jhonovich

It is at least months but it could be more than a year. They key thing for IndigoVision is how soon Axis releases ONVIF support in production products. The same question will be repeated for the other ONVIF members like Bosch and Sony. And, of course, it is common for manufacturers to pre-announce and delay the actual production release.

A key question really is when support for IP camera 'standards' will be available and usable for general deployment. Everything right now is prototype/test implementations and cannot be used in production. I think it's going to take (at least) 2 years before we can confidently use 'standards'. It could be longer depending on how the political issues sort themselves out. While I think standards are a good thing, I am very skeptical about claims that imply that standards will resolve a practical problem today or in the short term future.

There are a number of well known providers of low cost megapixel cameras: - for 1.3 MP, consider ACTi and Vivotek - for 2MP to 5MP, consider StarDot and Arecont Vision There are numerous threads talking about the quality of these cameras so I will decline from making any specific recommendations.

I created a directory that lists and embeds demo videos from various manufacturers. I hope this helps people save time finding new products: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/surveillance_camera_demo_directory_ip_megapixel_cctv

Hi Guys, I just released a new article on megapixel lens that I think you might be interested in: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/the_importance_of_megapixel_cameras Here's a summary of the key topics: - Many systems designers are not used to evaluating lens details because lens quality was generally not a significant issue with standard definition cameras. - Manufacturers now label their lenses "megapixel lenses" but generally do not disclose a quantitative measure of how 'megapixel' their lenses are - Line Pair per millimeter (LP/MM) is a widely accepted quantitative measurement of the resolving power of a lens; however it is rarely disclosed - Even with a given LP/MM, the performance of a megapixel camera still varies depending on the size of the camera's pixels

"from the manual In the Database Setup Wizard you will get the choice of using an existing SQL 2000/2005 Server on the network or setting up an SQL Server Express Edition (a lightweight, yet powerful, version of a full SQL server) on the Management Server computer itself." This (using a SQL database) applies only to the corporate version of Milestone's product. The basic, professional and enterprise version's use a proprietary database from Milestone. See http://www.milestonesys.com/files/UserFiles/Docs/products/Milestone%20XProtect%20Comparison%20Chart%20-%20Feb2009.pdf for a detailed breakdown on the differences between the versions.

From time to time, we have discussions on the value of megapixel cameras and the importance of image quality. The biggest problem I see here is the cost of storage. Even 16 camera systems can easily require tens of TBs of storage, which becomes a significant cost overall and on a per camera basis. I have posted an analysis of what I think these problems are: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/problems_video_surveillance_storage I know that a lot of members feel otherwise - that image quality is king and worrying over storage costs is a worry of the past. I'd be interested in you reading my analysis and providing feedback.

Hi Soundy, I agree with you that this is not a new issue. The importance of the issue has simply moved back up as high definition is more heavily marketed. By the way, the original article has been updated to reflect on our discussion. Thanks, John

Soundy, Thanks for your feedback. I agree with everything you are saying about lower cost for internal storage. The only points I would question are: 1) A lot of customers are locked into proprietary DVR systems that charge way more for storage (this is the reality for 80% of deployments). 2) I think you start facing this problem of needing expensive NAS/SAN solutions at lower camera counts than you imply in your comment: "Really, you don't usually get into the NEED for expensive NAS solutions until you're talking a half-dozen drives or more... at that point, you're probably talking about a pretty expensive system to begin with, for pretty high-end customers, where the additional money for the NAS system is not as big a concern. " With megapixel cameras, MJPEG, high frame rates, continuous recording, etc., these storage costs can balloon very quickly. I can recount numerous anecdotes from just this year when mainstream end users where shocked about the size of the quote for storage (and had to make cuts to accommodate budgets). I'd be interested in your feedback. I will update the article to reflect your input. Cheers, john

Hi Amir, Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I agree with you about the lower cost when using internal storage or NAS. And for your application and for people using low camera counts, short durations or low frames, this should be fine. The challenge that you get into is when you do larger projects with high frame rates and long durations. Then you need tens of TBs, exceeding consumer class NAS and internal storage. And, yes, I agree with you about the importance of more efficient CODECs. Finally, I agree that the industry is cavalier about the technically accuracy of terms used. Cheers, John

I believe 4MAX is referring to capturing faces. There are only a handful of companies that do that.

Mobotix only offers 3MP camera. You cannot buy a 1.3 or 2MP camera. You can owly buy the 3MP and then set the resolution lower. It's obviously inefficient if you do not need the full 3MP. You could save by buying a 1.3MP from IQinVision, etc.

Hi Guys, I recently released an article on Mobotix that reviews the offering and discusses strengths and weaknesses: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/mobotix_megapixel_video_surveillance_products I tend to think if you are going to use all Mobotix (cameras and management software), it makes a lot of sense. However, if you are going to use third party management software, it's a lot closer between Mobotix, IQinvision, Arecont, etc.

I just wrote an article speculating on the impact of the recession on the business: http://ipvideomarket.info/review/show/153 Key points include: * This recession is different from the last one * The debt market collapse will make users delay new purchases * Megapixel cameras will fare the best * DVRs will continue to decline slowly * A shakeout of NVR/IP Video software companies will occur * Video analytics will fare the worst What are you seeing with your customers?

This sums up my general problem my most megapixel advocates. Their advocacy often boils down to: 1. Look at the pretty pictures. 2. Cost is no object. I apologize for venting my frustration. However, each time I offer calculations and detailed cost estimates, commenters refuse to engage on a detailed and substantive level. I think megapixel cameras are the most exciting and important trend in the video surveillance industry. However, megapixel cameras have real issues - that's why less then 3% of all camera sales this year are megapixel - and it's not simply because people are too stupid to use them. I am happy to discuss these topics but please respond to my detailed points and calculations. If you think my calculations on cost or performance are incorrect, I am happy to be corrected on the facts. Best, john

From a security design perspective it is not possible to replace 4 analog cameras with a single 1.3 MP camera. Each analog camera is 640 x 480. A 1.3 MP camera is 1280 x 1024. While that is 4x the number of pixels, it is only 2x the width of FOV. For almost all surveillance applications, including lanes at a gas station or teller positions at a bank, it is the number of pixels wide that is the key consideration. Almost all applications have a very narrow range of height to cover. As such, a 1.3 MP camera can only cover twice the target area as an analog camera. If a 1.3 MP camera replaces more than 2 analog cameras, you are essentially guaranteed to have lower resolution than an analog camera.

Hi Erron, Thanks for the feedback. I have discussed your Aztech codec with Dave Nieweg a few months back and as I told him I think it's valuable. If you want to create a post just on Aztech for my site, feel free. That being said, Aztech and Avigilon are exceptions in megapixel bandwidth management. Almost all NVR providers have problems streaming megapixel cameras over low bandwidth links. As for your cost of megapixel analysis: - NVRs are cheaper than DVRs. Please be specific on how much cheaper. I would estimate $500 to $1000 cheaper from eliminating the capture card. However, megapixel cameras are ~ $500 more each. The total cost is still far more expensive. - Cat 5 is cheaper than coax. In a bank with such short cable runs, the difference in cost is negligible (plus most banks already have coax in place). - Megapixel's higher resolution: You can reduce camera count but then you are not really increasing the image quality. This is fine but you can't have both. - While hard drive costs continue to fall, what is the total amount of storage that megapixel camera bank system needs? what does that cost (not the hard drive, the end user cost for the entire storage system)? Banks with 16 channels can easily get away with 500GB for analog camera using CIF. With megapixel cameras, you could easily require 4GB or more. I have worked on deals with dozens of banks and almost all of them have tight budgets for video surveillance systems. A megapixel based system is certainly going to cost a thousand if not thousands more. I am skeptical how many will pay the premium, especially in the light of today's economy.

Almost no bank uses megapixel cameras for 2 reasons: - The cost of the cameras are too high - The cost of the storage is too high - Bandwidth problems for remote viewing (most banks have 256 Kb/s or less connections - even low frame rate megapixel cameras will create significant problems here) I am not sure what type of budget the bank you are dealing with has. For most banks, the budgets are tight and won't accommodate megapixel cameras. March and Verint (Lanex NetBox) are the two biggest banking DVR providers (by sales). I don't know enough about your particular situation to make a strong recommendations but I would encourage you to consider these factors.

Sony and Bosch are claiming to release products by the end of 2009. A lot can happen between then and now, good and bad. We probably all need to wait and see what happens next. One related element to look for is what companies release support for the rival PSIA specification.

Hi Everyone, I released a new whitepaper on How to Design Video Surveillance Systems. For those of you who are experts, I'd be interested in your feedback on improvements. For those of you getting started in CCTV/video surveillance, it might be of use to you. The key questions I cover in the paper are: * What type of cameras should I use? * How should I connect cameras to video management systems? * What type of video management system should I use? * What type of storage should I use? * What type of video analytics should I use? * How should I view my surveillance video? * How should I integrate video with my other systems? Cheers, John

Note: It's a draft specification right now and it's going to take months for anyone to begin implement it and probably years before it becomes an official standard Also, there is another group, PSIA, working on the same thing for further discussion see: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/onvif_psia_ip_camera_standards

I think what's going to be most impacted is big new projects. A lot of large organizations are going to face significant cash constraints that will force them to delay new projects. We are already seeing this in banking and retail. With all the impending school budget costs, you are likely to see that in 2009. I have a write-up on this topic for those interested: http://ipvideomarket.info/report/ip_video_market_forecast_2009

I have completed a beta test of Ocularis and released a review with my findings. OnSSI Ocularis Review Let me know if you have feedback or questions. I thought this review might be useful to readers of this thread.

People ask me frequently for advice on product selection. I recommend cctvforum.com and a few other sites. I see sourcesecurity.com gets a fair bit of publicity and bills itself as 'the complete industry guide'. I tried it out but it seems cumbersome and incomplete (did searches for ip cameras and ip video software). It also appears that the listing are structured to benefit advertisers. Anyone have experience or positive things about using sourcesecurity.com? According to the Internet measuring services, thousands of people go to the site each month, so someone must like it. Best, John

Hi Larry, I enjoy the forums a lot. A couple of ideas: Updates on New Topics One feature that would help me participate more is a way for new topics to be pushed to me. For instance, when a new blog is posted on a blog site, my RSS reader displays it to me, allowing me to stay informed without having to remember to visit the site. I would like a similar feed for sections on CCTVforum. Do you already support such a feature? Blog A blog would be helpful for bringing people back. You and the other admins could discuss topical issues and reference active discussions that readers might find useful. Top Active Topics List One challenge I have is that the topics are divided into 20 different sections. It is time consuming to check each section. On the other hand, there may be a very interesting post that I may miss because I don't check each one. If you could have a list of 'what's hot' across the forums this would help people find, read and participate in the best discussions. Weekly Newsletter I do not know if you have a newsletter but I have never received one. However, I assume you have thousands of e-mail addresses from the registered users. A weekly newsletter would be a great way to keep people informed and engaged in the community. You could give an update, link to hot topics, etc. Marketing experts often recommend this as the number one tool in building engaged visitors. I hope this help. Please let me know if I can provide more input. Cheers, John