mcbink

Hi All, Recently read a comment on here that IP Cameras, can store video using Cloud at home. I was aware storage is possible at the NVR using a HDD and Web storage via a paid internet site. But someone on here said you only needed local Cloud at home with no internet. Can anyone explain how this works. Recording directly to cloud storage at home without internet access?

I have a Swann DVR at the moment, but may plan to move to NVR and IP Cameras in the future, maybe NAS too. I have been looking at the Synology (NAS, Network Attached Storage) system and think it is a possibility but I'm not sure if I would really need it. So far as I can see you pay a fee if you want to add more than two cameras. I have not looked to see if it is a monthly fee or a one off fee. It does seem that the Synology system allows you to manage the storage yourself, rather than have paid storage by an internet cloud service that could be accessed by the cloud provider, so has it's advantages. Paying to store surveillance video where other people could view it, is like saying, I have something worth looking at so don't peek! It's one of the areas that I need to look at in depth. The DVR HD system I have, is basic, but works. One problem is that it's basic and I'd like some features like thumbnail viewing when searching through stored footage as this can help reduce the time spent pinpointing an event. I'd also want a system that records to the full extent of MP on all cameras not just a couple of channels then downgraded to half the MP on the rest which is pretty useless in my view. You have given me some food for thought Tom, Cheers.

Web storage via paid internet site ....... is basically your renting space on someone else’s server.... there are lots of ways to set it up....... you could even ask a member of your family to host space on there pc / server Or use your own and have it local .... hidden in loft .... you only need a hard drive hub connected to your router...... and you can access that local without any internet or you can make it available over wan. Always safer to build your own and better and no stupid monthly costs for each camera . And also paid cloud is like giving a stranger access to your camera system Web storage via paid internet site ....... is basically your renting space on someone else’s server.... there are lots of ways to set it up....... you could even ask a member of your family to host space on there pc / server Or use your own and have it local .... hidden in loft .... you only need a hard drive hub connected to your router...... and you can access that local without any internet or you can make it available over wan. Always safer to build your own and better and no stupid monthly costs for each camera . And also paid cloud is like giving a stranger access to your camera system Thank's Tom, I need to look at this in depth. I have not found info on how to link a camera directly to a HDD without using some sort of software via the internet yet, but from your reply it seems to be possible. Maybe I'm having a problem grasping the technology. What I was wondering is can you go directly from a camera to HDD to store video via Local wireless system? I'm guessing you still need some video management software to organise the footage. Using a PC means having a PC on all the time which is why I wondered if you could store directly from the camera to a HDD.

I read this reply and thought I'd try it on a similar basis with my Swann 4750 DVR.........NOT WORKED FOR ME! I have been using a USB extender cable with a Asus mouse and had good results. The USB extension cable was purchased by recommendation for the distance I required. This works ok with the Asus mouse but fails when I use the supplied Swann mouse. I tried using the Logitec 185 attached to the end of my USB extension cable with no luck, the pointer just stopped working. I then re-set the DVR and plugged the Logitec receiver directly into the DVR and agian the pointer just froze. Each time I had to turn off the DVR to bring things back to normal. I guess this wireless mouse might work for some systems but obviously not for others.

Yes that's called genuine products. We're talking gray / copy / counterfeit products. With CE mark with no inspection. The Chinese government was asked about miss use of the CE mark Which they copy exact....... They call it China export logo No, I referenced an article about "The Sale of Grey Goods and Uk Law" but that's not to say do not have valid points in respect of copy/counterfeit goods and CE marking.

No such thing as rejected CE mark ......... It's rejected before conformity. Gray / copy market ....... The CE is not real The manufacturer who holds the CE conformity...... Is where the liability starts It depends why the goods are rejected, they may conform to specific CE standards but rejected for other reasons not related to the specific CE standard. Throwing the CE marking into this is just sidetracking the post and does nothing to provide anything to the contrary that "Sale of Grey Goods being subject to Criminal Liability in the UK". Chinese Manufacturers can easily produce goods to meet CE standards. I buy goods all the time that used to be manufactured in Germany and the UK but are now manufactured in China. Top brand names, all CE marked, and that I can register at the brand name website.

Where did the Judge restrict his judgement, regarding the "sale of Gray marked goods", solely, to Jeans and designer clothes? Part of the Judges decision below: ” Writing for the court, Judge Rook continued on to state: “In some cases moreover (for example, electrical goods or toys) very real issues of public health and safety can arise where the goods are fake or, even if originally manufactured with the trade mark proprietor's authorization, are then rejected as sub-standard but nevertheless sold on without authorization.” Looking at what the Judge wrote. I would take it that goods genuinely intended for the UK market could have CE mark but have been rejected and still sold on the Uk market without Authorisation, and so subject to criminal Law. CE marking was not at the centre of the post, it was the judges decision relating to the "sale of "Gray Goods" and the UK Law.

Better tell the UK Judge then Tom, LoL. USA legislation on Gray market goods is not the same as UK Legislation. From what I can make out, Tom, it's not illegal to import Gray market goods but in the UK the selling of un-authorised Gray market goods might be subject to criminal sanctions. So it seems that sellers of gray market goods are the ones that may be breaking the law. I guess you will have to look into the legal judgments of cases to see how this may effect sellers of gray market goods in the UK. Of course if you are selling the goods from China then it's not going to have much effect, LOL. I don't think goods officially intended for distribution in the UK are a problem, even if they are sold by un-authorised sellers, it's the gray market goods from what I understand.

Thank you

Hi all just a quick question, do IP cameras have to be activated via the internet before you can use them?

The Sale of Gray Market Goods is Now Subject to Criminal Liability in the UK The recent Court of Appeals decision in the United Kingdom has confirmed that the sale of gray market goods can bring about criminal sanctions under UK trademark laws. According to a decision from earlier this month, the Court of Appeals Criminal Division held that the sale of gray market goods (or parallel imports, as they are sometimes known) – genuine goods purchased outside a manufacturer's intended chain of distribution and imported to compete with authorized domestic sales, generally at lower prices – is not merely a civil offense but a criminal one. Not merely a trivial ruling, this distinction means that offenders could face a sentence of 10 years’ imprisonment. The case centers on the legality of the sale of authentic Ralph Lauren, Adidas, Under Armour, Jack Wills, and Fred Perry garments and accessories by parties that were not authorized to do so by the aforementioned brands. According to the plaintiffs’ complaint, the defendants were “engaged in the United Kingdom in importing and selling branded goods which were both manufactured and [initially] sold with the authorization of the [plaintiffs] in a country outside the European Union.” The plaintiffs further allege that “these include, or may include, goods which had been part of an order placed with an authorized manufacturer by the trade mark proprietor but then cancelled; goods part of a batch whose manufacture had been authorized but which, after manufacture, were rejected as not being of sufficient standard; or goods manufactured, pursuant to an order, with authority but in excess of the required amount.” Because the goods at issue were largely authentic, the issue was not one of trademark infringement or counterfeiting, in which an individual would only be held liable if the goods are counterfeit goods – aka if they feature a mark made to look identical to or substantially indistinguishable from an actual, federally registered trademark, with the intention of causing consumer confusion about the source of the counterfeit goods or services. Here, the case, instead, focused on whether or notan individual can be held criminally liable for selling gray market – authentic, yet questionably obtained and resold – goods. In particular, the court was faced with the question: “Can a criminal offense be committed under s. 92(1)(b) or © of the Trade Marks Act 1994 (the statute that governs trademark infringement) where the [holder] of the registered trademark has given its consent to the application of the registered trademark to the goods, but has not given its consent to the sale, distribution or possession of them?" CRIMINAL LIABILITY AND GRAY MARKET GOODS IN THE UK While liability (or lack thereof) for the sale of gray market goods in the U.S. has largely come from civil statutes (namely, copyright and trademark doctrines), the court here found that criminal liability may be the appropriate body of law. According to the court, “Trademark violation gravely undermines the value of a brand and affects legitimate trade. The very fact of a cheap sale of an unauthorized branded item can both dupe a customer and diminish the market and overall value of the trademark, in terms of perception of quality and exclusivity.” Writing for the court, Judge Rook continued on to state: “In some cases moreover (for example, electrical goods or toys) very real issues of public health and safety can arise where the goods are fake or, even if originally manufactured with the trade mark proprietor's authorization, are then rejected as sub-standard but nevertheless sold on without authorization.” With this in mind, Rook stated that he aimed to balance “the often unscrupulous conduct of some of those determined to exploit their own advantage and the detriment of proprietors and consumers.” Looking to “the wording of Section 92; (2) earlier legal authority; (3) public policy,” Rook held that the wording “a sign identical to, or likely to be mistaken for a registered trademark” in Section 92 clearly includes circumstances where the registered mark itself has been applied, whether with or without the proprietor’s consent. In terms of the second point, previous authority, the court reviewed the leading textbook on trademarks, Kerly’s Law of Trade Marks, which outlined that s. 92 has a broad application and is capable of extending to gray market goods. Furthermore, the recent decision of Genis [2015] EWCA Crim 2043 was a binding authority, outlining that a conviction was safe even where a mark had initially been applied with the proprietor’s consent. Finally, the court held that public policy crucially highlighted how a cheap sale of an unauthorized brand can serve both to dupe a customer, diminish the mark and overall value of the trade mark and explained that a “very real issue of public health and safety [which] can arise where the goods are rejected as substandard but nevertheless sold without authorization.” While Judge Rook acknowledged that the decision to extend criminal liability to the sale of gray market goods may lead to tough outcomes in certain cases, the high burden of proof to establish a criminal offense and the fact that criminal sanctions are not applied when individuals have acted honestly and reasonably, will provide a sound balance.

Just read right through this post and done some research buying from China. It can seem a bargain to buy Hikvision from China and if everthing goes ok that's great BUT if something goes wrong or you want Hikvision 3 year warranty and technical support it's not so great Buying from China does not give you the same right as buying in your own country from an Hikvision Authorised seller. You have very little right to return a faulty product purchased from China and if the seller will allow you to make a return, it will likely be at your cost and be far more expensive if you do have to do a return than if you bought in your own country in the first place . Buying from China is going to pose some risk in the transaction SOME RISK, Until Chinese sellers start selling goods with the same return, warranty and customer support as we have in the west.

Well since your involving me in your posts ...... Ok I will correct you NVR ......Network Video Recorder. Simple mistake for someone who has never used one. But you are right IP cameras can recorded to NVR or SD card .........but your wrong in saying you need to Internet access for anything else. It's a rookie mistake that people think you need Internet for a IP setup. You only need a LAN network (local area network) and that allows more recording options ...... PC with vms ....local cloud....raid. Only time you need Internet or WAN is if you want off site storage or cameras are in another location (miles away) or to have the ability to view your system when away from you LAN. Your right with options DVR or NVR. But there is also hybrid .......which most DVRs these days are. Cheers Tom, 1. First let me thank you for the correction where I said "Storage" and should have said "Video", when referencing "Network Video Recorder", it was a slip that just came out wrong, still better to be corrected. 2. Again, cheers for the addition of further information regarding on site storage options with IP cameras. I was not aware of the amount of options and so did not list them all, but again it's good to be given the correct information, thank you

Hi ian2000t, Just wondered how you are doing with your search Ian? I know it is very difficult when you start looking because there is can be some confusion with the two main different types of system: "HD Analogue Camera + DVR"...... V..... "IP Camera + NVR". They can both produce HD quality video, they can both record to a recorder and either system can be used for surveillance in a home or business. You can link both systems up to the internet and so can have access by either system to a phone, Ipad or Android. Both systems will cope with motion detection and both systems have a pretty comprehensive array of thing they can do regarding recording video, storage, viewing, playback etc. I think the main difference, that I know of. 1. Analogue HD Cameras need to connect to a DVR to convert the Analogue Cameras signal to Digital. The DVR receives the Analogue signal from the Camera and converts it at the DVR to Digital signal. Once converted to Digital the signal can be sent via the internet and on to your Phone etc. 2. IP Cameras can connect directly to the internet and don't need an NVR. IP Camera convert signal at the camera to Digital form. As the video footage is already digital you can connect an IP camera directly to the internet, either by Ethernet cable or wirelessly via your router. If you do not use an NVR (Network Storage Recorder) to record your video at home and still want to record the video from the camera, you will need an IP camera with either onboard storage such as a SD card or you will need to have access to store video on the internet. That's about all I know and I'm ok with being corrected........ TOM. Let us know how you are getting on with your search Ian.

Tom take a look, Hickvision seem happy with them, if you are not, do something about it, complain to Hickvision not me as it's not constructive to complain to me I can't do anything for you on this one Tom Maybe I won't by a Hickvision NRV I've not decided but I agree I do still need to do a bit more homework and I will take seriously what you have said so far about Hickvision NVR's Tom. Forget about my friend, I only want to go to the vip bash if I can sit next to you Tom.

"CCTVTec Trade" are Hickvision Authorised, and by Hickvision. They will price match too if asked, I know because I have asked and they did. I should say that's all a buyer needs to know. Ask away about my Swann kit by all means. It works just fine Tom, and I don't have any complaints about the purchase price as when I purchased it I could not find anything that I considered any better for £245. I did not investigate CCTV too deeply before I made the purchase Tom, maybe a couple of weeks or so but in that two weeks it was pretty hard to find a system for £245 that could beat it. 6 x3megapixel cameras, 2T hard drive, DVR, mouse, 18 months warranty, 24/7 endless technical support, all leads and DC power supplies included, free links to use apps with the system for mobile phone, Ipad and Android, technical help with setting things up if needed. The Swann kit had competitive pricing and all the help I needed whenever I needed it right at the end of a phone. It's was just a very easy way to start off in CCTV. So why change or upgrade? Well I knew the Swann kit was a budget kit and it would probably have it's weaknesses but you don't really get to find out what they might be until you try do you. I was never going to break a sweat parting with £245 for a kit like the one I got from Swann and moving on has always been what I intended. I'll let one of my family have it when I upgrade so no loss there. I have already purchased one extra camera to complement the Swann Kit a variofocal 2.8mm to 12mm lens and intend buying another very soon, these will keep me going while I decide jut what I want. I think I could get a really good system for around £1200-1700 but I still need to look into things a bit more before I part with that sort of cash Tom. Swann are ok at the budget end if you can get a deal like I did but their higher priced systems are definitely not worth it (just my opinion). The Hickvisoin sellers I mentioned before are the companies I'll likely look to when I go ahead, they seem reputable companies to me. I hope the OP is able to make some use of all this. If noting else it might spark a few ideas. The heads up about Hickvision software should prove to be a useful consideration for future purchases.

Tom, sorry but I need to correct you again, I checked on Hickvision UK's web site and found that "CCTVTec Trade" are in fact Autorised by Hickvision, you can check for yourself. I sent an email today asking "CCTVTec Trade", if CCTVTec are part of their group and also AUTORISED by HICKVISION, they just replied and confirmed CCTVTec are Autorised by HICKVISION. I've posted this so the OP can see that we, the UK public, do have quite a few places that we can buy Authoried Hickvision items from. The UK has somewhere around 65 million people (lots of money) and the fifth biggest economy in the world (lots of spenders) so I don't think Hickvision would be very happy with just a couple of Authorised outlets. The OP might be interested to know that Highwatch are a series by Hickvision and come in a fare bit cheaper. They are more of a budget friendly range and priced more like Swann. You would probably get a hard drive thrown in with a Highwatch kit (or maybe not) they are worth considering as well as Hickvision. Cheers all

Are you sure you need 2500 feet of cable because that is just under half a mile, so one hell of a distance? You could use a video amplifier with RG59 Coax cable to run that distance (info found on CC Camera Pros Web Site, 3000ft with Amplifier) but I can't confirm myself. You would have to check about the PTZ function though to see if that would still work as well as the video signal.

Bask to Basics. BE aware that most HICKVISION DVR's and NVR's dont't have a Hard Drive already installed and you may have to buy and install one after your purchase. This could add £100 or so to your purchase so it's worth knowing. I'm by no means a CCTV expert, I don't sell them or install them but I do own one. It's a Swann 4750 8 channel Analogue HD DVR system that can record at 3 megapixel and came as a kit with Six 3 megapixel cameras and a 2 T Hard Drive, the current price on the Swann site is for the DVR and six 3 megapixel cameras including hard drive is £399 but I purchased mine just after New year 2018 for £245. It worked straight out of the box with minimal effort setting it up. The Cameras can detect movement, they have IR lights for night vision, and have the ability to be adjusted for lighting etc conditions from the DVR. The DVR can be set for TVI and AHD cameras, it can be programmed for movement sensitivity, alarms, you can set the cameras to Motion detection, full time recording etc. It is a very good starter kit but it's a budget kit and has it's weaknesses. The cameras are probably the greatest weakness in that the video picture look good in night vision mode until something moves then because they are caught out by moving objects, they blur a bit. It's the same with all budget cameras they don't have the lens or electronics to cope with low light sufficiently enough to capture truly clear video. I'm not saying they are bad but they are not great fro night vision. So that's a kit for you to look at it's not bad but not great either. Camera wise you will struggle to buy more than two or three half decent cameras for your entire budget of £300-400 pounds never mind a recorder too. So when I say the Swann kit above is not great I mean it but again if you compare it to the cost of a couple of decent cameras it's ok for the price. Before you buy anything you really need to decide what quality video you want recorded and if quality night vision is important also what you need to view with the cameras because most kit cameras will struggle to obtain a good clear picture of someone down a long drive. If you think Kit cameras will not do what you want then do not buy a kit. Buy a recorder and cameras that will suite your needs. Budget wise I think you might be able to buy a recorder with two half decent cameras to start with but it would be a struggle so you might have to opt for a starter kit and work up from there same as I am. IP and NVR are generally more expensive than Analogue HD and you are not going to really get off the ground with £300-400, for purchasing a system that remotely resembles a SECURITY camera system (decent pictures) if you go IP and NVR so I'd forget that side of things for now and concentrate on building a quality basic kit that will at least be useful for capturing security video. What I am trying to say is that a Analogue HD system is likely to cost less and be more budget friendly for what you have to spend. A full HD 1080p Analogue system will generally be adequate for home use provided you use half decent cameras with the DVR. Personally I am now thinking about buying an NVR and IP system but am aware of the expense and have estimated an 8 camera system at around £1200 minimum to around £1700 tops but at that price range I should obtain good security features such as decent cameras capturing usable footage for recognition purposes. I may just stick with Analogue HD and just upgrade the DVR and add some better cameras but I still expect to part with upwards of £1000 for decent cameras and I'd still want to upgrade the DVR.

It may not see to be helping you but people are discussing the matters you raise in depth so if you bear with it, you might end up with the right information. A lot of people post questions on here that never receive a reply. Believe it or not. you seem to be one of the lucky ones.

Not having an answer is not a problem Tom, I just thought you might be able to clarify what you had put. Hickvision seem to have: Authorised Partners, Authorised Wholesalers , Autorised Local Resellers, Highwatch Authorised Dealers. The above terms are sightly different but they are all "Authorised" I think the main thing to enquire about before making a purchase is will you be able to register the Hickvision product with Hickvision, have you got the Hickvision 3 year Guarantee and is it upgradable, at least that would be my question. Buying from ebay might be tricky but from an established UK dealer you have the confidence of protection from UK law relating to trade descriptions. Buying a kit can save money, Tom, but as you are probably very well aware, kits often bundle cameras that all have the same lens and kit's often bundle lens in either a 2.8mm or 3.5mm. A 2.8mm or 3.5mm lens will generally be suitable for wide angle applications where the view angle is required to be wide but maybe definition a long distance is not required. If you want a camera with a different view for example longer range with narrower view to see down to the end of a driveway and focus on the gates then a different purpose is required of the camera and you will need to add a camera with a different lens that has longer range. It would be Interesting to know more about what you say about Hickvision software Tom. Are the software changes not just simply improvements to enhance and compliment what is already in place?

Thank you Tom for your reply. RF Concepts I recently made a purchase from RF Concepts and although I am sad to say one item had to be returned it was pretty easy and painless. knowing that you endorse this company is quite reassuring (pricing is competitive too). CCTVTek I am surprised, Tom, that you say this company are not a HICKVISION AUTORISED WHOLESELLER because they have a Hickvision logo on their site stating that they are? This is also what they have on their site Tom: "CCTVTEK Authorised Hikvision Wholesaler Partner in the UK" I would have thought that Hickvision UK would have taken action against this company if they were illegally describing their trading status with Hickvision UK. So Tom just to clarify if possible you say "so only two" but also say ONLY USE-IP is a HIckvision Authorised Distributor of Hickvision? So what are RF Concepts then? apart from a very honest large trading company in the UK? What I am asking are they Authorised by Hickvision to sell Hickvision? Do you have an answer TOM ? I also need to correct you Tom: USE-IP Don't only sell Cameras as you said above because they also advertise and Sell Hickvision NVR's , they also sell CCTV Lighting, Door Entry Systems and the list goes on. RF Concepts also advertise Hickvision, DVR's and NVR's as well as Hickvision cameras. CCTVTek only seem to sell Hickvision products and they too also sell Hickvision Cameras, NVR's and DVR's.

Thank you Tom for your reply. RF Concepts I recently made a purchase from RF Concepts and although I am sad to say one item had to be returned it was pretty easy and painless. knowing that you endorse this company is quite reassuring (pricing is competitive too). CCTVTek I am surprised, Tom, that you say this company are not a HICKVISION AUTORISED WHOLESELLER because they have a Hickvision logo on their site stating that they are? This is also what they have on their site Tom: "CCTVTEK Authorised Hikvision Wholesaler Partner in the UK" I would have thought that Hickvision UK would have taken action against this company if they were illegally describing their trading status with Hickvision UK. So Tom just to clarify if possible you say "so only two" but also say ONLY USE-IP is a HIckvision Authorised Distributor of Hickvision? So what are RF Concepts then? apart from a very honest large trading company in the UK? What I am asking are they Authorised by Hickvision to sell Hickvision?

The below re-sellers of Hickvision are all in the UK all give assurances that their stock is UK Hickvision stock and with full warranty. The first 3 of the below state on their website that they are Autorised Hickvisin sellers. Number 4 below give an assurance that they sell Genuine Hickvision UK stock with Full support and warranty. 1. Ue-IP : https://www.use-ip.co.uk/hikvision-ds-2de3204w-de-mini-ptz.html 2. NETVIEW CCTV: 3. CCTVtek : https://www.cctvtek.co.uk 4. RF Concepts : https://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/hikvision.html It would be against UK trading standards to describe yourself falsely and all the above seem to be genuine UK traders that are established. If the above are not Autorised to sell Hickvision then would someone correct me. I am currently thinking of buying/upgrading my current equipment and the above are a few sellers that I have earmarked for Hickvision purchases. Check them out and let us know.

I'm new to this sort of thing but it looks like the: DS2CD2142FWDI(W)(S) is better all round. WDR is in the camera so looks like it does not rely on digital help like the IPC-D140, it has more frames per second, better motion detection, on board storage (SD Card), wireless capabilities etc. If you are fitting the camera in difficult lighting conditions the DS-2CD2142FWD-I (W)(S) would probably be the better option (even with the extra cost involved) but otherwise I guess it depends upon weather you want/need the extra spec. Just my opinion but I'd say if you can afford it go for the DS-2CD2142FWD-I (W)(S). If cost is important fit the DS-2CD2142FWD-I (W)(S) where you might have difficult lighting conditions only. Or buy one of each try them both out then decide on the rest.