jhonovich

Thanks, Scorpion! I just added a tutorial on What is an NVR?. There seems to be a lot of confusion / debate on what makes an NVR an NVR. I thought this discussion might help highlight the issues involved. Best, John

Axis focuses on providing cameras and not NVR software. Look to an NVR specialist for that. Panasonic and Sony are two well known IP camera manufacturers.

ak357 - A 1.3 megapixel image is 800Kb (according to iqeye data sheet) If you stream at 5fps, that is 4Mb/s; at 10fps, that is 8Mb/s, at 30 fps, that is 24Mb/s. This is assuming you use no exclusion zones. 5 fps is usually sufficient unless you are trying to capture slight of hand or other super fast, subtle actions. Since this is an outdoor area, 5 fps should be fine and that would leave you at no more than 4Mb/s. si_kungs: I think you need to hire a consultant or integrator to determine what you need to do about the existing network. It depends on many factors, where the cameras are, where the network drops are, what the current equipment is, etc. Axis is the market leader. Vivotek is a low cost alternative. There are numerous NVRs. Since you are doing a seaport, you should consider if you are going to use analytics, mapping integrtion, etc. This will help in your selection process.

Thanks, that makes sense. As for your recommendation of dual 1/2 inch imagers, what manufacturers offer this? I see Mobotix does but does anyone else? I am trying to get a sense of what my options would be.

Most IP camera companies makes decoders. Once you determine the camera you want to use, check what decoders they offer. Be careful when taking an ip camera feed and decoding it to analog, especially after transmitting over a wireless connection. The video quality could be significantly reduced. I have seen this first hand and it was not pretty. If you have to do this, make sure you are streaming the ip camera feed at 4CIF and have 2 Mb/s of bandwidth available per stream on the wireless link. This will help ensure that the video quality is not significantly damaged.

I have been doing a bunch of research on using 360 degree / panoramic cameras. You can read the full report at: http://ipvideomarket.info/review/show/116 Basically, I came into the research being very skeptical. The ipix really soured me on the whole technology. What I learned is that the resolution is a lot better, the cameras are significantly cheaper and now that IP cameras are widely supported, it's actually pretty compelling. Of course, there are lots of places and situations I would not use it for but now, at least, it seems like it's become a serious option. What has your experience been with panoramic or 360 cameras?

Optimizing storage efficiency and duration is a frequent cctv / video surveillance topic. I put together a survey of DVR / NVR storage optimization measures. I think most people who frequent these forums know those techniques well, but for those who don't, it might help. Below is a summary of the 8 topics I review: # Basic Motion Analytics # Advanced Video Analytics # Motion Exclusion Zones # Data Aging # Recording Schedule # CODEC Selection # Dual Streaming # Storage Clusters What others would you add or change?

if you go megapixel, consider the iqeye sentinel series (http://www.iqeye.com/iqeyesentinelseries.html) which is designed for the outdoors Seaports are generally quite big so you are probably best served with megapixel cameras as it will cut down total camera count, reduce installation costs and provide broader coverage you should go gigabit for 79 ip cameras, let's say they are megapixel and stream at 5 Mb/s, that's a total of almost 400 Mb/s just some initial thoughts, let me know if you have follow up questions or comments

Jevs, A lot of boxes meet that spec but many are quite expensive. Do you have any budget ranges you are trying to stay within? This would help in offering suggestions. Best, John

I have never used that product and my comments are only going to be speculation. That being said, if the same issue is happening on 2 units, I agree with you that it is likely software. It looks like a recording scheduling issue. Could it be that by default some channels are not set up for recording or not set up for certain times of the day? This would explain the problem though I can't understand why anyone would set such a default. Check the configuration for any scheduling settings and see if somehow the schedule has these cameras not recording for that period.

Both Lumenera and Arecontvision claim to be releasing megapixel cameras with H.264. I don't know if they are currently released yet but if not, it's coming soon.

I know from time to time there are questions about using wireless for cctv/video. I put together a tutorial on common design issues on wireless video networks. http://ipvideomarket.info/reviews/show/100 The tutorial focuses on IP video systems where you are trying to deploy multiple camera on a wireless system. If you only need 1 or 2 cameras, you can use PTP links that have been recommended in multiple existing posts. If you want to dozens of cameras and it's all IP, this tutorial should help address key issues. Please let me know if you have any feedback or questions.

No, I don't have anything written on analog. That being said, if I am using an analog camera and I only need to have 1 or 2 wireless connections, I prefer using analog wireless systems. They are fairly inexpensive and less complex to set up. The growth trend today seems heavily towards IP because IP allows for bigger wireless systems than possible with analog. Do let me know me know if I can help on any analog wireless questions. Best, John

To the extent that crime is or will be increasing, the value of security should increase. However, I am not sure that this will help sales of new CCTV systems. Recessions usually result in companies decreasing capital expenditures. As a new system or an upgraded system is certainly a capital expenditure, I think there will be pressure by many to make due with what they currently have. Thoughts?

Have you read a vendor's literature and wondered if there ROI calculations are accurate? Have you been asked to make an ROI calculation to justify a purchase? I notice that there is a lot of talk about ROI calculations but not enough good information on how to calculate one. I wrote a review to help: http://ipvideomarket.info/review/show/83 Here are the 4 main principles I identify: - Understand the alternative to this proposed investment - Understand the full cost - Understand the technological deficiencies of this investment - Verify that operational assumptions are correct Do you provide ROIs to customers? If so, how do you do it? Have there been any issues you have seen with it? Best, John

This is the funniest thing I have read in a while: http://www.neweraassociates.com/html/research_art_37.htm "Frankly, at the low end of the market, I am at a loss to understand what that value proposition will be in the digital/IP future. Especially considering the days of pulling coaxial cable are giving way to wireless technologies." Coax cabling is going away! Wireless is taking over! This is what happens when sales people become consultants. I am kind of speechless about how anyone could make such a statement. It scares me that decision makers could be listening to this.

What do you guys think about IT guys coming into security and all this talk about IT transforming security? I keep hearing that IT is wiping out the security integrators and IT is going to run security management. I think it's absurd: http://ipvideomarket.info/review/show/13 What do you guys think?

Cieffe has a 2 megapixel PTZ. 'I think PTZs are better if someone is monitoring the system. Megapixels are better when the system is just for recording." I might modify that statement: Megapixel is better when the system is just recording or when the area you want to monitor is not very deep. PTZs are better when the area for live monitoring is deep. By deep, I mean how far from the camera do you need to monitor. Do you need to see something 100 feet away or 300 feet away. For instance if a 16 MP camera has an effective 8x zoom relative to a traditional PTZ, if you need to identify a person 80 feet away from the camera, this should work even in a live monitoring situation. However, if you need to monitor a person 250 feet away, the 23x mechanical PTZ will work but the megapixel will not. I calculate that a 23x analog PTZ can see about 3x farther than even a 16 MP camera. Say the analog PTZ has a focal length range of 3.6~82.8 mm. A 16 MP camera could provide an equivalent focal length range of 3.6~28.8. The PTZ would have a maximum focal length almost 3x longer than the 16 MP camera. I hear a lot of discussion on replacing PTZs with megapixel but it looks like the depth of area you are covering is a major consideration in making this decision. Can someone please review my numbers? Any thoughts on the tradeoffs?

thewireguys recently made 2 points: - compare costs for standard definition IP cameras with analog - price savings for replacing 12 analog cameras with (1) 3 MP camera For cost comparison to Axis, take the Axis 210 which is a mid-line IP camera. Compare it to any Pelco, Panasonic with similar characteristics. Using online prices from Google, the Axis 210 costs about $400 - $450 while the Pelco/Panasonic etc costs $250 - $300. That's not a trivial difference especially when you have a lot of cameras. For price savings of 3 MP cameras: While a 3 MP camera offers 12x the resolution of an analog camera, that does not ensure that 3 MP camera will replace 12 analog cameras. Rory already mentioned issues such as walls. In general, you will have lots of practical issues where you never will be replacing lots of cameras. Often, you won't replace any. This is often because regardless of the resolution, you need certain angles of incident on the view. For instance, you often use 2 cameras in a hallway, looking in each direction. Even with a 16 megapixel camera, you would not eliminate one of the cameras. Two cameras are needed because the security objective is to see the front of the person's head. With only 1 camera, you will never see the face of people going in one of the directions. I do think there are cases where megapixel cameras reduce camera count but I think those cases will not be common due to other design issues like I have just cited.

Gold plating means to use advanced technology that does not provide a commensurable business benefit. In other words, to use new technology because it's new and 'better', not because it offers clear financial benefits. Let's say I propose 3 megapixel cameras instead of analog ones. That doubles the price of the camera and potentially triples or quadruples the cost of storage. The total cost of the proposal may increase 50% or more. Increasing costs to improve video quality without generating a business benefit is by definition gold plating. Perhaps you believe you are generating a business benefit which is fine but please explain so I can understand better.

Agreed. But as you said, your system was $4,000 more without installation. You could buy tools, connectors, extra cabling and labor for any potential ground loops for a fraction of $4,000. Also, if you had a CCTV tech on site, he would have the tools readily and could have done this job in a day, less than a day? Please don't get me wrong. I agree with you that there are benefits. I am just not sure if they outweigh the costs for many applications.

I believe we are selling CCTV to provide an ROI to our customer. Delivering such an ROI requires us to understand the full spectrum of needs and costs of our customers. Certainly, the customer decides but I need to determine which choices have the greatest potential of providing a business benefit. If I simply choose video quality, I may designing a gold plated system that the customer cannot afford. I may also lose the business to a competitor that better appreciates the full breadth of my customer's issues. Specifically, on the video quality part, I am being serious. Unlike for consumers, most security managers are not concerned about how 'nice' the video looks. To the extent that video quality reduces losses or camera count, video quality is valuable. Otherwise, most security managers, in my experience, will view it as a waste of money.

Many DVRs allow you to adjust color balance, brightness, contrast, etc of analog cameras. Essentially they are adjusting their built in encoders. That being said, I agree that IP cameras offer a greater range of settings to adjust. The other question I have is even with IP cameras remote setting capability, you really still need someone on site to determine positioning, placement, lens adjustment, etc.

That's 2 really interesting stories. I am a little surprised that the customer paid $4000 more. I assume this is a small or medium size job so for that's not a trivial amount. What I do not understand is what is the actual benefit of the better resolution? You can get 4CIF from analog cameras and a mid-tier DVR. That's not as good as Axis but reasonably close. How does the customer earn back the $4,000 from better video quality? As for pre-configuring the IP cameras and NVR software, could you not do similar with analog cameras and a DVR. Set the DVR to DHCP, connect remotely and do the same configurations. Plus, you eliminate configuration for the camera. Are you suggesting that eliminating the coax cabling was part of the benefit? These are good points you are making and I am interested in learning more. Best, John

i think http://sourcesecurity.com/ would work they maintain a catalog of products and tables of features it's good to get a basic feel of what's available and if you need to quickly gets specs