Aroundincircles

Hi 'Orange Security', I appreciate the follow-up advice and explanation. I'm just wondering how it's possible that there is no difference in the different ethernet cables because I've read they have differing impedance/resistance.

Hi 'TomCCTV', Nope, I definitely was not brushing aside any of the advice I got here. I sincerely appreciate it and I've learned from it! I'm just paranoid about taking the leap for this project. It's a lot of money for me and I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I should clarify that I made a mistake in my first post about the camera quantities. I initially said I have Eight of these: CM-HDA10W-DMA-SGS Two of these: CM-HDA10W-BU-SGS But in fact, it's the other way around. Two of these: CM-HDA10W-DMA-SGS Eight of these: CM-HDA10W-BU-SGS So I have ten cameras in the kit, but only two of them are audio-enabled. So ... the other cable types I mentioned, I guess I will ignore and stick with regular CAT5e (I assume you meant 5e and not plain 5??) cable with HD passive baluns. I understand that TVI is some sort of 'intermediate' technology between analog and IP-based cameras/DVRs, but I'm not clear on why you mentioned that. (??)

Hi 'TomCCTV', ... and all, I spent about a half hour yesterday trying to get Night Owl's tech support to explain how this video and audio over coax can be set up. I think I'm going to have to conduct a test on my own to see if/how this works. If it does, it's good news I guess. If it doesn't, I'm likely going to go with cable similar to one of these two types: Belden’s 5288US (http://www.belden.com/techdatas/english/5288US.pdf) though I'm hoping to find a non-plenum version (even by another brand). I also saw this other ‘composite’ cable on Anixter's site: (https://www.anixter.com/en_ca/products/7952A-337500/BELDEN/Multi-Pair-Multi-Conductor-Cable/p/B7952A) The only confusion is that the picture of the cable shows two 14AWG conductors, but the spec sheet mentions four 14AWG conductors. Either of those cables will more than do the job. They might be overkill, but I'd like to go with Ethernet cabling in case I ever want to go with IP cameras one day, and these will last. Thank you all for your help!

Hi 'Tomcctv'. Hmmm.... I thought that that's what you meant about video and audio, but I'm not sure that's correct because the audio-enabled cameras have a separate RCA cable for the audio, and the BNC cable for the video (and one with the female end for the power). Also, my DVR doesn't mention 'Lite' anywhere on it. That DVR doesn't seem to be on Night Owl's site anymore, but I've found the specs elsewhere and no mention is made of the audio and video sharing a cable. But let's say that that was the case, how would the signal know how to be split at the DVR end? What kind of dongle/balun/splitter/pigtail/etc. would be used? Other than not using another cable for audio, what would be the benefit to sending audio and video over the same RG59 or the same pair(s) in ethernet? Is there any chance you could provide a link to a schematic or example where someone has set this up this way? Thanks.

Hi 'tomcctv', Thanks for the reply. The recorder I'll be using is the "dvr-hda10pb-16". HD, 1080P, analog. Can I ask you to clarify what you meant by saying "audio is with video data." ? Thanks!

Hi 'Orange Security', Thanks for the reply. Definitely only pure copper conductors. So... it remains a toss-up between CAT5e/6 and RG59. From your, and 'the toss' experience in the field, it sounds like either type of cable will do the job. Does it just come down to cost? Will ethernet with 10 pairs of baluns likely cost more or will it cost less than RG59? And yes, the cable will be outside, but regardless of type of cable I end up using, it's going to be run through PVC piping, although considering our temperature range around here, I should get the one best rated for outdoor exposure. Thanks again.

Hi 'Orange Security', Thanks for the reply. This is where my confusion kicks in. CAT5e has AWG of 24 and CAT6 has AWG of 23. I am uncertain of their impedance/resistance/what-have-you to be able to properly use an online voltage drop calculator. I understand Ohm's law, I just don't understand how to calculate the resistance over the length required. Whatever calculations I tried, it seemed like I would need something like 10 pairs of an ethernet cable to get the right voltage to the cameras.... which would mean having to run 25-pair cable, which I knew to be ridiculous. Also, there is an issue with regards to the two audio-enabled cameras in the that they would need at least one of the four pairs which would reduce the pairs for power to just two, which may introduce too much voltage drop to the camera. If you can clarify what needs to be done with the cabling for the two audio-enabled cameras, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again.

Hi 'the toss', Thanks again for the reply. A giant smack to my forehead with regards to typing 'RG56' rather than the 'RG59'. There are times when a certain misspelling of a word, or a wrong acronym or number gets stuck in my head... and that's it. In my head I knew I was referring to the siamese cable (i.e. RG6 with 18/2)..... However, you mentioned using 14/020 cable, of which I'd never even heard mention on any website or cable supplier's site. In fact, when I did a quick search for images of this kind of cable, all the results were from Australian websites. I'm wondering if this is just used there... hmmm.

Hi 'the toss', Thanks for your reply. Here are the clarifications you needed and a couple of follow-up questions. Both types of cameras are 1080p HD Analog, and yes they are equipped with IR for night vision. Questions: Just to clarify, are you saying that for an analog camera on RG56 or even CAT5e/CAT6 (with solid cores) that the distance of 100' or even 150' is not a concern with regards to voltage drop? Is there any chance you can show me how you calculated this, because any online voltage drop calculator I've tried to use always came up with insufficient voltage at that distance. You mentioned 'quality RG56'. Can you tell me what distinguishes a quality one from a cheap one? I ask because even good brands make cheap versions. No cables are being buried. I only said that I'd even looked at direct-burial in case they carried the electrical current better. But if I'll be using RG56 or CAT5e/CAT6, I will still run them through PVC pipes. Thanks for the advice on not going through the electrical panel. I just figured since the phone companies did it... But I'll figure out another place to drill the hold for the bundle of cables. Even though the original kit came with the 1.5A power adapters, the camera company representative said I could use a 1A adapter since I would have to put one adapter per camera at the cable distances I am going to be using (i.e. 100'-150'). Would this make a difference for the better or worse in terms of voltage arriving at the cameras? And finally, do you have any advice on using the power distribution boxes rather than the individual adapters? Anything to watch out for when considering those boxes (again, there seem to be very many models. I was considering the ones with the self-resetting fuses). Thanks again.

Of all the responses I’ve read on this and other sites, formulae, numbers and models of equipment, I haven't been able to use the voltage drop calculators I've found to make clear sense to me as to what cables and adapters I need to power my cameras properly. I have the following analog cameras: Eight of these: CM-HDA10W-DMA-SGS Two of these: CM-HDA10W-BU-SGS The camera specs indicate they need a power supply of 12V/1.5A, and each camera uses a maximum of 4W. That’s my first question. Does that mean that each camera only draws 0.33A??? The kit came with DC adapters (model CS-1201500) each having specs for an input of 0.5A, and output of 1.5A. The kit also had a number of 4-way splitters for the DC adapters so that four cameras could be powered off of one adapter. The cameras came in a kit with pre-made, 60', BNC, 24AWG, cables. I don't want to use these cables because even when just testing them new out of the box, the connectors were shaky. So, I'm looking at buying and running better bulk cable, and crimping my own ends on them. Whether BNC or Ethernet for video is yet to be determined, and is partially dependent on what kind of cable I need to ensure sufficient power for each cable run. Each camera will be approximately 100’ to 150’ from the DVR. The cables will be run outside the house, so I will likely have to use either direct-burial variants of whichever cable, or PVC piping. Either way, the cost seems to be about the same. I have looked at CAT5e, CAT6, RG56, and several other, thicker types of multi-core cables, and I’ve even considered running 12/2 for just the electrical and CAT5e or CAT6 for the video and audio. I’ve read about voltage drop, cable impedance, and a few other blurred topics. Each example/explanation warns of varying degradations or impending doom if the wrong kind of cable is used over the longer distances. For that matter, I’ve heard 100’ being referred to as a short distance as well as a long one…. It’s all relative. This begs my next questions. For the 100’ to 150’ runs, can I use CAT5e, should I get CAT6, or should I use another combination of cables? Are there differences to consider for the video and audio? If Ethernet is the way to go, should I get solid core, or stranded core? With regards to baluns (from being used, with all the different types and vendors out there, I have not seen any feedback about quality or differences. Are all baluns more or less the same or are there component qualities/properties to consider? I am also trying to decide if I should be plugging all these DC adapters into a power strip that’s plugged into a UPS, or if I should use one of those power distribution boxes and just skip the DC adapters altogether. If the latter, is there a way to have the distribution box protected by a UPS? Either way, I will likely be asking an electrician to install an outlet for all of this on its own breaker (for which I assume 15A should be enough). And finally… in terms of bringing all the cabling into the house, I’m going to be bringing in all the cable runs through one hole, and I’m considering making this hole come into the electrical panel. I was thinking of stowing the DVR in there as well because there aren’t really any other places to hide the DVR and cable bundle. Does anyone know if this is likely to cause too much interference? Many, many thanks in advance.