be as low as $10 an hour for quality work. So what's to stop me and anyone else from getting my own software made that is comperable and sell it myself? Look at Frys, they sell security camera systems, Home Depot does too. These cards are easy enough for someone with basic computer skills to install... that means that as soon as someone comes out with a simple plug and play software for the masses and for a cheap price everything else will be useless. I think the way things are going right now, it's only hurting the industry and our clients.

Rory: I understand that it's not the same hardware, I was using Geo as an example. I'm looking for a good technical explanation of the quality difference of the so called "generic" cheap cards and the "expensive" what ever brand cards, something with benchmarks, etc, like http://tomshardware.com might do... The issue for me is that everyone says that the "generic" cards are bad because they are cheap, I don't think that's the case. My other issue is that most of the brand name dvr companies sell their card as if it was something special, when most of the time the difference is software... WHY NOT JUST SELL SOFTWARE?

HERE is the only patent that Geo has in the US. It has nothing to do with their hardware, only a "method" of capturing and displaying, it's basically a software patent. So maybe they can also sue everyone else that is making dvr software... Either way, NO HARDWARE patent. Here is something else... http://www.electroketch.com/9201.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val* EDIT: moved my comment below rory's post.

That didn't answer much... what boards have the multiplexing chips? How much are those chips themselves? Unlike an MPEG processor, I can't imagine there are very expensive. Does a multiplexing chip justify an 800% difference? Do the geo cards have one? If so then how can they be sold for 1/4 of the price on ebay if the manufacturer uses the same parts? R&D for the boards should have been absorbed years ago when it was released, if this was the case, there would not be new video cards released every 6 months and old ones dropping in value at over 50%. For example, when was the last time geo released a COMPLETELY newly designed card with a different video processor? What patent? These boards are not anything new. Support for SDK should follow Software sales model, not overpriced hardware. Regardless of that, I'm talking about compairing apples to apples, lets say a completely legit board, not cloned from any other design, why would that be inferior? Same hardware... only difference would be the software, then we could choose what software to buy ourselves. What would happen to the PC industry if processors were "locked" to just one OS?

Ok, I always see people saying that the cheap cards suck, low quality, blah blah blah. Here is my question, what then is the difference between the "cheap" cards and the expensive ones? At ISC last year I saw many different manufacturers and 99% of the cards used the 878a chip. If that chip is used then the picture quality should be about the same... So then it comes to hardware features that are unique to the card, hardware compression, etc. I can understand that that adds price to the card but many "expensive" cards don't have that built in as well. (like the geo cards) So then, if the hardware is pretty much the same, it's just the software... If the end user isn't looking for web access, PTZ control, object detection, blah blah, then what is the difference? Then you say, reliability, ok so at the price of the "generic" card at 100 and the equivalent "brand name" card at 800, the end user could buy 4 card to spare and still save money! But lastly, PRICE OF HARDWARE DOES NOT = QUALITY. I think the dvr hardware is highly inflated because it's not as main stream a market... look at the prices for a brand new video capture card at mid grade consumer level, its ~200. THAT is for NEW technology, developed within the past yr-6mo or so... most of the dvr cards have been developed years ago and cost of production should have gone down severely. Do you honestly want me to believe that when Tivo's can sell for ~200 and be bundled with lots more tech than a dvr card that the actual manufacturer of these cards cost more than a few dollars? I think the real value comes from the software that comes with the card but that is overpriced as well... These companies will never be able to stop pirates when the factory that OEMs their cards also sell to ANYONE else. They should stop the business model of selling their "superior" hardware for insanely high prices and market their software. Security companies should stop charging their customers 400% markup for overpriced hardware and charge fairly for their expert services. The market has changed since hardware multiplexers and tape rotations. Anyone sys/network admin can set up a dvr installation. This is just MHO, if I am wrong and there is a good explanation for the prices please clue me in. I really would like to know the difference and not just that the price makes it better. In the computer age there are only like 4-5 major hardware factories that build the components for ALL other companies (geo, magic radar, kodi, ati, nvidia, etc), usually hardware quality isn't that much of an issue, it's more of the original hardware design.

How about this http://www.zoneminder.com/ I think it works with those cheap $20-30 cards on ebay...

They are a Avermedia reseller. http://www.aver.com/products/security.shtml

Anyone know how to get the Eyemax software to work?

Have you asked any programmers who know assembly to crack the software for you? If it is basic protection it may not be too hard and since you said the company is out of business then there shouldn't be a concern over copyright... right? On a side note, anyone been able to get the Eye Max Dvr software working with the Anykeeper cards? It looks like the same cards and same company but that is the newest version of the software with some nice looking features...

Hello, How's this for a waterproof outdoor cheap night/day camera? http://www.goodysquare.com/security/cameraCB1031.html Thanks! Timmah

Ah, it's next to a light switch line, I'll move it and see what happens... Thanks

I have a 100' A/V + power cable with a mic attached to it, it seems that I am getting some interference and it is causing my dvr card to make a nasty whining sound. When I connect it to just a speaker it makes a buzzing. When I connect the mic directly to the DVR or speaker it's perfect, any idea on what I can do to help with the interference? Thanks!

Yes, the Lorous are very nice and quality i'm sure is top notch, but they are 10x as much, that extra money could buy a lot of things to put it in . I guess it just comes down to the right tool for the right job. Here is the company that manufactures these: http://www.misumi.com.tw/ They even have one that has a > 63db s/n ratio but it's like $30 wholesale. DC 12V RCA Female Output Frequency : 20 -16000Hz S/N ratio : more than 63 db W/50 cm cable 6x18x8 mm