kaysadeya

I don't have any clients, so the best resource I have for used CCTV stuff is ebay...

A few differences between a bullet and CS camera that come to mind are: * No auto iris (an important feature when a camera is used outdoors) * No backlight control or other types of adjustments * on many you can't change lenses or adjust the focus The downside is that the CS cameras are more intrusive and require a housing if used outdoors. The upside of having a housing, however, is that it’s already there if you want to upgrade to a better CS camera in the future. There’s a place for all types of cameras. But when it comes to versatility, I can’t find a better value than a used B&W CS camera.

One which side of the camera was that? But seriously, what you say about the need for camera quality is completely true. But some of us homeowners just can’t justify a huge CCTV budget, so we have to set priorities and work within limited parameters. What I'm talking about are pretty decent used B&W cameras that are still for sale new for around $150-$200 with AI lenses that are still for sale for around $100+. Relative (and I emphasize RELATIVE) to the deal you can get on a DVR, used cameras in general are – at this point in time – a screaming bargain. In my system, I have used CS cameras, new and older bullet cameras, and new $400 day/night cameras. (The older bullet cameras I've had for years and they're still working fine.) If I had the budget, there’s no question that I’d rather have the day/nighters everywhere. But it just doesn’t make financial sense, so I “settleâ€

Can't argue with the value of a good camera. However, a person on a tight budget might find it best to spread out the cost of the system over months or years. At this point in time, it’s hard to find a good used DVR, but there are plenty of good used cameras on the market. I suspect this is because businesses upgrade their CCTV hardware every few years and, because they can depreciate their old hardware, they basically give it away to the people who sell surplus hardware. You don’t need to spend much time on Ebay to see this trend. So the result is, you can buy a good, used professional-quality camera for less than you’d pay for a cheapy budget camera. These cameras are out of banks and other commercial establishments; so if they were good enough to monitor those locations last year, they’re good enough for my backyard this year. Because DVRs in general are relatively new, the same value opportunities do not yet exist when shopping for a DVR.

PoorOwner, I've posted this before but will repeat it here. I've discovered that the best approach to building a CCTV system on a budget is to first get the best DVR you can. You can buy used B&W cameras and decent-quality housings (brand new) on E-bay. If you know what you’re looking for and careful with your bidding, you can put together a professional-quality camera/lens/housing combination for less than $80. The cameras wouldn’t be state-of-the-art day/nighters, but will do the job nicely. So, for example, with $1000, you could budget $800 for a DVR and $200 for two used B&W cameras. With B&W cameras you’ll also have the option to add an IR illuminator to your system should you later decide that you need nighttime coverage. Eventually you may want to upgrade to quality day/night cameras, but you can take your time and wait for them to become more affordable.

Right. It's a Kodicom KSD516. The original one I received was a dud, but the replacement is a very nice unit. I'll write up a full review after I've had more experience with it.

You hit on my favorite topic .... If you dig more into this forum, you'll discover most of the "affordable" DVRs are “rebrandedâ€

Good question. I was going to recommend you search for some specific strings, but recalled that you can only search for one word across all topics.

Check these threads: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1740 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1786 http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1658

One other point: Any color day/night camera with those cheesy little built-in IR LEDs will work with your illuminator. If you want color, you can always go with one of those. The built-in LEDs probably won't be of any use at that distance, but at least the camera will work with your illuminator.

I suggest we start a "Users Only" topic. All established dealers are banned from participation. Please vote.

Creating a Hall of Fame/Shame for CCTV documents is a good idea (better than a User’s Only topic, I guess). I can see from the Kodicom DVR user guide that the company was really serious about trying to produce a good document. The presentation is really very professional. But, as you say, I suspect the task of transporting the knowledge from the Korean-speaking engineers to the English-speaking writer was too much of a challenge. But what’s worse is that the English-speaking writer obviously had no clue about the DVR or much of an interest in exploring it enough to learn how to ask the right questions and effectively communicate its operation to his or her reader. My guess is that the writer was a highly paid contractor who did a one-off job in a very limited timeframe and then moved on. This is a classic mistake a lot of companies make. Most pointy-haired managers think that any ex-high school teacher can drop in for a few weeks and produce a good technical document. Think of all the customer and support man-hours that are wasted because of bad documentation. One little detail can cost countless people days of needless frustration and lost productivity. Good documentation is proactive support and it is much cheaper than reactive support.

Thanks Cooperman. One other thought about the "support" topic. It may be worth the effort for many of you professionals to pressure manufacturers for better documentation on their products. For example, what at first looked like a very good user guide for my DVR turned out to be a real disappointment after trying to actually understand how to configure the thing and make use of its many features. Rory and I spent a whole weekend trying to figure out how to get my PC client to connect to the DVR over the network. But there was one detail that was missing from the equation that was not at all clear from the error messages and documentation. In the end, I was forced to make a support call to my supplier. All of this time and effort on everyone’s part could have been saved if they had written a more complete user guide for the DVR. My "day job" is writing technical documentation and I learned a looong time ago that you have to first understand the technology before you can communicate its use to others. The user guide for my DVR was obviously written by a “professional writerâ€

I'll take that as a compliment (or at least a nod). Thanks. I'd like to again state that I have a lot of respect for those of you who have learned your craft well and for generously sharing your knowledge with the rest of us on this forum. Many of the members here (Rory and Cooperman, to name a few) treat both dealers and DIYers with equal respect. As with any successful web forum, the objective is to share information, not to withhold it for only the select few who know the secret handshake. What ticks me off is the contempt some of you exhibit for your customers and end users in general. Just because someone is uneducated on the details of CCTV doesn't make them a "luser." How about a "user in need of a better education"? Sure, installing CCTV stuff is both an art and a science and users have a lot to learn. However, consider that, just as us DIYers learn from the professionals here, maybe some of you professionals could also learn from some of us DIYers. For example, a little humility and how to better deal with your clients. The fuel that feeds a good web forum is mutual respect. This forum has a lot of potential, but flipping off non-dealers is counterproductive. By the way, bryan1656, the point of this poll was to start a dialog on the exclusive nature of the Dealer's Only topic. I was never serious about a User's Only topic.

Any other DIYers care to weigh in? No?! Wimps!

This thread has taken on a defensive tone. Many of you have commented on how you "won't sell to DYIers because you don't want to answer their stupid questions..." Think about where the PC industry would be with that attitude. No doubt the same thing was said inside the board rooms of HP and IBM (oh, and Burroughs, DEC, Control Data, etc.) back in the 70's.

Kays?

I have two Samsung 721s that I'm evaluating. As I've already noted, there's a BIG problem with the transition from day-to-night mode. One camera is positioned in the direction of the setting sun and there are also some "issues" associated with that camera. But overall, these cameras are a class act.

Hey, I'd spend a few daze in Fresno if Pelco would pay for the digs. Sign me up! (Then I could ask them why they've been sitting on my order for housings and mounts for two weeks). ....Did I say that out loud?

Anyone know of a good place to get some 4-pin AI lens connectors? I have some older video iris zooms I need to adapt to the newer 4-pin sockets on my cameras. The only place I've been able to locate them is spytown: http://www.spytown.com//4pindinautir.html Does anyone else carry these connectors?

Thanks Cooperman. So the basic idea is to get the wire *inside* the pin, rather wrapped around it.

Come on.. Can someone throw me a bone?!

Rory, who has experience with high-end DVRs, reviewed this low-end DVR: http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1633

Rory, I've never known you to make a joke...

I'm coming up with zipo on a search for 'Powertellecomm dvr'. I assume these are rebranded units. What are the rebranded names?